Prem

Whenever a brave Sikh Jihadi comes on this message board and tries to start a campaign against a publication or institution or individuals it is freighted with bullying tactics. Why, just the other day I read some Sikh Jihadi on one of the threads about supposed 'forced conversions' going on about boycotting the Sikh Times, in amongst the hate and bile. Guru Fateh

So Mr Machete, how do you know that there are not people in the world who look at porn simultaneously as they look at Maharaj as they surf the internet?

The internet is full of porn and other things like that, and yet Guru Granth Sahib translations share cyber space with it. What are you going to do about that, eh? Easier to threaten and bully some newspaper editors though. Guru Fateh

Well, nobody really knows the truth of what happened there, but it does seem to be part of a campaign of violence, intimidation and hate mongering generally going on. This alleged 'convertee' is actually being protected by police from Sikhs who carry axes and cans of petrol with them.

Great article. There are indeed facists and racists and fundamentalists who know nothing except hate and want to start a religious war and see blood on the streets of Birmingham. These fascists are not the ones who will suffer though --- it will be the innocent people of Birmingham who suffer while the culprits who are no better than Nazis and Terrorists sit back and grin at teh chaos and hate they create. Do everything you can do to repudiate these people --- keep evidence if you hear it or have it and report them to the police if nessecary. Sikhs are protected against hate and violence by race relations legislation. If any Sikhs are violating these laws by stirring hatred and violence against other people they must be forced to face the full fist of the law. Guru Fateh

Why have the police made investigations and found no evidence for any of this having taken place? What are they, part of an Islamic conspiracy? It's all a part of the violent mob thinking and fascist extremists in Birmingham who are in a militant and bloodthirsty mood and want to stir religious hatred and religious war ---- the kind that set fire to peoples cars and houses, go round with petrol cans and axes, thugs and extremists who want to stir passions for the expression of their own fanaticism and hate. I repeat --- the police have investigated this and found no evidence. Are you going to launch a battle against them next? It's so transparent what is going on it's unreal. Guru Fateh

I agree that's a problem sikh_supreme. But that is partly our fault for the way we are. And I don't just mean because we arent aggressive enough in countering them. But because we are too unsympathetic to the problems young Sikhs face. This 'forced conversion' issue is becoming a big embarassment for Sikhs. Marches, protests, then the police find no evidence of it happening at all in the manner described. Egg on the face big time. Being hijacked by extremists big time.

No --- in actual fact it is increasingly looking like the forced conversion issue is an urban myth and rumour mongering being used by Sikh extremists to foment hatred and violence by whipping up hysteria and seeking some kind of power or leadership. After having examined the instances and finding no evidence of any forced conversions the police now have to face being insulted and slandered by the likes of you. Amazing. We have Sikh mobs trying to burn entire families to death in Birmingham, going around with axes, going on marches, and all for nothing --- all for rumour and hearsay and nothing substantial. So what should angry Sikhs do now? Turn their anger against the police? Fight with them instead? What a nasty picture the Sikhs of Birmingham are painting to the world. Guru Fateh

So extremist, you think that using violence against innocent people and burning them to death is brave? The enemy within is YOU and people like YOU who are violent fascist extremists!

Even SaRpAnCh is talking sense on this! Everyone, spread the message of what people are trying to do, using emotive issues and language to create hatreds. This whole issue of the girl accused of having been forcibly converted ---- we dont know the truth, except that some Sikhs armed with axes and petrol attacked the house she was in and she is being protected by police. People are trying to turn a personal issue into a mass religious communal confrontation by using hatred and violent rhetoric. Everyone use your mind independently and dont let the racists and bigots win. Guru Fateh

Whatever happens with individuals is their own issue, Punjabi_Lions. There are Muslim women who date Sikh guys. That is their own issue. These people are trying to turn this into a holy war between Sikhs and Muslims in Birmingham. These are bigots and they are dangerous. They are using this story of the girl, about which we dont know the whole story, to pursue their own agenda. The moment you turn private affairs into communal religious confrontation and hatreds, we are in massive and deep trouble. These reckless bigots are trying to light a fire that can easily burn out of control. But I have no doubt they are dying to see it start. Everyone in Birmingham be vigilant against these people. Guru Fateh

A couple of years ago there were rumours that Pakistanis had raped a black girl in Lozells in Birmingham. Hate mongering people sent text messages around blaming all Asians for exploiting blacks, calling on black people to boycott all Asian shops. Ultimately it turned out the girl who was supposedly raped didnt even exist, but it resulted in the worst race riots in the country for decades as blacks and Muslims fought in Lozells, one man was murdered, shops destroyed, Sikhs and Hindus also innocently attacked. It seems that there are some Sikhs who would like to see a similar kind of thing. They are definitely pushing a very hate filled agenda in a city in which religious and racial issues can escalate dangerously. And as usual, it will not be these bigots who are the victims of these religious wars that they seek to promote. SIKHS! Be vigilant! Don't fall for the rumours and agenda of these people! Don't dance to the tune of the bigots! Guru Fateh

I just received this text message on a forward from a friend's cousin in Birmingham: U will b aware of the recently published cases of our sikh sisters being groomed in2 islam. Unfortunately this is now a everyday occurence. We need 2 wake up and stop funding these fanatics. STOP using there shops and businesses STOP eating their halal meat. Enough is enough. Pls forward 2 all. Looks to me like there is a deliberate campaign by some Sikhs in Birmingham to stir up communal tension and confrontation and hatred of Muslims. Note here how all Muslims are being blamed. There are other agendas at play here --- agendas of undifferentiating hate mongering. The way some people are talking they will only be happy if they see some kind of religious riot kicking off. Everyone needs to confront this kind of rabble rousing. We don't even know the truth of what has happened. There are other agendas at play here, people who are using this supposed forced conversion to create hatred. They are not addressing the underlying causes and ways that Islamic evangelism can be countered. They are just trouble makers. Everyone think independently and stay in chaardi kalaa. Stay away from the haters. Guru Fateh

Hey, there is a trial going on right now about the honour killing of a Sikh girl called Surjit Kaur Athwal by her in-laws because she wanted to divorce her husband at the High Court. The verdict will be all over the newspapers and media soon. So much for this being just a problem for Muslim extremists, right?

So for the sake of a simple thing like installing a ramp at the doorway of a Gurdwara, you think disabled people are being spoiled? As though we are 'making it easy' for them? Maybe we should just put up some barbed wire fences and broken glass around the place for non disabled people too so that we don't make it easy for them to get into Gurdwara either, that'll teach them a lesson! This is institutional discrimination against disabled Sikhs. But wait. I thought Sikhi believed in equality for all? Maybe not, maybe that was some other religion I heard about. Guru Fateh

Have some respect for Christians, sarpanch. Imagine someone making topics on a Christian website saying 'Did Guru Nanak exist'. It's disrespectful. Guru Fateh

Hooray! We are on TV again!

They are an arts organisation who promote Indian art and culture.

This is just an example of how backwards, out of touch, and arrogant some commitees are. Not only have they slapped a Sikh in the face by denying them acces to their Guru, they have also insulted Guruji by denying his child access to his bliss and meditation. And over and above all this --- they are breaking the law and could find themselves open to investigation. Under anti-discrimination law all buildings have to provide access to disabled people including providing entrances and ramps for wheelchairs. I think some commitee members will be liable for prosecution for this. They should be informed of their obligations and if they don't do anything about it, Sikhs should undertake to inform the nessecary official bodies to institute orders under the anti disability discrimination Act to force the Gurdwara to allow access. Guru Fateh

Yes indeed Hardeep, you make some very wise insights. All we can do is hope and pray that this is not a harbinger of things to come --- the dark days of the 1980's when darkness ruled the Earth for Sikhs. Too many twisted agendas at play here to celebrate as some excitable bedroom warriors are doing. Guru Fateh

Hardeep Singh, I don't think some people care about peace prevailing, I think they care about the flames getting higher and higher so that they can use this violence and unrest as an expression of their religion and politics! Guru Fateh

Well it looks like it's beginning to get out of control and I doubt there's anything any of us can do except to pray for peace and that there is not too much of a bloodbath!

Agree! Plus Sarpanch, every time you shout 'Death to EVERYONE' I look in amazement. Preaching death to people indiscriminately always leads to innocent people being attacked in the heat of the moment, always leads to innocent people being harmed. It is an indiscriminate mindset and it absolutely stinks. People who want to throw flames on the fire don't help ---- you praying Pakistan 'comes over the border', when they are the biggest throwers of flames on the fire, shows you don't have the slightest idea about this.

Pakistan cross the border? With the entire Pakistan army at war with the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Waziristan and NWFP, the whole of Karachi erupting in a bloodbath of ethnic violence, suicide bombs exploding left right and centre, Musharaff teetering on the knife edge between the West and the Mullahs, and the Americans having the entire Pakistani nation in its gunsights, you think people are worried that Pakistan is going to 'cross the border' into India? You need a reality check. This is getting out of control, out of perspective, out of hand. People are getting into an ecstacy as if UFOs are about to land in Punjab and give Sikhs special weapons to destroy all Sants and brahmins and declare independence for Khalistan with light sabres and laser guns. What we have is some seriously murky manipulation and dirty political games going on, and nobody should be triumphalist when the peace and security of Punjab is at risk. Guru Fateh

No disrespect my friend, I'm not a fan of the 'Super-Punjabi-Bhangra-Glassy' culture, in fact I see it as complacent and reactionary, but I really can't see the description you have of Gurdwaray and religious Sikhs truly facing up to issues such as female foeticide, honour killings, forced marriage etc etc --- because the way I see it is that they (we?) are just as much in denial about these things. I have never in my life seen anyone in a Gurdwara speak out against these things. I wish it was different but most people don't address these issues with any honesty at all, they are in denial and are sometimes even complicit in perpetuating the sexist and warped value systems of Punjabi culture by not standing against them strongly enough. Guru Fateh