BhForce

The answer is, I don't know. This is just a forum where people post short anonymous messages to each other to communicate. This is not a paid therapy session where I can diagnose you and ask all the questions I want interactively. So, if that's what you've been doing, then state that, which you now have. As far as not "judging" you for cutting your hair? Why not? Not cutting your hair is the first thing Guru Nanak ji said to Bhai Mardana (and others). You say you've been doing amrit vela and Gurbani for half a year. I hope that Gurbani has affected you to the core: ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਬਾਣੀ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਅਣੀਆਲੇ ਅਣੀਆ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਜੇ ॥ Har Praem Baanee Man Maariaa Aneeaalae Aneeaa Raam Raajae || The Bani of the Lord's Love is the pointed arrow, which has pierced my mind, O Lord King. ਜਿਸੁ ਲਾਗੀ ਪੀਰ ਪਿਰੰਮ ਕੀ ਸੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਜਰੀਆ ॥ Jis Laagee Peer Piranm Kee So Jaanai Jareeaa || Only those who feel the pain of this love, know how to endure it. ਆਸਾ (ਮਃ ੪) ਛੰਤ( ੧੫) ੨:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੪੪੯ ਪੰ. ੨ Raag Asa Guru Ram Das If you've been affected by Gurbani at all, you haven't felt the desire to do what Guru Sahib wants? On this path, you have to do what Guru Sahib wants: ਇਤੁ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਚਲੇ ਭਾਈਅੜੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਸੁ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥ Eith Maarag Chalae Bhaaeearrae Gur Kehai S Kaar Kamaae Jeeo || So walk on this Path, O brothers; do that work which the Guru tells you to do. ਸੂਹੀ ਗੁਣਵੰਤੀ (ਮਃ ੧) ੩:੭ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੬੩ ਪੰ. ੪ Raag Suhi Guru Arjan Dev In no case should the Panj Piyare grant you the gift of Amrit because you either decided to take Amrit on a whim, or secondly you've known for 6 months you want to take Amrit, but you couldn't be bothered to keep your hair. Are there other bajjer kurehits you've been committing for the last 6 months (Halal, adultery, drugs), and you're just going to stop the very day of the Amrit ceremony? The Punj Piyare should tell you to first keep your hair, and then if you can withstand the stares or hostility that some people have towards the Sikh saroop, then you can come back and ask for Amrit. Look, it's great you want to take Amrit. I just don't know why you wouldn't want to show your commitment.

Bro, is Baisakhi also for Hindus like @Singh123456777? You do know that Baisakhi is celebrated across India as a Hindu new year, right?

I would have sympathized with you regarding the pompous attitude of some amritdharis before you started in the direction of saying Amrit is useless. No bhagti is truly possible without Satguru, although everybody calls himself a bhagat: ਭਗਤੁ ਭਗਤੁ ਕਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥ Bhagath Bhagath Kehai Sabh Koee || Everyone calls himself, ""Devotee, devotee."" ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਨਾਮਿ ਨ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥ Bin Sathigur Bhagath N Hovee Naam N Lagai Piaar || Without the True Guru, there is no devotional worship, and no love of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ਸਲੋਕ ਵਾਰਾਂ ਤੇ ਵਧੀਕ (ਮਃ ੩) (੩੯):੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੪੧੭ ਪੰ. ੧੩ Salok Vaaraan and Vadheek Guru Amar Das Some people may claim to do bhagti without the Satguru, but it can't truly be done without the Guru: ਮਨਮੁਖ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ਰਾਮ ॥ Manamukh Bhagath Karehi Bin Sathigur Vin Sathigur Bhagath N Hoee Raam || The self-willed manmukhs practice devotional rituals without the True Guru, but without the True Guru, there is no devotion. ਸੂਹੀ (ਮਃ ੩) ਛੰਤ (੨) ੩:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੬੮ ਪੰ. ੧੭ Raag Suhi Guru Amar Das You have to be a Gurmukh to do bhagti: ਸੋ ਭਗਤੁ ਜੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਜਲਾਇਆ ਰਾਮ ॥ So Bhagath Jo Guramukh Hovai Houmai Sabadh Jalaaeiaa Raam || Those devotees who become Gurmukh burn away their ego, through the Word of the Shabad. ਸੂਹੀ (ਮਃ ੩) ਛੰਤ (੨) ੧:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੬੮ ਪੰ. ੧੦ Raag Suhi Guru Amar Das I won't bother denying that your parents may be hearing some sort of sounds when they sit down and close their eyes. But that doesn't mean they've reached Sachkhand. About bhagats, it is said they erase their personal desires: ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਵਹਿ ਜਿਨ ਗੁਣ ਅਵਗਣ ਪਛਾਣੇ ਰਾਮ ॥ Har Bhagath Karehi Vichahu Ap Gavavehi Jin Gun Avagan Pashhanae Ram || They worship the Lord in devotion, and eradicate self-conceit from within themselves; they understand merits and demerits. ਪੰਨਾ ੩੩੧ Raag Suhi Guru Amar Das So if your parents have eradicated their ego, then why do they not accept Guru ji's command to take Amrit?

Wow, just a few posts ago, you were a poor, innocent mona worried about being called a haraamzada, and now you're an expert on Khanda amrit, charnamrit, Sikh history, theology, etc. Oh, and also, you remember your previous lifetimes? To think I felt sorry for you and was actually going to post a sympathetic note. What in the world is naam charan? If you remember your past lives, and your parents have anhad naad, I guess you're set. You don't even need Guru ji. Guru ji just must be dispensable for you. Oh, I forgot that there was another element to the SGPC definition of a Sikh: having faith in the amrit of the 10th Guru. That doesn't mean you have to have taken it, just that you have faith in it. Which would have to mean that you don't hate it, or think it's useless. But you obviously seem to, so I guess you wouldn't qualify.

If you have hair only long enough for a ramaal, don't you think you're rushing into Amrit? If your hair is short that must mean you were cutting it only a few weeks ago. So you just decided on a whim to take amrit? Don't you think you should perfect your rehit (make sure you can go 6 months or a year waking up at Amrit vela and doing paath) before taking Amrit? Secondly, there's no reason you can't tie a turban over cut hair. Hindus do it for their weddings (so do mona Sikhs). Moreover, Guru Gobind Singh ji's 52 Hukums state to wear a turban, as do many rehitnamas. So I can't imagine the Panj Piyaras allowing you in with a ramaal.

IMHO, I agree Koran probably has major problems with its authenticity. But, on the other hand, I don't think it really matters. I mean, if, somehow, we could find the "original" Koran, would we then start accepting and following it? No. So what's the point? I.e., the Koran is barbaric as it is (edited form), and was probably barbaric in its "original", unedited form.

Never heard of that, though I do agree that they did their best to undermine Sikhism. For example, they went to all the villages and had all the written matter they could find burned. Whatever survived was hidden.

But on what basis do you so this? Don't take this in the wrong way. Just some friendly prodding to uncover stuff which I may not be aware of. Probably different? Based on history granths or just speculation? Very true. But the main point showed by Guru Nanak ji was rejection of parikarma of the "sacred" fire in favor of parikarma of sacred Gurbani. Yes, that may be the case.

Which museum was that?

According to the definition by the SGPC, you can call yourself a Sikh if you believe in the simple formulation above, so you don't have to be amritdhari by that definition. Of course, according to Guru Sahib, you're only a Sikh if you follow Guru ji's orders (which include Amrit). Well, at Hazur Sahib, yes. Among Punjabis, there's been so much decline, it would be so difficult to enforce that rule. Probably very few. Even if this were so, what would the big deal be about having to give up tobacco, alcohol, adultery, stealing, etc.? Would that be so bad? Would it be so bad to have to hear your own Guru's words every day early in the morning? Would you consider that some kind of hell? Really, that's stuff you should be doing anyway if you consider yourself a Sikh. No, bro, you're not a haramzada, relax. Taking amrit is Guru Nanak ji's Sikhi. It was called charanamrit back then administered by the Gurus personally, later changed by the 10th Guru to Khanda Amrit administered by Panj Piyare. The problem is just that our panth became so weak after we lost the Sikh Raaj that now we think it's OK to go your entire life without taking Amrit. Anyways, if you say you're parents do bhagti but aren't ready for Amrit, that's great. Keep doing that. And also avoid all the prohibitions that you can. And do all the bani you can. Basically, if you think you're not ready for Amrit, you should still live like an Amritdhari Sikh (except maybe the hair if you can't bring yourself to keep your hair just yet).

What? So you think Anand Karaj was just invented in the Singh Sabha period? Sikh history granths refence "anand" as a form of Sikh marriage prior to the arrival of the British. Sikh history relates that Guru Nanak ji married by doing parikarma of mul mantar (so, kind of like parikarma of Guru Granth Sahib). What's the essential difference? Finally, why do you say that (if Anand Karaj was invented in the 20th century), that it was created for Amritdharis?

OK, I agree he was a fool. He'll get his just reward. But, by having an Anand Karaj, he and his wife are "in the Sikh fold". Later, he has kids, and they'll grow up knowing that they are "Sikhs". They may not have much of an idea of what that's supposed to mean, but when they get older, they can google for "Sikh", and they'll find plenty of resources to get them started on their journey, if that's what they choose. If they're not even in the fold, that can never, ever happen. What would that be, bro? Waking up 30min late for Amrit Vela? Or scr*wing a woman other than your wife? The former can be easily forgiven. Why would you ever think of doing the latter, no matter if you had an Anand Karaj or a court wedding? Agreed, but what you do want? Only weddings allowed where not only both the bride and groom are wearing blue cholas, no makeup, and also the entire rest of the baraat also have to wear blue cholas? I don't really think you can make a rule about makeup, though you can preach to avoid excess.

The #1, big thing about Gursikhi is obeisance towards the Guru. And all those monas you're disparaging have that. And if they don't have "knowledge" about Sikhism, then teach that. The gurdwara can given them a short pamphlet on Sikhi, or they can even require the couple to take a 2-day course or whatever. That only applies to non-Sikhs claiming to be Sikhs. It doesn't apply to Sikhs stating they are Sikhs. Note that the definition of Sikh says nothing about whether you're following rehat or not. What would they be "getting away with"? They're stating they have faith in the 10 Gurus. They're not lying about being in rehit, because that question was not even asked. No, posing an Amritdhari without doing rehit/maryada is pakhand. Merely stating your belief in the Gurus is not pakhand.

There's a strange trend going on where when you don't agree with something, you don't reference Gurbani, Sikh history, theology, or Sikh saints. You just call it "Abrahamic", or alternatively "Brahministic". Again, said with no reference whatsoever. If you had bothered to read the excellent posts of @N30S1NGH here and here, you would realize that some Sikh saints believe Sachkhand to be a state, others a place. In the end, the only way you'll reach Sachkhand (the place or the state) is through Naam Simran (mediation). So what's the point of fighting?

Hmm, very good point, I haven't heard that expressed anywhere else, but it can be arguably thought to be absolutely true.

No, no day is considered holy in itself. In Sikhism, any day or time period is considered holy in which you remember God: ਧੰਨੁ ਪਲੁ ਚਸਾ ਘੜੀ ਪਹਰ ਧੰਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਥਿਤਿ ਸੁ ਵਾਰ ਸਭਾਗੇ। Dhannu Palu Chasaa Gharhee Paharu Dhannu Dhannu Diti Su Vaar Sabhaagay | Blessed is the moment, the blinking time, the hour, the date, the day (during which you remember the Lord). ਧੰਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਦਿਹੁ ਰਾਤਿ ਹੈ ਪਖੁ ਮਾਹ ਰੁਤਿ ਸੰਮਤਿ ਜਾਗੇ। Dhannu Dhannu Dihu Raati Hai Pakhu Maah Ruti Sanmati Jaagay | Day, night, fortnight, months, season and the year are auspicious wherein mind tries to rise (to divinity). ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੬ ਪਉੜੀ ੧੭ ਪੰ. ੨ That said, it is considered a good thing to mark special events (such as the Gurus' births): ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਭਾਇ ਭਗਤਿ ਗੁਰਪੁਰਬ ਕਰੰਦੇ। Kurabaanee Tinhaan Gurasikhaan Bhaai Bhagati Gurapurab Karanday | I am sacrifice unto those Gursikhs who celebrate Guru’s anniversaries with full devotion. ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੨ ਪਉੜੀ ੨ ਪੰ. ੭ Theoretically, all the 10 Gurus birth dates (prakash purab) would be open to celebration, but practically, most Gurdwaras only celebrate (to a major extent) the births of the 1st Guru Nanak Dev ji and the 10th Guru Gobind Singh ji. Other Gurus' dates might be marked by a few words during the normal morning congregation. Places that are specific to a certain Guru (like Goindal Sahib for the 3rd Guru) would usually celebrate that Guru in a major way (with an uninterrupted reading of the Sikh scriptures plus a hymn singing program). Additionally, there are Baisakhi, a farming festival celebrated as the birth of the Khalsa (order of initiated Sikhs), Divali (celebrated as the return of the 6th Guru Hargobind ji from prison). Hola Mohalla is celebrated at Anandpur Sahib as mock war practice. Dussehra is celebrated at Hazur Sahib. The installation of the first copy of Guru Granth Sahib is celebrated at Amritsar. Finally, there are the martyrdoms of 5th Guru Arjan Dev ji and 9th Guru Tegh Bahadur ji. Birth of Guru Nanak - November or so Birth of Guru Gobind Singh - December or January Hola Mohalla - March Baisakhi - Apr 13 or so Divali - October or so 5th Guru martyrdom - June 9th Guru martyrdom - November/December

Quite simple: You don't talk about "practicing Sikhs", rather about "believing Sikhs". The definition of Sikh in the SGPC rehat maryada does not say you're a Sikh only if you wake up at 1am in the morning, or have a beard and turban. It merely states that you believe in Akal Purakh, the 10 Gurus, their Bani, Guru Granth Sahib, and have no other religion. If you can state that (in a statement with your signature), then you're a Sikh. I agree that it's totally meaningless for someone who doesn't even believe in Guru Sahib to have an Anand Karaj. The requirement to state a belief in Guru Sahib will neatly rule out any marriages with non-Sikhs, such as Christians and Muslims. If a Gurdwara wants, they could even increase the strictness by requiring the marrying couple to take out an ad in the newspaper stating their declaration of faith, and that they are no longer believe in Jesus, Mohammad, or whoever.

No, otherwise it will just turn into an empty ritual. OK, so what's your definition of "practising Sikh"? One who carries a 3ft kirpan? Do you carry one? Even if you do, do you carry the other 4 shasters? If not, you are ineligible for an Anand Karaj, as you're not a practicing Sikh.

The problem is you didn't ask before you got married about these things. A lot of people just get married based on looks or money. Anyway, you're stuck where you are now. You can either choose to make the best of your situation or make a bad situation worse. A lotus flower is beautiful and unblemished, but it floats on dirty water: ਜੈਸੇ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਨਿਰਾਲਮੁ ਮੁਰਗਾਈ ਨੈ ਸਾਣੇ ॥ Jaisae Jal Mehi Kamal Niraalam Muragaaee Nai Saanae || The lotus flower floats untouched upon the surface of the water, and the duck swims through the stream; ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਤਰੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੇ ॥ Surath Sabadh Bhav Saagar Thareeai Naanak Naam Vakhaanae || With one's consciousness focused on the Word of the Shabad, one crosses over the terrifying world-ocean. O Nanak, chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਗੋਸਟਿ (ਮਃ ੧) ੫:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੯੩੮ ਪੰ. ੧੫ Raag Raamkali Guru Nanak Dev And that is how you'll have to be, floating on top of the worldly muck. As for your in-laws talk, you don't have to engage them in that. When men start talking politics, it's quite common for women not to take interest. Similarly, just don't engage them on that topic. Just talk about the weather, kids' schools, and so on. Finally, you can teach your own children love of Guru Sahib, teach them Gurmukhi and Bani, and read them Sakhis. There are many, many men who have given up alcohol after seeing their kids going the Sikh way. Just don't push it.

Excellent, balanced answer. You're coming along quite well in your Sikh walk.

Having 150 million Sikhs or not doesn't have to do with whether 1984 would have happened. The fact is governments rely on the fact that masses of people are usually cowed by a show of force. No one wants to be "that guy", the guy that gets mowed down with bullet fire. Of course, if even 50000 people were to step forward, forget 150 million, Indira's army couldn't have done a thing. They could have killed maybe 10000, but they'd probably run out of bullets after that. And then the other 40000 would overpower the remaining soldiers. But who wants to be among that first 10000? Nobody, that's why it doesn't matter if you had 150 million. In any case, the poorly written article wasn't claiming 150 million Sikhs in Punjab. It was referencing a claim about "forgotten Sikhs" in other states of India who aren't being properly counted as Sikhs.

Don't most restaurants (other than hip bars) play Muzak (background music)? Anyway, if you're skeptical about mainstream chain restaurants, you're right. Load yourself up on bad grease, high carbs, and stale ingredients, etc, from McDonalds, etc., and spend half your weekly salary on a coffee from Starbucks. Absolutely. The Gulf countries (whose airlines a lot of our people use to get into India) funded ISIS in Syria to fight moderate "Muslim" Bashar Assad. Oh, and another thing: The meat available in India (in restaurants) is almost always Halal, unless you find a Jhatka butcher, which is unlikely. So don't eat meat. (Would actually avoid restaurants that serve meat, period.)

Like followers of Ram Rai or Suraj Mal? Highly insignificant.

There are about 10,000 Sikhs in Nanded, out of a population of a half million.

Yeah, it's 2%, the same percentages as Sikhs are of all of India. The only reason you may have thought a huge amount of the local people were Sikhs was because you never ventured out beyond the lanes surrounding Hazur Sahib. 99% of Sikhs visiting Hazur Sahib go out and see the city of Nanded. It's kind of like saying, "the world is becoming Sikh" because you did a sample on the streets outside of the Darbar Sahib.