BhForce

Basically, these people are the kith of a whole bunch of other Sikhs today who rely on their intellect and have no regard for devotion or actual practice of Sikhi. Since they have no practical basis, including amrit sanchar and nitnem banis, they easily fall prey to things like anti-Dasam bani rhetoric. Because they never do nitnem anyway, it seems like a very small thing for them to delete those banis from the Sikh panth.

fordcapri, would you like to take the effort to make a title a little more descriptive than "re:" ?

When I started hearing about Sarna in the news a few years back, I thought he might be panthic because of: -being against Badal -offering to pay Vienna defense expenses -other panthic stances from time to time Yet he also comes out with stuff like the above: -praising Lala Jagat Narain -keeping a pro-missionary, anti-Dasmesh bani Tarsem Singh as head of parchar -pro-Ragi Darshan Singh, causing unnecessary rife within panth -the "wedding" sometime back when a "man" took hold the "palla" of his wife. the whole purpose was to ridicule the maryada of anand karaj

God grants key to Dasam Duar to Satguru The reason that no one other than Satguru can open the Dasam Duar is that the one whose house it is (God's house) has locked it up and given the key to the Guru (i.e., Guru Nanak Ji): ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਗ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਤਿਨਿ ਦੀਆ ਤਾਲਾ ਕੁੰਜੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਉਪਾਈ ॥ And the one whose home it is, has locked it up, and given the key to the Guru. ਅਨਿਕ ਉਪਾਵ ਕਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥੩॥ You may make all sorts of efforts, but it cannot be obtained, without the Sanctuary of the True Guru. ||3|| The Dasam Duar is not some ordinary door that you can burgle your way into. You can't use a lockpick to gain access. You can go to Ashutosh, Radha Swami guru in Beas, Namdhari guru, Brahmdev, Asa Ram, Parmanand, to tiraths and mats and monasteries, whoever and whatever, but you will NOT be able to get into the Dasam Duar. That's the assertion of Gurbani. Gurmantar-less are accursed Only by receiving the Gurmantar from Guru Granth Sahib via Panj Piare and by reciting this mantra can one attain the object of human life. Those without this mantra are called accursed in Gurbani. ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੀਣਸ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੰਤ ਜਨਮ ਭ੍ਰਸਟਣਹ ॥ That mortal who lacks the Guru's Mantra - cursed and contaminated is his life. ਕੂਕਰਹ ਸੂਕਰਹ ਗਰਧਭਹ ਕਾਕਹ ਸਰਪਨਹ ਤੁਲਿ ਖਲਹ ॥੩੩॥ That blockhead is just a dog, a pig, a jackass, a crow, a snake. ||33|| p1355 Ashutosh and his kindred are basically just jackals, no matter how many rich chelas they may happen to have. http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=204&L=18 Note: there are 9 physical gates to the body that visible: 2 ears, 2 eyes, mouth, 2 nostrils, waste outlets. The tenth is the Dasam Duar, which, when opened, grants access to Darshan (vision) of God.

You don't HAVE to do anything. But some Singhs do. The idea is the same as when you're doing bani when preparing langar or parshad. The effect of bani on the water. Don't get caught up in special rules for banis outside Nitnem. Yes, those are to be done in a specific order, and all 5. For others, just do as much as you can, when you can.

Wake up, anybody on this board who was gullible and believed the "arguments" being presented against Guru Dasmesh's bani. It was all just a trick to separate you from Amrit Sanchar, Rehit, Khalsa Panth. Snap out of it!

Brothers, please let's not get into the Rag Mala issue per se. Just keep the thread about kam1825's book.

babbar, why don't you share some of your experiences with bhayas and Hindus which led you to the conclusions you've come to?

Don't get mad, get even. Learn Gurbani and GurHistory. Be able to calmly make your arugments with many points per arguments. Let the other fellow get flustered and mad that he can't answer your arguments. That's the best revenge.

Very inspiring speech. Fight the inner demons and the outer demons, not each other. Who is Kamaljit Singh Shaheedsar, by the way?

What happened to my post? Anyway: I think the missionaries need to get their stories straight. Two days ago we were being told that it was the missionaries who spearheaded the whole Ludhiana protest, and the Sant Samaj were merely interlopers. Now the Ragi is saying that everybody in the protest was an RSS agent! I think he has truly slipped into senility as the jamdoots come closer.

New Delhi, 8 Dec. (by Jagtar Singh) Former chief volunteer at the Akal Takhat, Prof. Darshan Singh Khalsa, in a special chat with the Spokesman, said what a two-faced case of one thing in your mind, and something else on your face. At one time, in Basakhi 1978, permission had been given to the doctrine-destroying Narakdharis to drink the Khalsa's blood by holding a celebration in the center of Sikhi, Amritsar, on the birthday of the Khalsa. He said that today, again, the government has repeated the history of that time. Charlatans and anti-social mendicants like Ashutosh have been given the right to make social character killing centers in the land of Punjab and challenge the honour of Sikhi for many years where he keeps hundreds of misled young girls. He said that this was found out some years ago when one Bibi Surjit Kaur came crying to me in the matter of her lost amritdhari daughter Prabhjot Kaur and told me how her young daughter was misled by being given drugged parshad. She changed her name from Prabhjot Kaur to Naveen Bharti and turned away from us and is living with Ashutosh. That pained mother, crying, put a letter from her misled daughter in front of me, reading which my hair stood up. Prof. Darshan Singh Khalsa said that that girl wrote to her parents that 300 girls like me are living here. Their parents don't bother them so much as they do. I'm a major now, I want live like I desire, stop following me. One mother was telling me the tale of being a beggar from the Akal Takhat to the President, and becoming hopeless. Prof. Darshan Singh said the Singhs who had created history by releasing other people's daughters from the hands of tyrants and sent them to their homes, how can the honourable Sikh nation tolerate that today somebody dishonour their daughters. He said 3-4 years ago Joginder Singh Vedanti had held a meeting in Amritsar due to pressure from folks like us, and I was invited too. In the meeting, I had brought the entire case, that this bad situation be stopped, but on each panthic matter, the policy of biding time by making committees was adopted. If it had been stopped then, we wouldn't have to bear such unbearable tragedies as today's. But the black politics of the time do not take pity of the Sikh form or doctrine. They have done deals on everything with the RSS, and according to that deal Ashutosh was given permission to do a smagam in the center of Punjab and to please the RSS, a bowl of the Sikhs' blood was presented. Prof. Darshan Singh said, "Recognise one more conspiracy, of cleaning mud with mud: One one hand the anti-Guru Guru-usurper Ashutosh Sadh was given permission for a samagam, and on the other hand, puppets of political power and anti-Guru Guru-usurpers of the Sadhus' gang was made to stand up to stop it so that in the battle whether one or the other would glisten, it would be one to destroy the Sikh doctrines. It is a two-faced move from which the Panth has to beware and has to face this terror."

Yes, it's true S Bhindrawale and many of the SInghs used to help many ordinary Punjabis who happened to be born in Hindu families. At the same time, there are some hard-core haters out there too. Just keep both things in mind, and we'll be OK.

Yes, you should. Respecting your parents is a big deal in Sikhi. So is forgiveness. If your uncle hasn't repeated his wrongdoings in 15 years, it's wrong to hold it against him. You don't have to give a reply to every single thing that people say. But you can definitely argue things with your friends of your own age.

I think we'd be well served first of all by not calling each other agents and traitors, LOL. The example of Pakistan is a good example that we need to be careful of. There's the landlock issue (no sea access). Besides export and import problems, communications and Internet access become difficult too. Then the issue of natural resources (oil, iron, coal, water). Then the issue of Hazur/Patna Sahib. On the other hand, you have the example of Dubai, a country which has taken charge of its future and has been prospering. It has a majority population of outsiders, but it controls their political participation. It also has a moderately strict version of Islam, with leeway for non-Muslims. The model of Europe is also one to consider. There are many countries that couldn't survive on their own, but they act as a unit. You can go from one European country to another with just a passport and open borders. Many people want the same model for Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Burma, Bangladesh, etc.

Agree. We're in a peculiar situation since anybody can come in our (Sikhs') meetings. As the Sant ji mentioned, the planning meeting was held in a gurdwara. We can't go into their meetings that they do behind closed doors.

LOL, both sides of an issue, when you can't present anymore arguments, just call the other an agent. Anyway, folks, how about cutting out the portions of the quotes and just leaving the part that you're responding to so the post doesn't become 10 screens long.

It's hard to make blanket statements. There are Hindus who are hard-core haters. They are ones that Kabir Ji speaks of when he says that those who worship stones will drown in the kala pani (the deep black waters of hell). Then there are those that, for whatever reason, can't make the leap as Mehtab Singh, Bhagat Puran SIngh, and others made in this lifetime. They don't worship stones, and they prefer to read Gurbani. There are also those that don't really get into politics or religion. We don't need to alienate the latter 2 groups without reason.

OK, that's more reasonable.

In regard to 1978, the killing was done by the Nirankaris. Badal could claim innocence. In 2009, the killing was done by the police under the command of Badal. He is responsible.

Panj Granthi is the name of a kind of gutka or pothi. It contains selections from Gurbani. It often contains (other than nitnem banis): Sukhmani Sidh Gost Bavan Akhri Dakhni Oangkar Asa di war

Very good point. All the nindaks of S. Dhadrianwale have egg on their faces since the events of the past few days in Ludhiana. S. Dhadrianwale was inches from being shot; the bullet hit his driver's arm, instead, who had lurched forward. I don't know of a single ਭੜੂਆ (man who sings while women dance) who was present at the Sikh protest, how about you das_nimana or yoda?

Thanks for whoever did this great seva. I hope no one will mind if I would ask for the next step: Could some multimedia wizard break up the files according to banis? Like, instead of page 11-64, have "Jaap Sahib", "Bachittar Natak", "Akal Ustat", etc. Normally, when you put some MP3s on your media player, you want to listen to specific banis, not to specific page numbers, and then start and stop in the middle of a bani.

Please note: Not sure about anyone else, but Sant Baba Ranjit Singh Ji Dhadrianwale have been visiting since Saturday, and Singh's from their Jatha have been sent in turns every two hours to see the injured victims. Please do not spread any false propaganda without backing. This missionary-type false propaganda is not needed during these times. Dhaas also urges you to refer to certain Mahanpurakhs with a little more respect for the obvious reasons. Please give some documentary proof.We dont believe in hearsay . The inverted commas show the respect for Sant Samaaj "mahaapurakhs" but with some reservations. The funny thing is, das_nimana, how could you possibly state with certainty that no mahapurkh had visited a single hospital? It's easy to prove a positive, but very hard to prove a negative. What sort of proof do you require other that their own testimony? You don't think that the Indian media are going to be camping out in the hospitals with the Sikh injured, do you? Why do you think S. Dhadrianwale wouldn't go to the hospital? I believe he would have gone no matter which Singhs were injured, but the fact is, half the Singhs at the protest were from his jatha. So, why wouldn't he go? Granted, police had all sorts of blocks preventing movement, but he still managed to reach them. Oh, by the way, when Nirvair S Khalsa posts some documentation, will you apologise for making false accusations?

Agreed. S. Bhindrawale did not get sucked into debates on meat, Ragmala, etc. during the morchas because it would have been a distraction at the time. Read the book. Argue at a later time.