VanHelsingh

I highly doubt Gill is a Sikh in the sense that you and I are Sikhs. He won't be losing any sleep over such summons (which will never happen). To people like Gill, institutions such as the Akal Takhat Sahib are meaningless. Of course, that's ignoring the fact the current-day Akal Takhat Sahib have no power to do such things, outside of issuing Hukamnamas which only the observant are aware of, and issuing siropas to individuals who don't deserve them.

Exactly. Plus, proliferation of such peaceful tactics (i.e. making use of the "weapons" the modern world provides us) will win us a lot of friends around the world compared to violence. However, that's not to discount the fundamental Sikh warrior spirit that is central to the Sikh way. I just think we should be willing to explore other avenues of engagement that will allow us to confound and surprise our adversaries. On a related note it is disappointing to hear whenever Sikh issues hit the headlines in such a major way, the discussion has a habit of finding its way to Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and almost always in a negative light. Those who have in-depth knowledge of those times when Sant Jarnail Singh was active should not be shy in coming forward and presenting the true picture regarding who he was, and exactly what he was about. I'm sure many Sikhs are tired of being labelled so-called terrorist sympathisers because of the affinity they feel for Sant Jarnail Singh. The amount of misinformation about him is absolutely mind-boggling. The Indians have done an absolute first-rate job of assassinating his character. They really shouldn't be allowed to expound such blatant and bare-faced lies. They've turned him into a bogey-man to end all debates and discussions whenever his name is mentioned. This must change.

Anyone else think the phrase 'Sadha Haq' will become a catchphrase beyond what the movie has to show? It's a pretty good slogan... :biggrin2:

@ ReformedSingh - It's very heartening to read about your transformation. You don't get many people admitting their past misdeeds, and then attempting to turn things around in such a dramatic manner so fair play to that.

Yet when the time comes for another election, those back home will vote him in regardless, and this movie situation will be forgotten. I don't fully buy the line about people in Panjab being in complete ignorance about the true situation around them. Most people have enough contact with family and friends overseas to not be completely blind to the game being played with resident Panjabis. Whilst I don't underestimate the affect of police and state intervention when resident Panjabis criticise the state govt and its policies, those who plead utter disbelief are surely not being on-the-level. It's more of a case of not wishing to see as opposed to unable to see.

It's certainly a sensitive area that's for sure. There must be so many permutations of Sikhs according to their beliefs, as well as what they know and believe outside of the religion, and how they bring those concepts to assist them in the understanding of Sikh history and theology. I personally wouldn't want to go the way of complete doubt and incredulity meaning one's shardaa for Guru Sahib goes out the window, Equally I'm also not one to encourage embellishments and bells and whistles that, whilst serving to increase the standing of the Sikh faith in the eyes of others (as well as increasing confidence amongst its own followers), are nevertheless untrue, and therefore in direct contradiction to the ways of the Creator as presented to us in Gurbani.

There is an element of the above I suppose, i.e. early Sikh scholars and scribes not wishing Sikhi to be left behind in the 'miracle' stakes. But then where does it end? You could end up not believing anything that occured in Sikh history just because it isn't plausible to our minds. I always look at it in the following way: our Guru Sahibs ultimate concern was with (and is) the Truth in all respects regardless of whether we agree or not. For learned parchaaraks and kathavachaks to preach to the sangat - for many hundreds of years - about things that didn't happen just because they inflate the reputations and achievements of the Sikh faith would not be acceptable. and wouldn't be allowed to continue for very long if such occurences were not the absolute Truth. I believe the cosmic order would put an end to any masaleh and adornments added to what actually occured if such saakhis weren't true. Of course to reach such a conclusion there needs to be a slight leap of faith, but then that's what religion is about I suppose. There is also a danger of going the other way completely into mysticism and miracles so that the day-to-day lives of the Gurus and their respective achievements on a social, political and human level are overlooked in favour of the fantastic and magical. Eventually I think this aspect of Sikhi is what is dissuading some of the more pragmatic, dare I say 'realist' type of individuals from devoting themselves to the faith. These aren't atheists or anything of the sort, but Sikhs growing up in an environment where facts and education have been given paramount importance over myths. Basically they can't relate to tales of Gods, prophets, and the like, so they switch-off and proceed to group Sikhi in with all the other faiths that have similar accounts of miraculous events, etc. Personally I think that would be a huge injustice to Sikhi and its doctrines, especially considering my earlier post where I made the point of highlighting how young our faith is, and we occasionally behave as if it's thousands of years old, as opposed to the main bulk of our history still being relatively recent in terms of what was occuring in other parts of the world at the time.

What an awesome video! The 9th minute is rather pertinent, i.e. the 'Knowledge vs Faith' debate that many like me struggle with. I always try to listen to Bhai Sahib's katha on the radio each morning, and he really does have a great approach to explaining concepts. Thanks for uploading this.

It's been banned in the one place where it was needed the most. The rest is just preaching to the converted. Jazzy B aside the movie has clearly rattled a few cages. The makers need to capitalise on this ban and make a huge deal of it --- IN PANJAB not overseas.

How can you hate classical music when the raags used in old-school Gurbani have their roots in the classic raag system? It's like an artist neglecting to study form and anatomy and then wishes to start drawing superheroes from the off. :giggle: You'd be a convincing performer if you knew the theory behind the practice. Otherwise you'd be the equivalent of karaoke singer belting out tunes without really knowing the science behind it. There's many of those around. Don't go for the quick-fix, instead put some graft in. It'll be a lot more rewarding. Ultimately it's your choice of course.

On the other hand we Sikhs do have a habit of talking-down our history as well as the figures to be found in our pantheon of greats, almost as if we're embarrassed they were capable of great feats on the basis of such events being improbably unbelievable by the likes of us dodgy folk. If the likes of Mohammed can visit heaven on a flying horse, and Jesus can rise from the dead after a few days, then going by the greatness exhibited by our Gurus according to their compositions in Gurbani I don't find it difficult to believe they were equally a cut-above Man in other respects.

Issues like these, from a historical perspective at least, only serve to highlight the lack of a unified account of Sikh history- without dipping into the supernatural - which even the most open-minded historian would be reluctant to support. What happened at Anandpur in 1699 wasn't during an ancient, mythological period of time, so why the ambiguity about the 'tent or no tent', 'goats or no goats', etc? To put it into context the events of that Vaisakhi occured in the same year as William III's struggles with the Parliament of England; the expelling of Jews from certain parts of Germany, and the introduction of the first steam pump. These - and more - are relatively modern, i.e. post-medieval, occurences yet the way some people behave it's as if the Khalsa was formed in 1099 as opposed to 1699! I personally believe heads were severed that day by Guru Ji, but I honestly had never heard of the re-attaching (through sewing) of the Panj's heads up until last year on this website. I was under the impression they were beheaded in-front of the sangat and their bodies taken into an enclosure, from which they re-emerged heads in-tact and wearing different clothes. Could adding that extra bit of mysticism be an attempt by overly-enthusiastic followers to cement the supernatural abilities and origins of Guru Sahib? But then wasn't Guru Sahib against displays of such abilities? Or should we not worry about history in the conventional sense of the word, i.e. what's officially recorded in books, and solely concern ourselves with having complete faith in Guru Sahib? Does having doubts and asking questions mean such people are not true believers? Is complete and total faith the only way to seek Guru Ji's favour?

Speak for yourself. I'm off on the lash later on tonight --- to my bathroom cabinet.

Well done! Some folk make excuses to even visit the gurughar when they find themselves in a dodgy situation. I hope all turns out well.

That's what it boils down to, bro. Our brethren back home think we're idiots for bleating on about justice for Sikhs or determining self autonomy. The blinkers are so firmly attached they don't even realise they aren't free. But as long as they can drive around in 4x4s, the daru flows, and the bakre are served up at weddings they don't really care about much else. This isn't an exclusively Sikh trait but an Indian one; the thinking is "If it doesn't affect my day-to-day life then why bother making a fuss over it?". You can't change that century-old mindset over the course of a few years. It's only when there'll be a situation from which they can't shrug their shoulders will they feel the need for change. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. There's only so much NRIs can do. The heavy lifting of change has to come from those in the mire.

At last! An excellent reply.

The problem is many people (including some so-called Sikhs) settled personal vendettas using the unrest as a cover for their despicable actions, so that's why there's a lot of confusion as to whether Hindus were targetted by our lot. What certain politicians and media outlets in India have done is seize upon this and spun it so that it seems individuals like Sant Jarnail Singh were telling Sikhs to carve up Hindus! It's a ploy by these agencies so that the paap meted out on Sikhs during those days is somehow diminished in the eyes of non-Sikhs, especially if it appears any action taken by the government to quell the uprising was a justified course of action to stop Sikhs killing Hindus. That's not to excuse any isolated instances where Hindus were targetted by individuals who could be described as Sikhs.

----- I concur with the forummer who suggested the OP go to the gurdwara and be part of the sangat. In the end when you've been around the houses you'll eventually find yourself back there. So why not save yourself a lot of heartache and fall at Maharaj's feet to begin with?

"Hindu genocide of Punjab?" Are they having a laugh? I've been reading some stuff recently about India post-1947 that've touched on the events in the 80s and 90s in Panjab, and nowhere do the (Hindu) writers of said books even allude to the fact that Sikhs messed with Hindus in such a way. Sure, the words 'sectarian' and 'fundamental' are thrown about but only in reference to the aims of the separatists, but genocide? The idiots making the Yahoo comments have been watching too much NDTV! :biggrin2:

Probably not helped by the fact that when influential Sikhs - Manmohan Singh being one - were broached on the subject they flat-out denied it. Nevertheless it's good to see U.S. Sikh organisations striving to keep the issue at the forefront of current-day discussions.

The irony is simply superb. He's talking about democracy and the right of every individual to protest in the fight for truth (basically blowing a lot of hot air and providing "right-on" soundbites), yet in his home he sees no compunction in casually abusing his wife in-front of a TV camera. It happens only in India! :lol2:

Sounds like a great idea. But then you'd have to be careful of non-Sikhs disposing of leftover langar when they're tummies are full as I'm sure we've seen people do of their own dinners.

The fact that turbans are being associated with terrorism at all is such a sad state of affairs.