whyhellothere

.Wearing flowers in Sachkandh, really? I thought it was only hindu gods who wear these in their heavens/realms, and I thought only sikhs who have meditated on naam are allowed to enter sachkandh?

^These things are all Useful things and necessary for sikhi. I'm talking about things that are not necessary that could be avoided being taken into darbar sahib, things that do not help further our sikhi. I'm not asking for leather to be banned I'm just stating my views which I'm not asking everyone to agree with.

I agree with you!

I think one day he should visit and be made welcome and asked to stop killing innocent civilians and people in the name of oil and to stop allowing bigshot businessmen rule America and it's decisions.

Right mate, now if we take leather shoes off surely we can be bothered enough not to wear leather jackets if possible, out of respect? Imagine if someone took a pair shoes in a bag into Darbar Sahib by accident. Do you think they would just leave them in the bag or take them out asap? Even though the shoes are not being worn I think there's still an element of disrespect bringing slaughtered animal parts into the gurdwarra when it could be avoided mate.

My grandparent had a religious tattoo and the reason for it was that every time they saw it they remembered babaji. I likened this to the fact that whenever I look down and see my kara I think of god or something to do with sikhi, and anything that reminds us of Babaji and leads us to his meditation can't be that bad seeing as in this age it is so rare of one to think of God. A sikh tattoo in an indecent place is another story though and would be pretty ridiculous and weird not to mention evil!:wacko:

You cannot be serious! Do you realise you sound insane?!!! Screens adding historical value LOL, and you just added reasons they shouldn't be installed. Nothing as major as this should happen without the backing of the panth, knowing all of the things not approved by the panth you seem willing to add another thing to the list. You really have a nerve coming on here backing a project you know the majority of the panth will oppose, your feeble attempts at backing this completely outrageous project will not stand against the panth. You obviously do not believe in democracy or true worship, if you did you would not want to ruin the sacredness and peace of the holiest place on earth and that makes two of you, Indira Gandhi and yourself.

^^^I take my shoes off before sitting in the gurdwarra out of respect and I don;t wear leather to the gurdwara out of respect. p.s Try sitting in a gurdwara with shoes on and see what happens to you mate.

Whatever mate, I've said what I had to say, goodbye.

Okay so guess I won;t be getting many z's tonight. No I will not contact a sant, you're the one with the serving problem so you have the honour. Paranoid because you went on about 'next you'll be saying this, next you'll be saying that' when I most certainly will not. I still don't agree with you and never will but I'll always love the guru and nothing you say will ever change that. But I'm actually very tired of talking to you now so go make the change you want to see in gurdwarras instead of talking to me about it okay. Goodbye, rab rakh.

Lol now you're just being paranoid, next I won't be making silly proposals. I know very well the traditional way of serving langar and I also know there have been exceptions. A sant would uphold the honour of his Guru no matter what, so don't give me rubbish about a sant not bringing this up if they opposed it. Also you seem to believe it IS a big issue and worth arguing about or we wouldn't be having this (very tedious) conversation. If you believe that I and others are doing nindya by serving this way surely you'd want to do something about it and at least bring the issue up in the gurdwarra, it wouldn't be a big deal. Like I said go for it, noones stopping you, if it's so wrong, make it right and go and stand up for what you believe in. In your eyes the Gurus wishes are being dishonoured so go and make a change. p.s goodluck and goodnight! I'm off to bed and really hope thats the last of our convo seeing as we'll never see eye to eye and I'm sick of posting now.

ummmmmmmmmmm.................................. ok! :huh:

I feel sick!:o

AAHH just be careful because most people would associate a fallen angel with the christian devil lucifer (satan) an angel who fell from gods grace in chrsitian beliefs! from wikipedia: A fallen angel, in Christian theology, is an angel who has been exiled or banished from Heaven. Often such banishment is a punishment for disobeying or rebelling against God (see War in Heaven). lol sorry just thought I'd write that for future reference and if you meant to use the term in this way just ignore me!

I would avoid wearing leathers to the gurdwarras but if it was worn in form of a jacket or something, leave it at the door with the shoes I'd say out of respect. One big thing are leather handbags, I'm not sure how that issue could be avoided as elderly ladies also carry leather handbags. And then there are belts.....

I would say the twelve signs are the signs of astrology, astrologers were around during the gurus times and this is the state of someone whos mind is not attached to the signs of astrology.

Waiting patiently in turn for the gurus langar is also a way to kill the minds ego. People on here have been talking about waiting in turn like it is such a bad thing but a humble person would never even see this as an issue. You assume that serving a sitting sangat is the only way, and yes it is an assumption because it was never written in stone, I have asked you to come up with stable evidence it has been and you have not. I don;t see any sant babas or brahm gianis complaining about it or true saints that it is wrong so please excuse me if I don't listen to you only five. The gurus lived in difficult times and I am more than certain that langar was not served in the traditional way at some point perhaps during war, on the go or when an elderly person wished to serve but was not able to bend down or walk too far. If this subject stirs up such great emotion in yourself why not consult a saint/ brahmgiani or a gurmukh. Why not do something about it? I'm not standing in your way nor is anyone else here, I may not agree with you but that is irrelevant because you believe you are right. There is most certainly no way on earth you will ever change the way I feel so go and do what you have to do and fight for what you believe is right.

^Surely not when it hurts to walk and bend over and serve food, and to take it easy is what the doctor prescribed.

Hi there, I did a search and found this page on Sikhiwiki. http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Soul Also found these exerpts: -The Sikhs believe in the evolution of the Soul and the principle of reincarnation. The soul is believed to be a tiny spark of God’s light "detached" from the Almighty. This spark is separated from God and wants to become pure so that it can "reunite" with God. For this to happen, the Soul has to evolve and purify itself so that this reunification with the Supreme Soul can take place. And: Sikhism believes in the immortality of the soul. The devotee has no fear of the pangs of death. In fact he welcomes death, because it gives him a chance for the merger into Divinity. The evil person, however, dreads death. For him, it will lead to the unending cycle of birth and death. After death, man comes to the next birth according to what he deserves. If he has been wicked and evil, he takes birth in the lower species. If he has done good deeds, he takes birth in a good family. The cycle of birth and death keeps the soul away from Divinity. It can merge with God, only if the individual, by spiritual effort, has amassed the capital of the Name(the Holy spirit as understood by Christians) and thus lives with the Holy Spirit. Guru Arjan in the Sukhmani dwells on the sad plight of the soul which is not endowed with the Name. The soul in its lonely march through darkness can only find sustenance in the word of God. Otherwise it feels the weariness and pain of isolation. The soul, Jiva, is a part of God. It is deathless like Him. Before creation, it lived with God. After Creation it takes bodily forms according to His Will. The soul is, however, nourished by virtue and meditation on "The name". The transmigration of the soul can come to an end by meditation and divine grace. Hope it helps.

No Satguru Nanak went to mecca to try and make some of the deluded muslims there understand that god is not contained within the Kaaba as many thought at the time. Just as Hindus in India had thought their gods and goddesses were contained in statues and pictures etc. Langar sends a message of equality, love and compassion. It helps the needy and serving the sangat is a very good deed. However a sikh cannot find god just by serving langar, in fact a sikh never has to serve langar a day in their life and still find god through naam jaapna and love for god which is said to be the greatest service to god, above all other service. It is also said that other works are fruitless without the name of god, Naam which is the only boat to take us across the darkness of this age. You cannot find god by dipping in HOLY AMRIT(not a pond), the ONLY way to find god in this age is through the Naam. Please read and understand gurbani before making assumptions. We go there to have darshan of the Guru, not a tombstone

We do eat langar as equals, sitting on the floor while being served doesn't automatically make you an equal, it's the act of eating with others which shows equality. And that's where our opinions differ, you see I and many others believe it does and that is why langar is served like this in so many gurdwaras. The majority of the sangat who are okay with langar being served at the same level are not crazy, do you really think an act opposed to our gurus ideals and teachings would be allowed in so many gurdwaras? But like I said if you want to change things around by all means go ahead, put the effort in to make the change you believe in and if it works then that's okay aswell.

And I totally agree with you. I saw some people a few weeks back in a Gurdwarra who were clearly in need of a free meal and it warmed my heart to see them receiving food from Guru Ji's kitchen. I wish more people like that would come in because that kind of seva is really great.