Prem

What's the need to be done away with? Just read those links and see the evidence of rape and sexual abuse taking place at this Dera, and the fact that he has murdered journalists to prevent the truth coming out. He was in serious trouble anyway. The whole thing stinks. Other agendas at play here. Same old story. Guru Fateh

This guy has been summoned to answer charges of murdering two journalist who had found evidence of women being RAPED and SEXUALLY ABUSED at his Dera. In other words he was already in serious trouble. Quite convenient for him to have the heat taken off him with distractions like this. Either way, goonda rule and threatening innocent people is not the way to do things. Too many agendas at play here. Guru Fateh

Bhai Sahib, you're just as bad as the racist and extremist Muslims when you talk about them indiscriminately like that. Not all Muslims are like that. Nevertheless, this is a problem of extremism and it really is quite frightening. As for this girl who married a terrorist who has just got a life sentence, well he was recorded by MI5 saying that they should bomb the Ministry of Sound nightclub in London so that they can kill 'all those dancing slags' Makes you wonder what attracted her to him eh? Whoever is in control of the whyichoosesikhism.com and webiste against Muslim attempts of conversion of Sikhs should plaster this fact on their front page, and forward it round by e-mail to everyone you know. This is an irrefutable fact and people should know. Guru Fateh

Well that's the whole point Sarbloh. Those so inclined to pump themselves full of hot air of saving the Sikh panth can anoint anyone an evil Satan on a par with those from the past, and presumably deserve to have their heads cut off too. Hey in todays modern world perhaps they could make videos and post them on the internet ---- those mentally sick psychopaths in Iraq who cut the heads off people and put them on the web also believe they are righteously aiming to save the Islam panth from evil. Beware ---- when they decide they want to kill you, you are under threat. People can be abused and called an '<banned word filter activated>', others called 'traitor', simply for holding a different opinion from others. It doesnt take much for individuals to be called 'enemy of the panth' so they can deserve to have their head separated from their neck. *Gulp* Guru Fateh

More of the same bigotry, intolerance, aggressive slandering. Rupinder is NOT an <banned word filter activated>. He is a good man with an independent mind. He does not deserve to be abused and called names like that, just because someone disagrees with him. Especially in the context of Bhai Kanhaiya, whose message was that even those who fought against Sikhs to oppress them deserved compassion and help afterwards. Guru Fateh

Are you crazy? Are you demented? Since when has beheading been 'the Sikh way'? I think you're a troll, or you're in some way mentally challenged and have started to believe that the Muslim fundamentalist way of beheading people is 'the Sikh way'? I just despair with some of the people on this message board. Guru Fateh

Wow. And they say we are prejudiced when we warn them of the risks of converting to Islam.

Traitor to who?

Smethwick really seems to be the centre of all strange and extremist Sikh things these days, doesnt it? Amazing. I think the worst is yet to come. A gurdwara being the source of mass public violence and attempted murder. Now this. How depressing. The issue of Muslims grooming Sikh girls needs proper attention, but it should be done without extremism or hatemongering and in co-operation with the police. Guru Fateh

What are you talking about?

Sure, it is possible, but 90% of spousal abuse happens with the woman as the victim. And the abuse is much more likely to be physical, ie: beatings and in extreme cases, murder. The point I was making, though, was that if anyone male or female, is suffering oppression and abuse inside a marriage, then Sikhi has to clearly allow for them to be freed from that oppression and abuse, otherwise it becomes a tool in the hand of an oppressor. And Sikhi is never and has never been a tool for an oppressor. Guru Fateh

It's not the technology, it's the mentality of our 'leaders' --- they are ignorant, philistine, even stupid. Look how much of Sikh heritage, architecture and art has been destroyed by ignorant people with 'pindoo' mentality of getting the latest bling bling decoration in a gurdwara rather than preserving the heritage and art of our past? Too much money, too little sense. They have money so they have to spend it on something, right? This is the mentality of ignorant simpletons who lead us. Can you imagine the Catholics painting over the masterpieces of art at the Vatican, or destroying ancient churches just so they can have the latest double glazing? That's the difference between Sikh leaders and the leaders of other religions. Some people call them masands. I may not go that far, but they are bunch of ignorant, vulgar and philistine minded people with no concern for history, heritage, art or culture, treating our heritage as if they own it with the right to destroy / alter it as they please, rather than they are custodians whose obligation is to preserve and protect it. Guru Fateh

He's saying that your belief that divorce is wrong, or that people who divorce are commiting a sin, or are not in accordance with Sikhi, may be tenable for yourself if you have a happy marriage to a man who does not abuse you. Hopefully that will be the case. However, unfortunately not all Sikh women or men have happy marriages, and sometimes Sikh women are abused, beaten, persecuted, bullied, attacked, or are married to men who treat them badly, are psychos, or may be abusers in other ways (like he said, a paedophile), or have families who persecute them. In such a situation, why would the principles of Sikhi mean that a woman should suffer abuse, evil and misery, just because of the idea that it is wrong to divorce? If that is so, then Sikhi becomes complicit in evil and abuse, and we all know that is not the case. Guru Fateh

A rally of some sort might not be a bad idea. When that lad in Scotland claimed a racist attack, hundreds of Sikhs got up there to protest racism within two days. Now these shameful people have done their deed in Handsworth, we should protest in some way if their actions have repurcussions on us, and we should protest against them in force. Time to take a stand against the cancer within us.

The way I see it is this Lioness. It's our culture of 'honour' that prevents girls escaping domestic violence as much as they should. If a woman is being abused in a marriage, there are so many pressures on her to stay in the marriage by family, 'aunties', that kind of thing, that they don't ever escape. The power of the bullying mother-in-law is another thing. Unless that changes things will stay the same. I think in the West it is changing over generations, but it still persists. The main thing we can do is offer support to women in these situations. This means physical and legal support, both secular and as Sikhs. For example, if a Sikh woman is suffering, surely there should be resources and organisations run by Sikhs to help her? Also, the most vulnerable are the Indian women who get married to a guy from the UK or Canada or America --- they have no job, are in a different culture and are at the mercy of him and his family. This is why it is important for Sikh girls to be educated and have jobs ---- so that they can stand on their own feet and not worry about being destitute if their partner or his family start to abuse them.

Sorry for your loss, may VaheGuru give you and his family strength at this time of sadness Guru Fateh

Your hatred of Leicester shall motivate these Singh and Kaur to win the French Open as well as Wimbledon

This is a problem within our community that needs to be addressed. Domestic violence is not nessecarily higher in our families, but sadly it probably is much more denied. It stems from the family set up --- women who are being abused feel they cannot escape in case it brings 'shame' on their family and so they suffer in silence. I think men who don't stand up for their wives, or who resort to bullying and beating them, are cowards. What do you think we can do about it Kaur_Khalistani_Lioness?

Advice not needed because it was meaningless, trite, silly and a source of comedy :TH: Congratulations! I am happy for you. I have no anger or hate for anyone --- unlike you I don't make hilarious paranoid accusations about people being Hindu RSS subversives --- which is your hateful and angry style --- but as I said, I forgive you for it, I am full of love. Discussing does not equal crying, comprendez? Good. You see, I do it already, every day my friend ---- my seva is not restricted to posting on sikhsangat --- I already have children and am raising the next generation, and have shepherded two mona cousins of mine into keeping Kesh, albeit tentatively, encouraging them to wear 'cool looking' bandanas to begin with, grow their hair, slowly slowly. I will always do that, because I have love and tolerance for all people, even those who project Sikhi as a subset of 'gangster and ho and smokin' blunts' rap music. Especially them. :TH: Guru Fateh

I have visions of a Singh or Kaur from Leicester winning Wimbledon one day

Rupinder Singh What an excellent post and reminder to us all that Sikhi contains the righteousness that can guide all our actions. Maha Pappi --- Rupinder is not trying to cause any trouble, he's reminding us of Bhai Kanhaiya's actions and greatness in the light of recent events. I thank Rupinder for this and encourage him and everyone to speak and draw lessons from Sikhi whenever their conscience urges them to in the face of wickedness that afflicts us! Guru Fateh

Sikh_Supreme, you're advice is irrelevant because it just is pure nonsense. I understand your feelings of humiliation with all that egg dripping down your face from last time to the extent that you try and patronise and condescend to me now, in order to salvage some self esteem after you made yourself look so foolish with your silly accusations back then. That's fine, you're not mature enough to forget about it and you hold grudges, your pride is hurt, I understand. In my personal life I take care of a family, bring my work home almost every night from the office, look after my parents, cherish my children, work for a living, follow Manchester United, visit the Gurdwara, what do you do? Do you even have a job or are you student? Do you want to continue with personal attacks on me? Do you really want to go down that road? I have no personal problems and hold no personal grudge against you at all, and I am a content man --- I have a large loving family, a wife I love, children I read stories to at bedtime, friends I play football with when I get the time, I am a happy and peace loving man. Akaash and Sarbloh articulated good responses and I agree with them.

Yes -- logic.Do you think expressing your Sikh identity should be manifested in aspiring to keeping Kesh first of all, or producing ego driven Tupac Shakur videos that project Sikhi as a form of Gangsta Rap, probably something like, I don't know, Wu Tang Clan or something? Logic tells you that that is what I was commenting on. Logic tells you there is code for the expression of Sikh identity. It begins with being humble and keeping kesh. That is logical. Don't you reckon? sikh_supreme, you really make me laugh :TH: Last time you were so full of spleen and anger you lost control of your mind and started accusing me of being a 'Hindu' RSS supporter! Egg on your face has placified you that's good. I hold no grudges for you losing control, but you should know that I do naam simran every day, and am full of love for all, even when I express myself forcefully. Guru Fateh

Oooh thanks for the advice Gianni-ji! :TH: No irony that my name is Prem --- I am full of PREM for all people even wannabe gangsters who try to bend Sikhi into a version of Gangsta Rap --- I smother my love on them and call them for their stupidity full of PYAR and LOVE and PREM --- I will give them a hug if I ever see them, and still tell them they are stupid, then hug them again and tell them TO KEEP KESH IF YOU WANT TO MANIFEST YOUR SIKH IDENTITY If you want to be a gangsta thug then don't do that, and go and sell weed, call girls 'bitches' etc etc etc And yes I love them despite that, just as I love you too sikh_supreme! Guru Fateh

Yes bro, I'm angry about the idiots who do this kind of thing, the idiots who disrespect Sikhi and Kakkars and insult us all and give us a bad name like what happened in Handsworth, and I'm annoyed by these 'Sexy Boy' monah 'Sikh Gangsters' who smoke weed and say 'Biggie and Tupac are shaheeds man' and think Khanda and Ek Onkar are macho symbols for them to tatoo on their arms and then they are such pussycat COWARDS that they can't keep kesh themselves. These people should annoy everyone! These are the 'youth'! Too COWARDLY to keep Kesh but tough enough to worship Tupac and want to associate Sikh with gangster rap! Yeah Yeah Yeah I'm a Sikh baby don't mess don't test! I look like a Mexican and think I'm in Cypress Hill! FOOLS and COWARDS! My ten year old cousin who keeps Kesh in a gora area is braver and tougher than these wannabe phony gangster 'look at my hairstyle and tatoo' cowards, heck, one of them is showing off his six pack abs! Yeah look at me I have a six pack abs and I'm Sikh I'm so tough! What a bunch of clowns! And fools! And Cowards! Guru Fateh