BhForce

Yes, you should. Respecting your parents is a big deal in Sikhi. So is forgiveness. If your uncle hasn't repeated his wrongdoings in 15 years, it's wrong to hold it against him. You don't have to give a reply to every single thing that people say. But you can definitely argue things with your friends of your own age.

I think we'd be well served first of all by not calling each other agents and traitors, LOL. The example of Pakistan is a good example that we need to be careful of. There's the landlock issue (no sea access). Besides export and import problems, communications and Internet access become difficult too. Then the issue of natural resources (oil, iron, coal, water). Then the issue of Hazur/Patna Sahib. On the other hand, you have the example of Dubai, a country which has taken charge of its future and has been prospering. It has a majority population of outsiders, but it controls their political participation. It also has a moderately strict version of Islam, with leeway for non-Muslims. The model of Europe is also one to consider. There are many countries that couldn't survive on their own, but they act as a unit. You can go from one European country to another with just a passport and open borders. Many people want the same model for Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Burma, Bangladesh, etc.

Agree. We're in a peculiar situation since anybody can come in our (Sikhs') meetings. As the Sant ji mentioned, the planning meeting was held in a gurdwara. We can't go into their meetings that they do behind closed doors.

LOL, both sides of an issue, when you can't present anymore arguments, just call the other an agent. Anyway, folks, how about cutting out the portions of the quotes and just leaving the part that you're responding to so the post doesn't become 10 screens long.

It's hard to make blanket statements. There are Hindus who are hard-core haters. They are ones that Kabir Ji speaks of when he says that those who worship stones will drown in the kala pani (the deep black waters of hell). Then there are those that, for whatever reason, can't make the leap as Mehtab Singh, Bhagat Puran SIngh, and others made in this lifetime. They don't worship stones, and they prefer to read Gurbani. There are also those that don't really get into politics or religion. We don't need to alienate the latter 2 groups without reason.

OK, that's more reasonable.

In regard to 1978, the killing was done by the Nirankaris. Badal could claim innocence. In 2009, the killing was done by the police under the command of Badal. He is responsible.

Panj Granthi is the name of a kind of gutka or pothi. It contains selections from Gurbani. It often contains (other than nitnem banis): Sukhmani Sidh Gost Bavan Akhri Dakhni Oangkar Asa di war

Very good point. All the nindaks of S. Dhadrianwale have egg on their faces since the events of the past few days in Ludhiana. S. Dhadrianwale was inches from being shot; the bullet hit his driver's arm, instead, who had lurched forward. I don't know of a single ਭੜੂਆ (man who sings while women dance) who was present at the Sikh protest, how about you das_nimana or yoda?

Thanks for whoever did this great seva. I hope no one will mind if I would ask for the next step: Could some multimedia wizard break up the files according to banis? Like, instead of page 11-64, have "Jaap Sahib", "Bachittar Natak", "Akal Ustat", etc. Normally, when you put some MP3s on your media player, you want to listen to specific banis, not to specific page numbers, and then start and stop in the middle of a bani.

Please note: Not sure about anyone else, but Sant Baba Ranjit Singh Ji Dhadrianwale have been visiting since Saturday, and Singh's from their Jatha have been sent in turns every two hours to see the injured victims. Please do not spread any false propaganda without backing. This missionary-type false propaganda is not needed during these times. Dhaas also urges you to refer to certain Mahanpurakhs with a little more respect for the obvious reasons. Please give some documentary proof.We dont believe in hearsay . The inverted commas show the respect for Sant Samaaj "mahaapurakhs" but with some reservations. The funny thing is, das_nimana, how could you possibly state with certainty that no mahapurkh had visited a single hospital? It's easy to prove a positive, but very hard to prove a negative. What sort of proof do you require other that their own testimony? You don't think that the Indian media are going to be camping out in the hospitals with the Sikh injured, do you? Why do you think S. Dhadrianwale wouldn't go to the hospital? I believe he would have gone no matter which Singhs were injured, but the fact is, half the Singhs at the protest were from his jatha. So, why wouldn't he go? Granted, police had all sorts of blocks preventing movement, but he still managed to reach them. Oh, by the way, when Nirvair S Khalsa posts some documentation, will you apologise for making false accusations?

Agreed. S. Bhindrawale did not get sucked into debates on meat, Ragmala, etc. during the morchas because it would have been a distraction at the time. Read the book. Argue at a later time.

Nobody has responded to Mehtab Singh so far. Does anybody have an actual source for this news? If it's by personal communication with Singhs in Punjab, then say that.

The Wonders of the Dasam Duar, Only for Gursikhs The charlatan Mahesh Jha (i.e., "Ashutosh") is taking his chelas for a ride. He gives them a kind of mantar which supposedly gives them parkash. That's why he calls his group of thieves the Divya Jyoti Jagran Sansthan (Inner Light Awakening Institution). But the ability to give true parkash, darshan of God and not mere magical powers, is given exclusively by God to the Satguru (Guru Nanak). Only the Satguru has the power to open the Dasam Duar, upon which the seeker sees the light of God. We need to get this message out to Sikhs because something like half the people there were "Sikhs" with turbans. ਇਸੁ ਗੁਫਾ ਮਹਿ ਅਖੁਟ ਭੰਡਾਰਾ ॥ Within this cave, there is an inexhaustible treasure. ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਰਿ ਅਲਖ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ Within this cave, the Invisible and Infinite Lord abides. Satguru promises the divine light, no need for "Ashutosh": ਅੰਤਰਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਅਗਿਆਨੁ ਅੰਧੇਰੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥ Deep within, the Divine Light has dawned, and the darkness of ignorance has been dispelled. To achieve the opening of the Dasam Duar, it is necessary to restrain the lower passions: ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥ Those who close off the nine gates, and restrain the wandering mind, ਦਸਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਪਾਏ ॥ come to dwell in the Home of the Tenth Gate. ਓਥੈ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਵਜਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੬॥ There, the Unstruck Melody of the Shabad vibrates day and night. Through the Guru's Teachings, the Shabad is heard. ||6|| Without the true Word, there's only darkness, no matter how much "Ashutosh" may protest: ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਆਨੇਰਾ ॥ Without the Shabad, there is only darkness within. Only the Satguru has the key to the Dasam Gate, no one else. I.e., only Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and not Ashutosh, Bhaniarewala, Sirsawala, Beaswala, Bhaniwala, etc. ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਥਿ ਕੁੰਜੀ ਹੋਰਤੁ ਦਰੁ ਖੁਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੭॥ The key is in the hands of the True Guru; no one else can open this door. By perfect destiny, He is met. ||7|| ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ p 124 http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=124&L=9&id=5066

Great idea. It would be wonderful if kirtanias could sing the shabads posted in this thread to let the sangat hear what Gurbani says about gurnindaks: Gurmat Regarding Charlatans Like Ashutosh

There used to be a very small gurdwara to commemorate these Singhs shaheedi right behind the building of the Akal Takhat. These days, the Badal SGPC constructed a huge akhand path building in its place, and put a small board where the Baba Gurbakhsh Singh Gurdwara used to be. I don't know if the board is still there or not since it was just resting there not attached to anything.

raj, are we going to talk about who was there, who was in front, who took bullets, again?? How productive is it to sow seeds of doubt on each other? Why don't you come out and say exactly who you think is an agent. A bullet went right past S. Dhadrianwale and instead hit his driver in the arm who was next to him. Is that sufficient to prove he's not an agent, or does the man have to die, too? They definitely did not send the naujwans forward to take bullets. They told them to stay put because they saw that the scoundrel police didn't have any non-lethal crowd control methods, they were just going straight for shooting bullets. As S. Dhadrianwale mentioned in the interview (transcript is above, read it please), they would have killed hundreds of Singhs that day without any remorse. So everyone was told to just stay put. Some Singhs still moved forward, which is their choice, I guess, and in no way am I dissing them, but keep in mind, too, that in the Jaito da morcha, Singhs would not move an inch unless their jathedar told them to. Please don't come on the board and start talking trash about the leaders of the morcha. The fact is, we have to show resolve and caution at the same time. These animals have zero regard for Sikhs lives and are just looking for excuses to kill.

If they don't televise it, the very least they can do is just capture it on a digital camera and upload to Youtube.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji begins the Bachittar Natak with the above eulogy to God in the form of a sword. While this provides us with a view to one aspect of God, it also instructs us in the proper use of weapons. In the hands of a saint, and used for good purposes, they are approved. Use in the way the police did, they are accursed. The chant is immediately preceded by this heading: ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਾਲ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਉਸਤਤਿ ॥

Does anybody think to cut down the "quote" text when you're responding to just the few lines that you are responding to? instead of making huge 100-line responses.

Good idea. Don't make an enemy of the average Hindu for no reason whatsoever.

Agreed. Put a quote on there by S. Bhindrawale saying that a Hindu should be a good Hindu, a Muslim a good Mussalman, and Sikh a good Sikh.

Charlatans are Beaten in the Afterworld There was a time when Pirthi Chand was running his own guruship parallel to the Guruship of Guru Arjan Dev Ji. Bhai Gurdas Ji and Baba Budha Ji tried to convince Prithi Chand of his folly, but to no avail. In the end, Bhai Gurdas Ji had to write these verses regarding the false and depraved ones who dare to mimic and challenge the True Guru. Such will also be the state of the likes of Ashutosh: ਨੀਲਾਰੀ ਦੇ ਮਟ ਵਿਚਿ ਪੈ ਗਿਦੜੁ ਰਤਾ । Once a jackal fell into a dyer's vat and got dyed. ਜੰਗਲ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਜਾਇ ਕੈ ਪਾਖੰਡੁ ਕਮਤਾ । Taking advantage of its changed colour, it went into the jungle and started dissembling (the animals there). ਦਰਿ ਸੇਵੈ ਮਿਰਗਾਵਲੀ ਹੋਇ ਬਹੈ ਅਵਤਾ । Sitting arrogantly in its lair, it would frighten the deer into serving it. ਕਰੈ ਹਕੂਮਤਿ ਅਗਲੀ ਕੂੜੈ ਮਦਿ ਮਤਾ । Intoxicated by false pride it started ruling (over the animals) with great pomp. ਬੋਲਣਿ ਪਾਜ ਉਘਾੜਿਆ ਜਿਉ ਮੂਲੀ ਪਤਾ । As eructation indicates the eating of radish leaf, it also got exposed when it (having listened to the howls of other jackals) also started howling. ਤਿਉ ਦਰਗਹਿ ਮੀਣਾ ਮਾਰੀਐ ਕਰਿ ਕੂੜੁ ਕੁਪਤਾ ॥੨॥ Thus, the dissembler out of his own hypocrisis is beaten hollow in the court of the Lord. Vaaran Bhai Gurdas (36) Mahesh Jha (i.e., "Ashutosh") is basically like the jackal above. Surrounded by lackeys, and protected by an elaborate system of ruses, he keeps up the pretense of being some kind of advanced spiritual man. But his kith receive no honour in God's court.

Khalsa's Ire Aroused Guru Gobind Singh Ji was watching the Battle of Bhangani. When an arrow scraped the Master's self, it around the Master's josh. Sikhs have sung the following shabad to remember the incident, and to also note the fact that the Khalsa, once aroused, comes fully into action, enemies beware. ਰਸਾਵਲ ਛੰਦ ॥ RASAAVAL STANZA ਜਬੈ ਬਾਣ ਲਾਗਯੋ ॥ ਤਬੈ ਰੋਸ ਜਾਗਯੋ ॥ When the edge of the arrow touched my body, it kindled my resentment. ਕਰੰ ਲੈ ਕਮਾਣੰ ॥ ਹਨੰ ਬਾਣ ਤਾਣੰ ॥੩੧॥ I took the bow in my hand and aimed and shot the arrow.31. ਸਬੈ ਬੀਰ ਧਾਏ ਸਰੋਘੰ ਚਲਾਏ ॥ All the warriors fled, when a volley of arrow was showered. ਤਬੈ ਤਾਕਿ ਬਾਣੰ ॥ ਹਨਯੋ ਏਕ ਜੁਆਣੰ ॥੩੨॥ Then I aimed the arrow on a warrior and killed him.32. ਹਰੀਚੰਦ ਮਾਰੇ ॥ ਸੁ ਜੋਧਾ ਲਤਾਰੇ ॥ Hari Chand was killed and his brave soldiers were trampled. ਸੁ ਕਾਰੋੜ ਰਾਯੰ ॥ ਵਹੈ ਕਾਲ ਘਾਯੰ ॥੩੩॥ The chief of Kot Lehar was seized by death.33. ਰਣੰ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਭਾਗੇ ॥ ਸਬੈ ਤ੍ਰਾਸ ਪਾਗੇ ॥ The hill-men fled from the battlefield, all were filled with fear. ਭਈ ਜੀਤ ਮੋਰੀ ॥ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਾਲ ਕੇਰੀ ॥੩੪॥ I gained victory through the favour of the Eternal Lord (KAL).34. Bachittar Natak. (Apni Katha)

ਬਿਨਾ ਕੇਸ ਸਸਤ੍ਰੰ ਨਰੰ ਭੇਡ ਜਾਨੋ ਗਹਿ ਕਾਨ ਕਿਤੈ ਲੈ ਸਿਧਾਨੋ (Rehitnama)