VanHelsingh

A worrying trend I've seen develop over the past few years is how Baisakhi (or is it Vaisakhi?) is being commercialised almost into a 'Christmas' type festival. The spiritual and religious aspect is being diluted by the masses so that only the Gurudwaras really care about its religious significance, whilst people use it as an excuse for a party. You've got Vaisakhi cards being handed out by some people who don't know or don't give a darn about what happened on that day in 1699. You've got people organising Vaisakhi parties where I doubt they sit around debating about the ethics and standards of the Khalsa - I guess these parties involve alcohol? I've never heard of one but I'm guessing there's such a thing as a 'Vaisakhi Gig' too? :6

This is the kind of stuff that enrages me. I've not been to any of these Sikhi events since I was a teenager. I just pay my respects to Guru Granth Sahib Ji, listen to some paath or Gurbani before the crowds turn up, and I just go home or stay behind at the Gurudwara. I can't be around such people as they make a mockery of Sikhi. Look at it this way - you've got the Panj Pyaare leading the procession at a Nagar Kirtan - then a few feet behind you've got these characters pulling these kind of stunts. :rolleyes:

As far as I know, Guru Ji said that striking out in self-defence was the only way such actions could be justified. Obviously you could argue there is justification for what they put you through, but its not worth it especially if the fella in question reports it to the police. Then you'll be a Sikh with a criminal record which is never a good thing. In your mind its such a huge issue but to others, it'll seem petty and opportunistic. I do understand about revenge and handing out "justice" to those that deserve it, but brother, if you took revenge for something like this it would only make you look foolish. I'm pretty sure you'd feel good about it but long-term, its not worth the hassle. There is one person in my life who I dream of destroying with my bare fists, every second of the day. Its eating me up inside. Like you I think of situations where I could hide in the shadows, and then drag the paapi into an alley and just go for it. Anyway I've come to learn that I should leave such decisions to Waheguru. If I deserve peace from having my tormentor punished, God will punish that individual for me. I know its easy to say this (trust me), but if you have belief in Waheguru then it should be a bit easier to leave everything in His hands. There's a saying in Punjabi that divine justice isn't like a dog, i.e. if you kick a dog it attacks you in return immediately. Divine justice takes its time and only arrives when Waheguru decrees it should. Its not a knee-je_rk reaction like a dog-bite. You know what I mean? Anyway that's what I think.

Does this really happen? :waheguru: My word. Proof if any was needed that this truly is the age of Kalyug. :sad:

Oh, ok. I haven't got a clue how these kind of events work, and the culture around them. I guess this "musician" took things a bit too far. I don't even think I want to watch the above YouTube video, just in-case I put my fist through my laptop screen. Although Southhall Youth, the topic title is a bit forceful if you know what I mean - I'm sure you know not all our mothers and sisters are like this. I'm just saying some might be offended that this 'truth' as you've stated suggests they're all like this.

I've not got Facebook so can't watch the video, but even by the description its pretty horrifying. Do you know who produced the video - was it a Sikh? If so, he should be ashamed of himself. Or it could be a satirical piece on the state of our religion? Although I guess it wouldn't be going out on music channels if it was.

I think one of the great injustices of this world is the perception of women as the 'fairer' or 'weaker' sex. As soon as the Bible stated that Eve was created from Adam's rib instead of being created from the dust like Adam, I think this cemented perceptions on equality. Whether we believe in this creation story or not is beside the point - my argument is that even the so-called "leading religion" of the world has this idea of male superiority within the pages of its holy book. This Christian creation story gives the impression that God favours the male as he created Adam first - yet we know that Waheguru is not fallible to such human leanings. That can't have helped issues at all in my opinion. Physically, one might argue women are weaker but intellectually, spiritually, etc., I firmly believe this is so very far from the truth. Its not just in our Sikh society that women are sometimes dismissed (which they shouldn't be, especially considering how our Gurus elevated woman to equal status) as almost secondary to men. You only have to look at the western world's portrayal of women as sexual objects or one-dimensional beings to see this. A great illusion the western world has afforded women is that they are not inferior to men. However its the women that are expected to degrade themselves to catch the attention of men, by dressing provocatively (amongst other more subtle issues), etc., - how is that equality? Our own Punjabi or even the South Asian society has its own issues with women and their perceived duties and roles in the world. You only have to look at the suffocating treatment of Muslim women at the hands of their males, to understand how desperate the situation is. The sad thing is these Muslim women are enablers, i.e. they actually give the men a free-pass to mistreat them this way, because somehow they see it as their duty to their faith to be subordinate to their men. Obviously not all of them are like that, but we've all heard of so many instances in their culture about their mistreatment of women. Obvioulsy we Sikhs have similar (albeit not exactly the same) issues too - but our issues are more down to the Punjabi/Asian culture. If we'd taken to heart what our Gurus preached and practiced, Sikhs would be exempt from such nonsense. Also I'm not criticising other faiths and cultures - I'm just giving examples to make a point. Its difficult to change perceptions that have been in existence for thousands of years. I'm not saying there's no use in trying - I'm just stating that people the world over have an entrenched mind-set when it comes to these kind of equality issues. What the answer is I don't know. But from a Sikhi point of view, the only course of action that one could take is create that link with Waheguru, and don't allow anyone to dictate what kind of relationship you should have with Sikhi. Have a Sikhi relationship with Waheguru, not a Sikhi-female or Sikhi-male relationship. Look at our Mai Bhago - now there was an extraordinary Sikh. I know she's a rare soul but you only have to look at how she wasn't rebuked by Guru Ji at the time. Not everyone can be a Mai Bhago but the example set by her is there for everyone to see and admire. Obviously there are things that only women can do - like give birth to children, etc. Those duties shouldn't be neglected in the pursuit of equality. It would be foolish to claim otherwise. As for sociological roles of men and women in their homes and society in general, well that's a different debate. :lol:

Whoever opens a Guru ghar in order to make a profit from it for personal gain, seriously needs to sort their priorities out. I know the Gurudwara won't run on air and water, but to reduce it to a money-making enterprise is very cynical and......weird.

Why are people resorting to threats? How will intimidation and such actions help further the cause of those who wish to halt further instances of beadbi at other Gurudwaras? I hope nobody on here is partaking in such activities.

This is why we need to be vigilant and in some ways, smarter than these people who wish to pull these stunts. I don't 'smarter' mean in a devious or under-hand way, but in a conscientious and aware manner whereby any contradictions must be exposed and exploited. Those who fly loose and ready with the tenets of Sikhi should be made aware of their mistakes.

Don't enter their vicinity. Lecture halls are quite large most of the time - find a seat away from them. Of course, don't act as if you're running scared, but stand your ground and don't encourage any behaviour like this. The expression on your face should be enough to signify to someone not to approach you with bad intentions. You are there to study, and this maybe an unpopular notion in these 'free' times, but drinking coffee or socialising with girls (even "platonically") is not the kind of behaviour one would expect from a Gursikh - not that I'm saying you are doing this. I'm just throwing it out there. Forgive me, brother. I'm not dictating what you should do in life. Obviously I'm not asking you to alienate yourself which might cause further problems. Just find some the company of more 'suitable' friends and associates.

Ha! I think they've stitched themselves up on this one. You're right - it does say Sikh culture. I think the people who wrote these terms probably thought nobody was going to be able to differentiate between Sikh and Punjabi culture - or nobody cared. I mean is there such a thing as 'Sikh culture'? Shouldn't it be 'Sikh faith'?

I'm shocked that such issues even need debating. As our American friends say "Its a no brainer".

Obviously the purity of our religion irks some people, so they have to resort to lies in order to make themselves feel better about their own religion.

@ only five - You are wise indeed. I hope one day Waheguru will bless me with the same (and with His grace, greater) levels of knowledge, humility and understanding that you so clearly possess. I also see you still like the -1 button too. :lol: (I jest).

What the heck? I think we all know which 'group' was up to mischief. I checked the page as soon as you posted your topic, and it seemed to be in order. Best to keep an eye out on this one.

A poor comparison, exaggerated to make a point. If somebody is as fragile so that even the merest negative thought will bring their life to a standstill, then I dread to think how such a person would be able to survive in the world on a day-to-day basis. I am referring to your example above, i.e. negative thoughts, not tragedy after tragedy. Remember the original poster seems to be alluding to a problem with physical lethargy. As far as we know there is no mental issue (from what the person in question has told us so far). The original poster is not building a spiritual base. Yes, you could argue that she should be. But then she could be doing a lot of things she isn't currently doing. She is merely trying to gather up enough energy so that life's duties can be fulfiled. Yes I do agree that any adverse and unreasonable negatvity is never positive or helpful, however it is impossible to escape such emotions unless one completely cuts all ties with the world. Even then the only negativity one would experience is the type that originates from our own mind. It goes without saying that unless we have total control over our senses and emotions, such thoughts will remain. Yes I agree that Guru Sahib says avoid sangat which does not draw out positivity in oneself. But he also didn't say shut yourself off from everyone. If that were the case, then interacting with people would be a big 'no-no', because not everyone you meet in your life will possess those positive traits. Again you make the assumption that the original poster is suffering some kind of mental malady which is pure speculation on your part. But I will say this - if one is so mentally fragile that something as detached and distant as a news report (which may or may not be negative) will render a person unable to function, then how is that person expected to cope in the outside world? Like I said before, the original poster is - seemingly - not in this state of mind. Alcohol addiction = watching news. Not really - not even for the most sensitive person in the world. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions in order to tie this problem with your understanding of the issue. What I will say is this - Naam is the key. Its not a quick-fix or a 'shot in the arm' but its the best solution.

I still say a few minutes of news isn't the issue here. The outside world is full of negativity and terrible people - should we lock ourselves away from the world and never leave our homes, in case this negativity harms us? Of course not. The news isn't always about tragedies. Most of it tells us about issues (or potential issues) that affect our everyday life. It just depends what news channel you watch. :D And I'm not saying 'Don't Do Paath' (in-case my words are interpreted that way). I'm saying there is no provable link between feeling out-of-sorts physically with watching the news. Of course if news is the problem, you can just read it on the internet.

This kind of stuff depresses me. How on earth are these people coming to the fore? Where do they get their warped philosophies from? I don't get it.

:lol: - That would be so funny if it wasn't so paranoid. Although I wouldn't put anything past these anti-Sikh groups. I dread to think what the couple thought of Sikhs after being refused somewhere to stay. Not a good impression to make on people. Sad news.

A wonderful sentiment.

I know this is off-topic but I'll say this: I believe Sikhi is the only way to combat these nefarious influences as you've mentioned above. The reach of these dark organisations are terrifying, and yes I also believe that our current leaders have been compromised by these dark forces. As for the solution? Only Waheguru knows.

@ whyhellothere - I've read a lot about them but do they even really exist? I mean honestly. I was referring to the double standards of Western governments and their collusion with the Rupert Murdoch-owned media, although there is a lot of evidence for the existence of the Illuminati, etc. I dunno - it seems a bit far fetched to me. Yet I can't stop reading about these theories!!! :lol: I sometimes wonder if these groups are aware of the 'Raj Karega Khalsa' prediction (is it a prediction or just a metaphorical statement?). Would they ever let the world reach a state where the Khalsa would have to return and basically take over the Middle East and South East Asia? What would happen then - would we fight with Rome (the Vatican)? So many questions.

@ SunSingh - There's nothing wrong with watching the news. When someone asks a question about current affairs, better to have an answer than looking gormless and ignorant. That's a great way to make an impression on someone, who'll probably walk-away thinking Sikhs are dumb if you can't hold a conversation with someone about what's going on in the world(!) If you'd said stop watching nonsense TV programmes, like soaps and dramas, etc, then I'd agree.