sissy

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh just to develop this issue i propose a hypothetical but very possible scenario what if the person who set fire to darbar sahib in a deluded state was sikh? would he be excluded from the sangat? or is a sikh more likely to be forgiven because he a sikh 'would' know the importance of guru ji and therefore MUST have been deluded to burn guru ji? knowledge and understanding of mental health issues is quite poor globally but particularly amongst indians...and therefore many sikhs....sangat ji please don't fall into the same trap but empower yourselves with giaan before judging.... mental health problems can impact ANYONE and even if you have little or no experience of it YET, sadly it is likely that you will end up with a contat who experiences this... if as sikhs we accept guru ji's hukum, accept the challnges guru ji has sent eg mental health issues...and utilise the sangat and giaan guru ji has blessed us with to overcome these challenges bhul chuk maph

thanks god someone has common sense (sher panjabi)... what is all this about hacking? if they are wrong, you have nothing to get agroa about as such if you are firm in your faith if you are to object, do it with intelligence and dignity...prove them wrong with ur knowledge bhul chuk maph

sounds like u know the answer already...as u said, he family were hindu but he practised sikhi and inspired others with his sikhi... i would say that when people say to u guru nanak dev ji wasn't sikh, remain happy and humble (bcos u know guru nanak dev ji is sikh) and take the opportunity to ask them questions too to explore people's beliefs about guru nanak dev ji...this way u and others will learn...and sikhi is about learning! eg ask them what supposedly makes guru nanak dev ji a hindu? as u said, a persons family's religion does not necessarily decide an individual's religion...therefore guru nanak dev ji's family were hindu and he wa sikh...having said that i think guru ji's sister nanaki was veyr supportive of guru nanak dev ji's sikhi how can guru nanak dev ji be hindu when he rejected caste system, ritualism? do a internet search on 'guru nanak dev ji and hinduism'...im think there's loads on this topic bcos guru nanak dev ji reached out to many....muslims also recognise guru nanak dev ji as an important figure in islamic history hope that helps a little.. bhul chuk maph

:TH: this is fab news sikhi is about sewa...we should recognise the value of any and every individual's humane efforts, regardless of religion....religion can be a superficial label....its our actions that count, not the name of a religion.... just out of interest, can anyone think of another individual whose sewa is comparable to that of mother teresa...sikh and non sikhs?

there was a discussion on hair problems as a result of hormone imbalances etc previoulsy....it may be of interest...see page 23 of the general section...its entitled... pathological/illness induced hair? - to cut? :doh:

why do we have prashaad? <_< @ and it is still a good idea? the global rise in obesity and decrease in activity does not honour sikhi, in my opinion, because it means we are not honouring our bodies. a bit of prashaad once a day is fine and im sure was fine back in the day........ but prashaad nowadays as one of many daily indulgences with choclate, cakes etc does not seem good...we should not let ourselves get so unhelathy that prashaad provision should be questioned because so long as we lead healthy lives, prashaad can be seen in the light of a blessing and perhaps 'treat' guru angad dev ji established the need for sikhs to honour their bodies by taking care of our bodies early in sikh history (being the 2nd guru!) as well as tackling big politics we should not forget our sikhi practise on a day to day level.....im a fan of doing simran whilst jogging whilst holding my kara in my hand to keep me going! fauja singh is the perfect example! random thoughts.......!!!!

why do we have prashaad? <_< @ and it is still a good idea? the global rise in obesity and decrease in activity does not honour sikhi, in my opinion, because it means we are not honouring our bodies. a bit of prashaad once a day is fine and im sure was fine back in the day........ but prashaad nowadays as one of many daily indulgences with choclate, cakes etc does not seem good...we should not let ourselves get so unhelathy that prashaad provision should be questioned because so long as we lead healthy lives, prashaad can be seen in the light of a blessing and perhaps 'treat' guru angad dev ji established the need for sikhs to honour their bodies by taking care of our bodies early in sikh history (being the 2nd guru!) as well as tackling big politics we should not forget our sikhi practise on a day to day level.....im a fan of doing simran whilst jogging whilst holding my kara in my hand to keep me going! fauja singh is the perfect example! random thoughts.......!!!!

i think a variety of perspectives are understandable and acceptable i sikhi in response to this 1) one may feel hurt that this person seems to be acting hypocritically byhandling sharaab on one day and prashaad on another day because of the value sikhs place with prashaad 2) in line with the sikh char di kala attitiude and humility, one may accept that although sharaab is not part of the rehat, this man, despite his drinking flaw is making an effort to do some sewa...better some than none! 3) one may focus on the fact that life and people are dynamic......things change over time.....and the types of changes that occur are heavily influenced by our experiences....although a sharaab drinker, if the efforts of this man as a sewadar are recognised despite his drinking habit, it may help the man to realise that he does not need alcohol to be happy....this realisation may take time...whilst waiting for this realisation it may be harsh to ban eg drinkers from doing sewa and such isolation would proabably actually push people away from sikhi through forgiveness and compassion, the sangat can help each other through their problems, weaknesses etc it is easier said than done...i still have issues about people drinking whilst wearing a kara...we fear misrepresenting the beauty of sikhi in order to include people.......but without people, without sangat, tolerance, undertsanding and humility we will not achieve anything.... it's all love! sorry! this has turned rather mushy and corny!..........need sleep...but under no circumstances should a person under the influence of intoxicants be honoured with somethigng like distributing prashaad bhul chuk maph

wow i wish i could articulate myself like you have...that's what i've been thinking for....well seemingly forever but have been unable to put into words! thanks! thanks for sharing ur views! after reseraching all religions, have u chosen one a particular path? bhul chuk maph

'Maaf Karnaa but how has a group of naked roaming saadhus, who shave their heads and smear ash over their bodies (ie. Udaasi) helped Sikhi's existence???' sher phaji, i have been to a dera run by udaasi's who do not roam, let alone roam naked and do not shave their heads and smear ash over their bodies..... the person kinda responsible for the dera has always had uncut hair, wears a pug etc....he doesn't wear a kara or kirpan and wasn't allowed to marry so yes they do consider themselves as a bit separate from the khalsa...he maintains the building where the dera is placed, does aarti and community work (sewa)....what about these udaasi's? admittedly im still confused about the role of these udaasi's etc in sikhi (if someone can please clarify!!!) but lets not write all udaasi's or ne oter group off as roaming naked shaven-haired people when that is not the case i don't think understand why some feel the need to be udaas (sad!) and not be allowed to mary etc to worship waheguru.... bhul chuk maph

Philip Pullman, the author, suggested Britain’s growing lack of interest in religion might help explain our tolerance. “The more religion you have, the less tolerant you are,” he said. “It sounds as if Britain is a healthy secular society.” (from http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,20...562375,00.html) .....this comment got me thinking..in sikhi we believe in tolerance.....but by being more sikh/khalsa in practise do we actually become less tolerant? an argument for this may explain some of the tensions between amritdharis and mona's i generally disagree as i feel that the more i learn about sikhi, the more i realise that i have no right to judge others...however i do think that some (not all!) 'sikhs' sometimes give an arrogant/authoritative impression, that could be mistaken as intolerance, as their understanding (gyan) of sikhi increases bear in mind this comment was conisdering tolerance of a ethnically different neighbour, casual sex, abortion, etc whilst a sikh may disagree with eg abortion in some cases, a sikh should still show empathy and tolerance to others who may choose abortion for their life path but was just wondering what others think

hi what does everyone think about dehra's..............lil temples dedicated to people associated with guru's eg dehra's in memory of baba sri chand ji (guru nanak dev ji's eldest son) exist in india many thanks :TH:

akaal 108... i think it is very necessary to question the guru's...in a humble way of course, not defensively...because this will enable us to understand sikhi better why did each guru need 1+ wives? was it because one wife died? did any of the guru's have 2+ wives at one time? did any of the guru's marry again when their previos wife was still alive? what was the need for guru gobind singh ji to have a 'spiritual wife'? were his other wives not able to fulfil his spiritual needs? are there any stories in sikhi of sikh women remarrying after eg the death of a husband and being acepted? these issues could have an important implication on our communnity's interpretation of remarriage....its interesting, but unfair, how usually male polygamy/remarriage is more acceptable than female polygamy/remarriage

interesting......i didn't know about the link between polygamy and sikhi if it is true that some of the guru's had 1+wives, why did they have more than one?

good points... but 2 sikhs can marry each other and still be or end up at different stages of sikhi causing differences and just like there are differences of opinion about sikhi within the sikh population that can cause problems, this can also happen between a couple so what if 2 sikhs, despite trying to find a spiritual path together and trying to use sikh values to build a relationship still are not happy together? and what happens if 2 sikhs marry, and then one partner eg gets led away from the path and despite the support of the remaining sikh partner does not return to sikhi....then ur ideology won't necessarily be applicable....marriage depends entirely on mutualism, irrespective of religion....a mutual will and effort to communicate, respect, be honest, trust etc etc its true that if u follow the guru's teachings that u will be a better person and therefore less likely to divorce, however we need to account for the fact that people change their ways at different rates and with different sangats.....sikhi may encourage honesty and communication but a person may not acquire this until thye're 50yrs old odd....how much dishonesty and lack of communication should the other partner have to take until that point?.........in the ideal sikh way, u marry someone u r compatible with, but in real life, especially in the context of eastern arranged marriages etc this does not always happen.... here's a hypothetical scenario that represents some of the problems when sikh and indian issues clash....an indian-origin woman and man are introduced...one partner is genuinely interested in sikhi and the other presents themself as religious ie sikh so they sound 'good' and are considered more marriage-worthy...they marry....but now the marriage is 'secured' the non-genuine partner does not even pretend to be interested in pursuing a spiritual jouney that is central to a sikh marriage.......the other partner may gently encourage the non-sikh partner to open their heart to sikhi.....they may succeed or they may not......if they don't and differences continue to occur and accumulate to produce pure hostilty id divorce an option in sikhi?..the genuine sikh may be recognised to have been deceived........they thought they were marrying a sikh but didn't because of the mix-up our generation has about indians and sikhs.........so would divorce and remarriage to a true sikh in this kind of scenario fulfil waheguru's wish that marriage is a spiritual journey of a soul formed from 2 people sorry, hope that u can make some sense of that hypothetical stream of conciousness!.......i think the crux of the matter is that the sikh way of doing things is with dhian, carefully so as to avoid unnecessarily getting into painful situations eg hostility in the home whereas indian culture is not about using spiritual inteligence but is about what the rest of the pind might say!!! i agree with ur ideologies...shame that it doesn't tend to occur in everyday life as easily as it is written down/said

leading on from the forum 'IS.....' what are people's views on divorce and sikhi?

why is marriage after divorce not allowed? i can understand one would not people to think they can marry, divorce, remarry again and again as i understand it so far, marriage in sikhi is about 2 souls and spirits becoming 1 to worship waheguru... so.... if someone divorces their partner for valid reasons eg they have had an abusive partner, does that divorcee not have any other chance to marry someone with whom their soul can truly and lovingly unite with to advance their sikhi? its easy to try to be black and white with these things but in life things aren't like that in the case of someone who'd been eg mistreated by their partner, i don't think waheguru ji would necessarily look down upon a divorcee who remarried carefully so that the remarriage was to someone who would help the inidvual to become a better person and sikh if we consider that sikh=learner and that there are actually no strict rules laid down by the gurus themselves, maybe we should accept that divorce may be a learning curve that waheguru thinks some people need but that should not prevent them from remarrying.... however, i know that with this argument one could go to the extreme and say that this means that u can try anything eg drugs etc so long as u claim to have learnt from it afterwards...however this is limited because the guru's did explicitly condemn drug taking... bhul chuk maph

hi i just found this quote and thought it would be intereting to discuss.... 'Organised Religion Is The Prop Of A Man Who Has Not Found Himself/God Within" how much of an 'organised religion' is sikhi? some think that sikhi shouldn't even be called a religion because it is a way of life...but pehrpas having to pray a certain number of times a day eg rehraas every evening could be conisdered as organised....? :TH:

shaheed, ur clearly very passionate about this topic...but can i just highlight that i did not dismiss sri guru dasam granth in my msg, i just asked you whether it was in the guru granth sahib ji...bcos i was not sure... be passionate about what you believe in but don't let it blind you!

hey all, would just like to say thankyou to budda singh and sikh soldier <_< ....your views really helped me look at this situation...i agree that this psychiatrist is a racist and his racist comments should be condemned....freedom of speech does not warrant unneccessary slander....though i still wonder if a ceratin experience of sikhs and other non-canadians has made him think such an extreme thoughts....but u r defo right that this example was not appropriate for me to suggest introspection....i think i need to work on the sipahi in me (if there is one!) once again, i am sorry i offended anyone....racism is intolerable, bhul chuk maph

shaheed, when do u think one may meet guru gobind singh ji? only after death? <_<: is dasam bani in guru granth sahib ji? i think it is not up to us to decide who wears a kara, waheguru's hukum...i didn't used to...i am not amritdhari, i have only recently started wear mine but still often think about taking it off because i feel that i may be doing amritdhari sikhs an injustice by only wearing one fifth of something that was intended to be whole..... and i feel i should remove my kara on some occasions e.g if eating meat or something... i ve never wanted to misrepresent sikhs and the importance of the kara by wearing it and doing something 'nonsikh' whilst wearing it...eg sorry i offend anyone, i used to get upset when i say saw someone drinking alcohol with the same hand that they wear a kara.... however, ive chatted to people about it and am trying to be more understanding...whilst i still have concerns that the image of sikhi is getting wrongly confused with non sikh things, especially punjabi things eg people say i must be a sharaabi because im a singhani!....despite this, i think even if someone is wearing a kara and e.g. drinking, although there is a raisk of the meaning of the kara being lost, there is also the chance that at some point that kara will inspire the person to stop chasing maya.... and even if one wears a kara without the other kakkars, perhaps something is better than nothing...??? even though i feel like i am not worthy of my kara sometimes, i also feel like i get strength from having it as a reminder of my sikhi,,,,but then i also do not think it is good to be attached to my kara..... i don't know, im still in two minds about pretty much every issue regarding kara's!...just my two cents bhul chuk maph

...the real question is why does he say that about sikhs? it is easy to get defensive and assume that he must be a racist but we will only improve ourselves if we think more intelligently...we must consider that perhaps he has had a bad experience of sikhs...if so we need to prevent people misunderstanding the sikhs by the minority that undermine sikhi whilst still using the name of sikhi rise above

hi... sikhi is beautiful and often gives me somethign to smile about...char di kala! however, i notice that during e.g. simran, at the gurdwara, there is often a sense of seriousness...and i think if you were seen as ' too happy' people would think ur a bit odd!! last year i met someone who seemed to feel so much pyar for waheguru, and this radiated in his general happy mood! it was so refreshing to meet someone who put 'char di kala' into action if one is feeling waheguru's pyar, maybe we should encourage and feel comfortable to smile while we do simran! just a thought! try it!....hippyish sikhi! <_<

what is the meaning of the kara to u all?...it may seem like an obvious question, but ive heard different ideas, maybe a kara is all of those ideas, or is one more important than the others? eg. kara is like a handcuff that reminds u of ur sikhi all the timem especially if ur gonna do something bad eg pick up a glass of alcohol a kara is circular and therefore never ending, symbolsiing the infinite nature of waheguru a kara is a weapon ???? surely when discussing the significance of who should or should not wear a kara it would be useful if we were all thinking on the same lines about what the meaning of the kara is in the 1st place?! bhul chuk maph