tuhintuhin

Sant Baba Balwant Singh ji Urmur Tandewale:- jeonde mar jaida, sewa kamauni aukhi.......... tavian te asan launa painda, tatta ret pavauna penda, oh naio ghabraida, sewa kamauni aukhi jeonde mar jaida, sewa kamauni aukhi aare naal sir chirvauna painda, band band katvauna painda, taain charkharhi charh jaida, sewa kamauni aukhi jeonde mar jaida, sewa kamauni aukhi neenha vich laal chanaune painde, tind de sraane laune painde, oh fir vi shuker manaida, sewa kamauni aukhi jeonde mar jaida, sewa kamauni aukhi

if you read again my posts, you'll find the same thing.....HE HIMSELF IS THE SARGUN AND NIRGUN.....and anyways...I didn't know that we have to just copy paste gurbani... but it seems like I predicted you are here to prove others wrong, by manipulating posts......

Excerpt of teachings to Sant Isher Singh ji Rarha sahibwale by Sant Attar Singh ji Reru sahib:(adhikari layi bachan) Naam japan wale nu kai gallan da dhyaan rakhna jaroori hai. oh kise bhekh te koi tarak ya nafrat na kare. Chahe oh hindu hai, muslim, chahe sikh ya isaayee. Rasta bhawein vakh-vakh hai par rab sabhna da iko-ik hai, kyonki: "Mazhab na koi rab da, banda kare ijaad, Oh nazdeek khudaaye de, jo rakhan usnu yaad" fer kai sadhu daane, deewane te mastane hunde han. Koi tamoguni, kise vich sato gun adik hunda hai. Jiwein satguran furmaya hai: "birkhe heth sabh jant ikathe, ik tate, ik bolan mithe" - ang 1019 par advaitwadi sabh naal milaap rakhe, tusin is sansar vich bhaant-bhaant de log, sabh ral mil ke chaliye. Mat apne vich neshti howe, milaap har-ik naal rakhe, ki pata parmesher nu kisdi kireya bhaundi hai: "ik bhaye dekho sabh naari, kya jaano seh kaun pyari" - ang 327 Baadshah diyan beant raania hundia han, par raaj da maalak useda puttar banda hai, baadshah di jis upar pooran prasanata(khushi) howe. Ise taran, parmeshaer vi anderle pyar nu dekhda hai, bhekh te nahin reejhda. So har ik naal prem karna saadhu da mukh dharam hai: "tulsi is sansar mein sabhko miliye dhaaye, na jaano kis bhekh mein, narayan mile aaye"

Audio excerpt from "Jeewan Sant Baba Attar Singh ji Reru Sahib" on the topic. 167 Doubt on getting Naam Jugti.mp3

Sant Baba Attar Singh ji Reru Sahib:- "par-upkar de smaan koi punn nahin"

I once heard that they import drugs in Guru sahibs saroops overseas.

Sant Baba Attar Singh ji Reru Sahib:- When Sant Baba Aaya Singh ji Hoti Mardanwale left the panj bhootak chola, sangat (fauji) was directed to Sant Attar Singh ji Reru Sahib by akaal purkh ji's hukum. Sangat had never done darshan of Sant ji. So when they reached reru sahib, they were told that Sant ji "khetan vich hal vaa rahe ne". Sangat on their way to fields started doing shanka/doubts on Sant ji by saying that Sant mahapurkh should not do this, they should just sit and give darshan to sangat, etc. Sant ji, antarjami, knew what was in their minds, so sant ji went to them and said Sant ji is in the kutiya and sangat was directed towards a cottage nearby. When they reached there they saw the same Baba ji, with illahi noor, chita rang, chita darha and said babaji you r the same who met us on way. After confirming they asked how did you get here before us, even took bath and changed clothes. Sant ji first tried to avoid this as thes are gupt khedan. But on insisting did following bachans after explaining the importance of sewa:- "Tusin rabbi hukum anusaar, itni dooron chalke vi aaye, jekar tuahdi eh tush jehi mang vi poori na hundi, fer shardha nahin si rehni. Shardha ton bina sikh nu sadhu darshana da pooran labh nahin milda. par bai, sadhu da ant laina vi theek nahin, shardha rakh ke jitna ho sake sadhu di sewa kariye, ona di parikheya nahin karni chahidi, bhala je ansi hun tuhadi parkh kariye, ta koi kaswati te poora uter sakega?" Sangat apologized. Baba ji again said: Gursikho, shardha waleaan de berhe paar hunde han. Bhagti roop brish laun layi, shudh hirda dharti hai, nimrata roopi jal te shardha hi beej hai. Eh hal wahun di sewa vi daate paason mang ke layi hai, pyare ne tuth ke eh daat bakhshi hai."

anonymous box idea is great. Also Santheya DVD's of Giani Thakur Singh ji Patialewale's should be distributed amog them.

I did't want to post here, but it's really hurting to see ke apan kise nu sewa vi ni karan dinde. Members here are bashing on "BasicsofSikhi" for no reason. He did not say that alcohal is allowed, he meant at this point based on OP's level, as he's just new. BasicsofSikhi's youtube links provide all the required knowledge. Don't you think, one bhajj jana, je onu pehla hi kehdo tu daru ni peeni, meat ni khana, kesh rakh ke parna ban, prayian istaria nu ni dekhna, amritvele uthke path karin roj ishnana karke etc. These changes doesn't happen like this ke somebody ask and we do it. These happen from internally and by itself. And meditation is the key step for internal change. He'll get more knowledge of Sikhi as he has or will start reading books and translation of Gurbani. very well said by Taran0 ji "people new to sikhi first need to learn what it is thet they are sacrificing these things for"

Palarmux Take it easy....don't push anything on yourself....The word "Sikh" itself means "to learn", so it's life-long process.....as human beings that's what we do, keep learning something, good or bad......but learning good is all about "Sikhism" Keep doing meditation......like N30Singh ji said the breath technique works for many... Sikhism is not about converting others. It actually emphasizes on the fact that a person should follow his/her own religion, but whole heartedly, shouldn't manipulate it according to one's own needs. Now that doesn't mean one can't convert to Sikhism. You can move further depending on how your spiritual level goes. This will start some internal changes, meaning getting rid of bad habits etc by itself. You'll notice yourself. And by reading the translation you'll get the essense of Sikhism. This link provides you with plenty of books in Engish. Hope this helps. http://www.gurmatveechar.com/literature?browse=English_Books

The syllabus could include major topics of Sikhism. The Instructor should throw some light on each topic in every class and then ask children (may be make pairs) to do search on it and next week have discussions and clarify the doubts and mis-understandings. In the first or second class, children should be made aware with the names of anti-sikhs & missionaries & their agendas, then they should be introduced to major Sikhi sites, so they know where to search and who not to beleive. Also it would be nice to ask them the topics they might be interested in. Topics: How did Sikhi develop from Guru Nanak Dev ji (Nimrata, parupkar, naam jap, kirat kar, vand shak), to Guru Gobind Singh ji(Sant & sipahi)? Who's Khalsa? What was the need for it? Other related important details and aspects like rehat etc. Introduction to all Nitnem Bania and other bania. Imporatance of Sehaj path. Also how to keep sucham & maryada of Guru sahib's saroop, pothis and Gutka sahib. What is Santheya? Why is it important? Resources to be provided like Giani Thakur Singh jis' Santheya videos or links. Daswand, Nimrata, par-upkar, naam jap, kirat kar, vand shak and their importance Whats "Maya"? Effect of Ninda, chugli, lobh, moh, hankaar, ego, kaam, krodh etc? How to overcome these. Importance and benefit of "qualities" like daya, dharam, santokh, forgiveness, contentment, compassion, being co-operative, humble, hard work, responsible etc.? What's Simran/meditation? Importance and info on some techniques to do Why is doing "sewa" important? How's it connected to "simran"? Importance of "sangat" or "Satsang" Importance of Amritvela, nishan sahib, langar etc.? Importance of "jat", "sat", "sanjam", high moral values and character in Sikhi? Name major Gursikhs & shaheeds of Sikh Panth and why did they do so? (Including ghalughares) Some detail on 1984 and Sant Jarnail Singh ji Bhindrawale - To bring the truth forward and clear any doubts they might have. Who are Sants? Importance & Introduction to the names of some sant mahapurkhs and their lives. Difference between real (Guru naal jorhe)& fake sants (Guru ton torhe). What are the benefits and importance of listening to katha & keertan & reading books on Guru sahiban, bhagats & mahapurkhs lives? What is Politics? Why is it important from Sikhi propective? How should sikhi parchar be done? How would children do it, if asked or they have to now & in future? Why being born in a "Sikh" family is a blessing? What was the need for "Sikhism"? Why & How's Sikh Identity different from Muslim (in terms of physical appearance, often misunderstood and becomes victim of hate crimes)? Many other topics can be added to the list. Children should be involved by giving the opportunity to speak in the presence of whole class. Bhul chuk maaf.

True. It's all benefit, no loss. Even if you just sit and don't ask anything, you still get benefitted from the positive spiritual vibration. And other thing, it's not that we go and ask the first day and our wish get fulfilled. It could take just one day or one year or anything based on our shanke/doubts, shardha, karams and Guru Sahib's kirpa. When right time comes, everything gets sorted out and/or we get spiritual strength to cope with the problems - meaning dukh/situation remain the same, but it doesn't affect you, in other words, your "avastha/spiritual level" rises.

Sangat, please relish. Anti-Sants - You are requested not to start any Sant mahapurkh Ninda here. "Kai kehnde ne ena de kaphre rang birange ne, koi puche, jina de chite paye ne, ona de piche kehrha aapan thaal lai firde aa" Part#1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nva26oprFKA Part#2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqH6Q2dhMdE Part#3 Part#4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDU3SJBQ_Rk Part#5

To start with, meanings not imited to this.....beant da ant nahin paeya ja sakda....so no challenge or whatsoever can give clear cut/yes/no answers regarding HIM Nirgun is parkash - without qualities - above "tin gun - rajo, tamo, sato" and/or maya, birth death, it's invisible / adrishat, formless, as Mehtab Singh ji says "eternal prevailance", - explained in detail in "mool manter" and "Jaap sahib" Sargun is HIS creation in various forms, where he manifested HIMSELF, his nirgun saroop, the eternal light, and this form is visible and has three qualities - rajo, tamo, sato...... But in end, sargun and nirgun, they are one and the same.....but nirgun being sea and sargun being a pot of water in sea, when broke, one can't differentiate between the two.

When a child starts from basics.......he's taught the simplest way possible .....like "urha" "unth" with picture or "a" apple with picture......why? we all know all bhagats were one and the same, above religion and caste...............but when someone new who doesn't know anything.....to make them understand what actually happened, details are neccessary,,,,, and waheguru has done kirpa on this Gursikh by having him do HIS sewa.........had he not mentioned the religions, those westerners would have ended up thinking that probably Guru sahib allowed the writings of bhagats from Sikhism only....... ........and also mentioning the religion would just give them base for easy understanding, won't affect the actual spiritual status of Bhagats in any way.......

Listen to chotte sahibzade shaheedi saka katha

^^ waheguru ji this thread was started because other was closed....the meanings in the first post were related to the closed thread where N30Singh ji was looking at the whole issue from nirgun (sarab-vyapakta) aspect.......and some members were looking at it from rehat maryada and adab aspect.........both aspects were right to me.....I personally don't favour her doings.....but I was talking about the different angels where the thoughts were coming from......and this difference was because of the different spiritual level.....for example.....same hukumnama appeals differently to people based on their own (avastha - low or high) different wishes, karams, questions and guidance they need..... ....as I said you can come forward and share the meanings.....I have not asked this thread to be closed after I am done.....everybody wants a nice discussion, not personal attacks...........what happens is instead of sharing and respecting others views....members are being attacked as a person which ruins the discussion ............. it's not my "sargun" "nirgun" meanings that I invented from myself.......that's what it means......obviously, not limited to that, as Kam1825 ji said in one other thread "sagar nu gagar ch band nahin kar sakde"........ iand you, instead of sharing the deeper meanings, are just questioning others so that you can prove them wrong after they have been answered ....... But only if we can carry on the discussion without personal attackings and respecting others viewpoints, can make this thread fruitful

^^ waheguru ji,,,,,,,every individual has different spiritual (bhagti) & knowlegde (gyan) level depending on previous karam, sewa, simran, paap, punn and Guru sahib's kirpa......so ...........coming to your questions.......I don't prefer induldging in arguements to prove myself right and others wrong ..........we all know the answers......even if I do give any explanation, members would come and say no that's wrong......go read gurbani, you sant follower you this that...........if one says the definition is same for everyone, no............like doctor doesn't give the same medicine to every patient, but based on his physical condition & requirement ..it's different for everyone..........Gurbani is not limited to any one meaning...every tuk has multiple meanings.....so I might go with one and you might go with other based on individual spiritual level, gyaan & Guru sahib's kirpa..........................you are very welcome to elaborate and share the gyaan......

o waheguru...................

one can't find the limit of limitless....... waheguru ji this was in context to the other thread that got closed...little explanation on 2 different opinions being debated, coming from 2 different angles.........

Start part#1 from 5.00 continue on the 2nd part till 2.36, then again from 3.48 till 6.00

In simple language, Nirgun saroop - invisible - spirituality Sargun saroop - visible - rehat He is the creator of his "sargun" form and resides within the creation. It means that Nirankar Himself manifested his invisible form to his visible form.

by thinking neutrally, some members are looking at this from "sargun" perspective whereas N30Singh ji is looking at this from "nirgun" perspective personally, both seem correct...... We have to maintain satkar at both levels...."sargun" as well as "nirgun".......

It's worth buying because it's this "zafarnama" after reading which laid Aurangzed on the bed for ever. Guru Gobind Singh ji actually asked Sikhs "Aurange nu kiwein maariye, talwar naal ke kalam naal".....sikhs replied" sache paatshaha...talwar naal ta har koi maar lenda, kalam naal maariye" that's when Guru sahib wrote zafarnama and sent Bhai daya singh and Bhai Dharam Singh...http://www.sridasamgranth.com/#/significance-of-zafar-nama/4532200012 “Fortunate are you Aurangzeb. You are designated the emperor, known for dexterous swordsmanship, a keen rider, intelligent scholar of Qur’an, and a skilled ruler, skilled in wielding weaponry. You are the great carver of kingdoms and collector of wealth. You are firm in the battlefield as a mountain. Your generosity is profuse, your position exalted. Your supposed loftiness is as that of the Pleiades. Yet how macabre is your justice, your attributes and your regard for religions other than your own. Indeed you are far from attributes of your own religion. Alas, a hundred times Alas, for the exercise of your sovereignty; strange is your decree. I simply wanted to teach a lesson to the Hindu Hill chiefs who were divided by civil strife. They worshipped idols, while I was the idol breaker. Yet you chose to protect them, and joined them to expel me out of my sanctuary at Anandpur. I have no faith in your solemn oaths wherein you even chose to make Almighty God as witness! I have not an iota of confidence in you. All your officials proved to be deceitful. One who puts faith in your oath on the Qur’an is inviting disaster. Had I not taken you on your word upon the Qur’an I would not have chosen the path I did. I knew not that your hunch men are crafty and deceitful like a fox, else I would not have driven myself to this state of affairs. If you want to see your promise on the Qur’an, I could send the (relevant) document for sure to you. What could my Forty men do when your countless hordes of men pounced upon them unawares at Chamkaur. These oath-breakers attacked them suddenly with swords, arrows and muskets. I was constrained to engage in the combat, and I fought to the limits of my physical ability. When affairs and circumstances pass beyond the region of diplomacy and reason it is lawful in faith to unsheath the sword. Your hordes came charging like blue-bottles and all of a sudden spread in a loud bang. The soldiers of your army who advanced beyond legitimate defences to attack my position fell deluged in blood. When I saw that Nahar Khan entered the fight I quickly gave him the taste of my arrow. Many soldiers who came with him, and boasted of their prowess, ignominiously deserted the field of the battle. Another warrior, of Afghan blood, advanced like a flood. He made many assaults, received many wounds and was at last killed, after he had killed two of my Lions - Singhs. Cowardly Khawaja Mardud remained behind the wall and did not come out like a man. Had I but seen his face I would certainly have bestowed an arrow on him too. But how could Forty men – the bravest of all – succeed when opposed by countless host. Eventually when the light of the Sun spread and the darkness of the night receded God guided me the way to escape. I am but a slave and a servant of Akal-Purakh, Timeless Being, who is the King of Kings. I am ready to obey His order even at the cost of my life. God is without fear. He is the True Emperor of earth and heaven. He is the Master of both worlds. He showed me the way to save myself. What can the deceitful enemy do when God is on one’s side? He gives me deliverance and points out the way to His creature. While you –in arrogance, look upon your army and wealth, I look upon His effulgent Power. You are proud of your empire; I am proud of the refuge of God. It matters not that my Four Sons were martyred, my Khalsa remains behind, ever ready like a coiled snake. What bravery is it to quench a few sparks; you are stirring up the fire to rage all the more. My Khalsa would light fires right under the hoofs of your horses. So be wise, Aurangzeb, smite not mercilessly with the sword, else the sword of the All-mighty shall smite you.”