13Mirch

Maybe it's not Nikhlank Avtar as in Kalki avtar u know, like Hindus see him. Maybe Maharaj is using the meaning of the word to illustrate a point. The name Kalki is often a metaphor for eternity or time. The origins of the name probably lie in the Sanskrit word "kalka" which refers to mud, dirt, filth, or foulness and hence denotes the "destroyer of foulness," "destroyer of confusion," "destroyer of darkness," or "annihilator of ignorance." (Wikipedia). Kalki avtar as in Dasam Granth can be the Hindu Kalki avtar as they see him, is he a pooran avtar?

I use a small kirpan and kanga especially for this purpose. I tie it on my head and then cover my head with a patka.

I always wondered about the 1984 bit. Does he state why invaders attacked India so many times in spite of Shastar Vidya?

I just had a thought after discovering many unseen pics of Sikh history and other Sikh texts which have been forgotten (just about) online, that there must have been Sikhs who stored Lala Jagat Narain's garbage and other anti-Sikh media reports in Indian newspapers somewhere. Pictures, videos, newspaper cuttings etc if someone has such material then can you please let me know? I will be very happy to receive such material to spread on social media etc. Especially any material related to controversial actions of Punjab Police etc.

I have this picture of Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale when they were young

I suggest a starting point will be A.R. Darshi's book The Gallant Defender. He had an official position in Punjab at the time and investigated whether Sant Ji was a terrorist or not. What he discovered was that Indian state had demonized him. Other than that Bijla Singh Ji's articles are good and so is the info on this forum. Always ask questions. Honest doubts are there to be cleared.

Yes the attack was planned 18 months before according to General S.K. Sinha, Dr. Subraniam Swami, Mark Tully, A.R. Darshi and other independent sources. A model was in built in the Chakrata valley in Doon cantonment. If there really had been weapons as the starter of this thread says being stock piled three years before then the operation would have been launched sooner. It must be a very stupid author who wrote the book our friend read, three years before is just ridiculous. Even Indira herself never said this. She only said that the attack was to be launched because she had apparently intercepted a letter in Sant Ji's hands regarding him planning to kill all the Hindus in Punjab on June 5th. Again if weapons had been stock piled three years before then there would have been more than the 241 militants in Darbar Sahib who gave shaheedi. As faras I know even that fool K.S. Brar doesn't give credence to this. Three years before is highly improbable. Why did the Indian state wait for the situation to deteriorate and then act? While knowing there were weapons being stockpiled in Darbar Sahib. And there must surely have been security arrangements to protect these weapons. What were they?

It all depends on whose side of the story you read. India is bound to demonize him but they have many inconsistencies in their narrative. At times they say he was in Darbar Sahib from November 1983 at others in beginning of June. They lie. He was in the Akal Takhat which is the Sikh parliament. He and the Akalis were in there planning for advancement of Dharam Yudh Morcha. Indira however wanted to win the votes by portraying Sikhs as violent and communal. Hence she and the para military forces started murdering civilians as well as Sant Ji's men in Punjab to garner a reaction from him. They also used the media to whitewash their acts and say Sant Ji was murdering Hindus. It soon became apparent one way or another they were going to attack Sikhs. And how do you do that? You take a page out of Abdali's book and attack Darbar Sahib. Sant Ji and his men had piled sandbags and constructed a few fortifications, eyewitness accounts attest to their good behavior. The attack however was deliberate. Of course General Brar claims the militants released a few "hostages" but why are those people not speaking out for him? Especially since so many are speaking out for Sant Ji? In the spirit of Baba Gurbax Singh Ji's actions Sant Ji decided to defend Darbar Sahib. Here are a few things to consider regarding your info: 1.) Why did the Indian state let them stockpile weapons for three years? 2.) Who provided these weapons? 3.) Despite having so many weapons why was the army there for a week? Why not longer? 4.) Why only weapons? Why not food? 5.) The police and army had so many opportunities to arrest Sant Ji. Why didn't they? 6.) If really so many weapons had been stockpiled where is the proof? Photographs etc. 7.) Three years is a long time for any weaponry to be lying idle. And so many people went to visit Akal Takhat and Darbar Sahib. Why didn't anyone speak out then? Why not the jathedars, sevadars and sangat? Why not the Akalis themselves who were always suing for a peaceful situation? 8.) Sant Ji in none of his speeches indicates this. Why? He could easily have used it as a lever to make the Indian state listen to him. Regarding senseless I advice that you undertake research from a Sikh perspective and you will really see the reality behind senseless. Brother Bijla Singh's article will be helpful if you read Punjabi. This is the first time I am hearing about something three years prior. The Indian state cannot be that lazy. And please do read about wars and Harmandir Sahib. Whats more more than 20 other gurudwaras were attacked that day and government is mum over them. That too in face of the fact that there were no terrorists in those gurudwaras how do you explain that? On September 1981 Sant Ji offered voluntary arrest and was detained for 25 days. If weapons really had been stockpiled in the time you give Indian state would not have let him go. And this was officially before he entered Nanak Niwas in Darbar Sahib. Even the d.c. of Punjab at the time stated that arresting Bhindranwale would not be hard, even if it meant going in Darbar Sahib. And then you have General S.K. Sinha who refused to lead the attack. There are also many other factors to consider. Books on Sant Ji are written with many goals in mind. Indian one is simple, to demonize him. And Damdami Taksal is the name of the Sikh university and it is located at Mehta Chowk Gurudwara Gurdarshan Prakash.

What happened to that documentary "Martyrs" did India release it? I know a few Islamic extremists, especially that website run by dear Abu Adeeba had a big spaz about it but that did not stop it from being presented to Sikhs overseas.

Characters are based on real life people. The characters featured in the film are based on: Bhai Jagtar Singh Hawara. Bhai Jagtar Singh Tara. Shaheed Bhai Jaswant Singh Ji Khalara. Bhai Balwant Singh Ji Rajoana. Shaheed Bhai Dilawer Singh Ji. Bhai Paramjit Singh Bheora. K.P.S Gill. Beant Singh (not sure about this one). etc. If u go on their facebook page u will see they are looking for distributors overseas.

Maybe we can help jathebandis fighting against these guys. Provide them with knowledge etc. but HeatSikhingMissile is right. We are too divided, we need to get over our differences. Seems like Tamil Christians want to move base, I read that apparently nowdays RSS uses Lower-Caste Christians for it's dirty work there. They come into Punjab and we get more RSS touts running to protect their "Sikh Brothers."

Regarding cast though, I have heard that in Tamil Nadu there are churches based on Caste. Is this true? And lets not forget the differences in Christianity. My friend a Christian debated evolution with me, ultimately out of frustration he told me that he couldn't care about evolution because he was going to heaven and I was going to hell. Then he started blaming Catholics for everything that was wrong with Christianity as a whole.

Just saw a message on the wall of Jatha Shaheedan on Facebook that the 40 families who converted weeks back, two of them had a meeting with the Jatha members and have converted back to Sikhi. We however should not let us put this issue in the back of our minds. We need to fight these missionaries now!!!!! Their lies are what make them successful. We have so many jathebandis and groups fighting against Islamic and Hindu extremists why not these guys? Giani Ditt Singh was able to defeat them with the pen. So can we if we put our minds to it. Hahahahaha funny I put up the same thing just now too.

Thank u veer Ji, lust strikes me only a few times now but I am working on it. As for amritvela I did manage to get up at 4am once. I will keep on doing ardass.

We should download their hate videos. That way at least we will have proof when they decide to delete theirs off the net.

Nothing more than the typical Indian whitewash over the whole matter.

Isn't the hocus pocus stuff against Gurmat? Wouldn't getting up at amritvela be hypocrisy when u also do "hocus pocus" on the other hand?

There is a young Singh by the name of Surinder Singh Thikriwala arrested with Bittu and Barapind and many others like him. Is anyone doing anything about such Singhs? And why doesn't RAW look at international Hindu organisations which more often than not hold fundraisers and send financial assistance to Terror organisations like the RSS, BJP etc. Sikh media should turn the tables on India and start portraying the truth about the so-called World's largest democracy.

Finally a break from the "Babas" of today.

But I do not believe monas can get naam. They are not following the Guru's hukam. What I mean is they cannot unlock it's full use to get to Waheguru. It will lead them to Amrit etc. But it's better to be prepared before hand.

I think it's more the mindset the parents have. If that mindset is changed then this gap can be sealed, closed.

Knowledge of Kings?

I will just say that even Guru Nanak Dev Ji had charan pahul amrit. And yes the meditation bit will veer him in the right direction. Ultimately towards amrit.

Concerning the word Hindu if you think about it a commen argument is that the Persians could not pronounce "Sindhu", so they pronounced it Hindu. If you consider it though many "s" words in Hindi come form Persian, like Samosa from Sambosa. And there are many other such words which exposes the "Sindhu" argument to be a lie. Ajrawat Singh cleared that up. Bani mentions Hindu in this context: ਮਃ ੧ ॥ मः १ ॥ Mėhlā 1. First Mehl: ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੂਲੇ ਭੂਲੇ ਅਖੁਟੀ ਜਾਂਹੀ ॥ हिंदू मूले भूले अखुटी जांही ॥ Hinḏū mūle bẖūle akẖutī jāʼnhī. The Hindus have forgotten the Primal Lord; they are going the wrong way. ਨਾਰਦਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਿ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਾਂਹੀ ॥ नारदि कहिआ सि पूज करांही ॥ Nāraḏ kahi▫ā sė pūj karāʼnhī. As Naarad instructed them, they are worshipping idols. ਅੰਧੇ ਗੁੰਗੇ ਅੰਧ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ॥ अंधे गुंगे अंध अंधारु ॥ Anḏẖe gunge anḏẖ anḏẖār. They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind. ਪਾਥਰੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਮੁਗਧ ਗਵਾਰ ॥ पाथरु ले पूजहि मुगध गवार ॥ Pāthar le pūjėh mugaḏẖ gavār. The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them. ਓਹਿ ਜਾ ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੇ ਤੁਮ ਕਹਾ ਤਰਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥ ओहि जा आपि डुबे तुम कहा तरणहारु ॥२॥ Ohi jā āp dube ṯum kahā ṯaraṇhār. ||2|| But when those stones themselves sink, who will carry you across? ||2|| I would say Hindu is a term which was adopted by followers of Sanatan Dharm but what beats me is why someone would name themselves after an insult. Again though I might be wrong but wasn't India already riddled with caste etc. before the Persians came? That would mean they are following Sanatan Dharam under a different name only. I wonder what Nirmala sants, and Bhindra Taksal have to say about this. From the works of Gyani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale I have read, thanks to some members on this forum I am sure he would have elaborated on the meaning of the word. So what if he was a firangi? As far as I am concerned hes one of the unsung heroes of Sikhi. Again hes much better than the likes of Trump.

100% right Veer Ji.