13Mirch

Some of these pictures were commissioned by disciples, the Baba Bidhi Chand Dal still has one commissioned by their namesake which depicts the sixth master. I think it has already been posted on this thread.

Some of the sources I have speak of a semi (silk) thread. Not being a doubting Thomas, but other than Giani Gian Singh Nirmala- I believe- no other scholar mentions any topis. Guru Nanak Dev Ji, obviously, dressed as per the cultures of the regions he traveled.

On one hand you cite, 'forced conversions' on the other you cry the 'ghadar' line; your own mind isn't made up yet you elect to vilify others. A ten year old becomes a ghadar? No offence, but I would like to see your reaction if something similar transpired with your children. Would your own blood be dearer to you, or your 'ghadar' hype?

Dilgeer is a notorious turncoat and academically subjective i.e. his opinion is supposed to be God's own.

I am unsure as to that. Its a fantastic read though. It was commissioned by the Ghadarites themselves to dispel the nationalist myth that they were Marxist or pro Hindu Sabha (Arya Samaj and co).

Jagjit Singh, part of the Ghadarite movement, and S. Kapur Singh are good authors. Their books not only cover the history of the Sikhs but also the ideological dynamics of the faith.

In an industry where cliches are formulaic and nomenclatures a powerhouse, Gurdass Mann has transcended the world of lesser mortals to become a singing phenomena in his own right. Enjoying a God-like status (illiterate Punjabi youth believe him to be the reincarnation of the Sufi Bulleh Shah), Mann’s newest single Punjab has dispatched the Punjabi social media into paroxysms of delight. But an undercurrent of dissent is accompanying Punjab’s success. Listeners are beginning to wonder why artists like Mann are only able to talk the talk but not walk the walk. In an era where mass societal awakening is precipitating great changes in the Punjabi psyche, Mann’s Punjab might influence radical changes but not of the type which listeners expect. Expectations were that Punjab would influence Punjabis to transform their Punjab into what it once was- a progressive and fiscally astute state. Speaking practically, though, Punjab has unwittingly become an unveiling of the decadent Punjabi music industry and is swiftly transforming into a yardstick to measure artistic hypocrisy with. Punjab commences with the vision of a bonhomie Punjab. A young Bhagat Singh (one of the few Punjabi patriots permitted in the national discourse but venerated on both sides of the border) has awakened and is preparing himself for his future: execution for armed rebellion against the British regime. Rope in hand, the young Bhagat encounters Mann en-route to an ideal execution spot. After a brief conversation, the young Bhagat accompanies Mann to the Punjab of today; a moral cesspit where the sacrifices of past forbears have been long forgotten. To augment his narrative, Mann has generated profuse lyrics and expressive tunes. But a feeling of hollowness cannot be shaken whilst watching the track. For those well-acquainted with the antics of the Punjabi media, it is hard to empathize with Mann’s narrative and herein lies the problem; singing about change does not wrought change nor does singing about perfectness invoke perfectness. By focusing on change alone, Mann omits any candid references to how Punjab was reduced to it’s present state. For a people who are famed for confronting obstacles head on, Mann’s Punjab emerges as a farce to many Punjabis. His stand would have been justified if he had elected to depict the causes of Punjab’s fall. What he has presented, though, is only a digression; a categorical denial of the how and, instead, a myopic focus on the what is. The visual panorama, accompanying the track, does it’s cause a grave injustice. The infamous case, last year, where a dancer was shot dead by an intoxicated wedding guest is exhibited along with a general increase in misogynist crime. Drug-addicted youth and an inimical capitalism complete the picture but the misery does not end there. Punjabi NRI’s are criticized for being too materialistically attached. A mother is exhibited thrusting an ipad in her son’s face whilst drinking her heart out. In a subtle nod to ingrained Punjabi machismo, women are depicted as being more guilty than men. The ipad mother, for example, is depicted as being guilty of perverting her son’s worldview and health. What of her husband though? For a well-renowned promulgator of gender equality, what is Mann trying to insinuate? Punjabi women are more guilty than their husbands vis-a-vis alcoholism? Punjabi women are nothing more than per di juti (a male’s shoe)? An effective message against alcoholism, as a result, is devolved into a finger-pointing charade between both sexes. Andro-centrism, societal atrophy- which produces rampant substance abuse-,political and societal corruption are all glossed over to ultimately depict the disease but not it’s cure. Cultural degrading of women, which the Sikh Gurus railed against, is surprisingly given no mention. The inherent malaise of Punjabi culture-both alien and inherent- is effectively dismissed. Ultimately Punjab can be compared to a patient who is not aware of his affliction and is unable to locate a physician to alleviate his distress. Punjab would have not been complete without the formulaic analysis of Punjab’s long lost glory. An uncontrolled influx of pesticides and notorious agricultural chemicals is blamed for being the principle foe of Punjab’s declining agro-profit bank. The political policies behind this declining and the subsequent increase in drug addiction coupled with migration, though, is surprisingly not mentioned. The perversion of religious norms, in the state, is only granted a brief minute. No mention is made of politically backed Deras and the Godmen who run rife among the populace. The recent beadbi of the Sikh canon is only mentioned in passing. Again, the cause behind these episodes is conspicuously absent from Mann’s narrative. For an artist whose nationalistic passion is unbridled, one is forced to wonder what would actually transpire if Bhagat Singh and Mann met face to face? Singh possessed an iron-will and was more than overjoyed to accept the death sentence for his having confronted the incumbent tyranny. Would such a revolutionary silently accept Punjab, or criticize it for it’s half-truths and loop-sided assertions? Our bone with Mann is not over his non-conformism to the Sikh ethos. Rather, it is over his hypocrisy. The dera he attends in Nakodar is well-famed for intoxicant abuse. His rallying against drug abuse, then, emerges as an attempt to hide his own dirty linen. It is not surprising that Punjabi youth are already attempting to exonerate him by claiming that he is an artist and free to sing whatever he so desires. We concur, but it must be said that prominent personalities also possess a duty towards society vis-a-vis their own leanings. A teacher, by nature, should also employ the principles he preaches for maximum articulation. Mann falls short of the principles he advertises. His association with deras, sycophantic promulgation of notorious personalities and the like have all contributed towards tarnishing Punjab. What could have been a decisive blow, in the heart of the moral atrophy afflicting Punjab, instead emerges as an attempt to absolve himself. The timing of the track, in the immediate aftermath of the Punjab elections, also calls into question his Bona fides. To reiterate our earlier view: Mann is only attempting to exonerate himself in the face of the awakening ensconcing Punjab; he is not the victim of the times, but rather a victim of his own image. https://tisarpanthdotcom.wordpress.com/2017/02/12/a-two-faced-muse/

Baba Hazura Singh Ji was a fully fledged Gursikh and Akali-Nihung who was also a Jathedar of Takhat Sri Hazur Sahib Ji. According to the history of the Takhat, Baba Ji was the firstborn son of Baba Ala Singh Nihung. For more information please read: http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/2015/09/guardians-of-gobind-ii.html He was also the tutor of Baba Joginder Singh Ji Moni and also an adept Shastardhari warrior.

Sikhs of today, the Punjabi variety, are mostly fukres. One should remember that past Sikhs made themselves into mahabalis, they didn't look towards their neighbors.

So many parents left childless by Makkar and his masters. So many weeping families; so what if his son died? Ape beej; ape hi kha. This was bound to happen.

It is believed that Kavi Santokh Singh utilized an unadulterated version of the Sau Saakhi to compose his Suraj Prakash.

I believe the translation-cum-transliteration was first produced during the tenure of the Amritsar Singh Sabha. To quote Mandair on this point: 'The Amritsar Singh-Sabha (Sanataan) was set up and backed by conservative Sikhs belonging to the Khatri Caste, many of whom were descendants of early Sikh Gurus. They included men such as Baba Khem Singh Bedi, a direct descendant of Guru Nanak, Thakar Singh Sandhanwalia, Avtar Singh Vahira and Giani Gian Singh, a noted Sikh scholar of the time. The conservation of this Amritsar based group stemmed from the fact that they saw the Sikh Panth as one among the myriad streams constituting "Sanataan Dharma," the so-called eternal tradition that identifies its source of authority as the Veda. These self-styled 'Sanataan Sikhs' can be traced to those groups that refused to take Khalsa initiation on the grounds that the "Khande-Ka-Pahul" ceremony polluted their ritual boundaries and threatened their Caste status which they regarded as primary. Though they resented the democratic tendency within the Khalsa groups, they continued to co-exist within the broader Sikh Panth even as they remained aloof from the mainstream Khalsa practices.' Mandair, 'Sikhism: A Guide for the Perplexed,' pg. 83.

The last sentence vis-a-vis Guru and Shasters (Hindu precepts and not weaponry) seems to be an injunction of the author or an addition to the original text. Seems to be quite out of place.

I suggest the Tisarpanth page on fb. They are an alternative strand when compared to the fractured Nihang pages. From what I know, no Gatka was never the martial art of the Gurus. Its just a play; a sport.

I thought this was from the Sau-Saakhi.

This is an anglophonic translation. Every verse needs to be contextualized separately for relative understanding of the matter.

I shared this with several pages on facebook, and share it again on this forum as well. Nidar, the Lost Sikh Warrior, has now fled to Germany after divorcing his wife. His personal affairs his own, the main reason for his departure is probably the fact that his shop has closed down in UK. We all remember how several Nihungs, who he asserted were supportive of his dancing style-cum-"martial art," went on video and refuted his claims. Whilst surfing the net, I chanced upon some of his prior fallacies: "Baba Mohan Singh was unanimously elected as his (Giani Gurbachan SIngh Ji's) rightful successor to Samparda Bhindra. Why else would he still have control of the original shrines and lands at Bhindra established by Baba Sundar Singh?" http://www.<banned site filter activated>/htmls/article_samparda_kartar2.html Giani Ji's own views: http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Gurbachan_Singh_(Bhindran_wale)/Sant.Gurbachan.Singh--Passing.Taksal's.Mukh.Sewa.to.Sant.Kartar.Singh.mp3 His website is full of mendacious propaganda. To clear up some his falsities regarding Baba Santa Singh: "Niddar Singh has propagated the myth that as per the elder Singhs of the Budha-Dal, it was Baba Santa Singh Ji who acquired land for Giani Kartar Singh Ji Bhindranwale to construct the Chowk Mehta Branch of Damdami Taksal upon. Who these Singhs are he fails to mention. The Singhs we have approached substantiate (yes, they actually substantiate) that Giani Kartar Singh Ji became Jathedar of Taksal in '61. Baba Santa SIngh Ji became Jathedar of the Budha-Dal in '69. During '61 Baba Ji was in Ludhiana, conducting Amrit Sanchaars and there is no record of him ever having visited the original Taksali H.Q. let alone interfering in it's affairs."

Mods, is it possible to actually get Jonny back on this thread whenever he returns to the forum?

A common human is a being full of the five vices. The Guru probably insisted on humanity (the concept of) rather than being a human. Two different things.

Baba Khan Singh was Baba Binod Singh Ji's brother. "Dohra : Sri Guru Angad Dev (the Second Sikh Guru) and Sri Guru Amardas (the third Sikh Guru), Belonged to the Trehan and Bhalla sub-castes of (Sareen) Kshtriyas. (Their descendents Baba Binod Singh and Kahan Singh) received Khande-ki-Pahul3 , (And became members of the Khalsa Panth) as initiated Singhs. (1) Chaupai : While Bhai Kahan Singh was a brother of (Baba) Binod Singh Trehan, Baba Ram Singh Bhalla had another brother (Daya Singh). All of them donned the blue Khalsa robes, And adorned their turbans with dagga studded steel rings. (2) They partook their food in the prescribed steel bowls, And meditated upon the Timeless (Akal) Divine Almighty. When the revered (tenth) Guru Gobind Singh willed it so, They were deputed to accompany Banda Singh (to Punjab). (3) A large contingent of Khalsa Panth force was deputed to accompany them, In order to avenge the death of Sahibzadas from the Mughals. They were ordered to proceed against the Mughals and Hill chiefs, And destroy them after meting out severe punishments. (4) They were ordered to seize power from the Mughals and Hill chiefs, And gradually become sovereigns (in their place). The Khalsa Panth accepted the Guru’s express will, And joined their forces with the Banda Singh’s force. (5)" -Sri Gur Panth Prakash, pg. 453.

Baba Baaz Singh Ji (son of Baba Binod Singh ji) was actually Shahid at Delhi.

Why are you trying to digress from the topic at hand? The so-called letter of Bhai Mani Singh Ji has already been proven to be a forgery done much later. We have more solid evidence in the form of Mughal communications (quoted in Gupta's 'History of the Sikhs,') the Sri Gur Panth Prakash, Suraj Prakash and so forth.

Typical Jonny; if other threads are anything to go by, then he has run off now.

Jonny, on a personal level I have never had any problems with you on this forum. However when you start constructing "facts" to build a theory, I am sure more than one individual desires to silence you. Number 1: Dr. Ganda Singh's work is not without error and here's why: 1.) He is of the mind (or this is the impression we get) that Ratan Singh Bhangu exacerbated certain elements in his Sri Gur Panth Prakash to paint Baba Banda Singh as a villain. He contends that Banda did not desire to be sovereign, but himself admits: 'With the establishment of his power, Banda Singh assumed regal state.' -'Life of Banda Singh Bahadur,' 1935, pg. 80. Jagjit Singh touches upon this point, in his 'Percussions of History, and elaborates that in a period of ideological ascendancy the Khalsa would have never tolerated individual leadership as the entire Panth was sovereign and not just one Sikh. Why the Doctor doesn't touch upon this point is a bit of a mystery. 2.) He asserts that the salutation of "Fateh Darshan" adopted by Banda was a war cry ('A Short History of the Sikhs,' vol. I, pg. 92). This then was abandoned as it was feared that it might replace the Khalsa greeting. There is nothing provided to substantiate the premises of such a fear; why would the Khalsa abandon it's Guru given greeting? The Doctor doesn't say. 3.) In a transliteration of Banda's edict, dated Poh 12; Sammat 1, the Doctor touches upon Banda's following injunction: 'Do not eat meat, fish or onion...' He elaborates that: 'this injunction, for which there is no sanction in Sikhism, shows some of the old predilections lurking in Banda's mind.' (Ibid, pg. 92). We are never told how the Khalsa received this edict, and what it made out of these "old predilections." (It is crucial to note here that in the above point, there is subtle concurrence with Bhangu). Dr. Dhillon, another Banda scholar, would assert that prior researchers (including Dr. Ganda Singh) never provided or even utilized a full index of primary sources to narrate Banda's life but rather regurgitated familiar sources. Kudos to Dr. Ganda Singh for his research, but he was a man of facts and sometimes the facts flabbergasted him to such a level that he had to provide assertions, rather than evidence, to attempt to verify his own standing. Number 2: Here is a recording of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji. http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Jarnail_Singh_(Bhindran_wale)/41_Questions_with_Sant_Jarnail_Singh_Ji_Bhindrawalae/Sant.Jarnail.Singh.(Bhindra.wale)--41.Questions.with.Sant.Jarnail.Singh.Ji.Bhindrawalae.Part.01.mp3 What are his exact words? "When Baba Banda Singh Ji- in error- expressed a desire to have his persona worshiped, Baba Deep Singh Ji opposed him..." This is also verified by the Sri Panth Prakash. Several prominent jathas, under the command of Baba Binod Singh, left Banda owing to religious differences. However the Panth Prakash, for all its faults, also states that Banda himself then accepted the error of his ways during the last days of the Gurdas Nangal siege. His shaheedi and remorse so impressed the Khalsa, that the Panth held an ardass at Sri Darbar Sahib and forgave him. I do not know what you think about Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, but from what I have witnessed Hari Singh Randhavewale is a charlatan. Our differing views aside, hopefully this audio puts the matter to the rest and prevents you from slagging off more Gursikhs? Nor do you provide any substantiation of how Binod Singh constructed the canards, and how they proliferated to such a degree in the Panth. Usually when cornered, your type claim either brainwashing or RSS.

Khalara actually researched his subject, I have always believed that the Akalis did him in.