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Ok ... sorry about the rambale a great article i found btw is http://www.neverforget84.com/history/post-independence-broken-promises-and-discrimination So how about the treatment of our sikhs who fight for the causes/ justice ... the question you should ask them is how are we NOT discriminated ... are we given the freedom to rule without interference from centre gov are we given the justice we deserve .. How have they treated us since 1947 .. Gandhi said No Constitution would be acceptable to the Congress which did not satisfy the sikhs." (Collected works of M K Gandhi Vol.58. p. 192)... we have never signed the consititution ... it dosnt even recognise us as sikhs ...is this freedom are you satisfied ... is this not discrimination Neru said ..."The brave Sikhs of Panjab are entitled to special consideration. I see nothing wrong in an area and a set up in the North wherein the Sikhs can also experience the glow of freedom. (Jawaharlal Nehru, Congress meeting: Calcutta - July,1944)... are we free in the 1980's how many hindus were lifted and put in prision how many girls were raped in front of their fatehrs how many hindus have been mass murdered how many hinduparents crry at niht not knowing the wereabout of their child... punjab's bhakra dam produces enough electricity to power punjab 3 times over and if it broke punjab would be under 3 foot of water ... however this electric iis first sent to delhi and the we get the remains ... we recieve no benifits for this other states that do the same are compensated why not punjab? Punjab - meaning the land of the rivers .. i ask you how many rivers does punjab hold now .. 2 which are nearly dry ... our water is being diverted we have lost the purity and fertileness of the land due to the politic imposed on the state.. Farming the centre still controls the costs and value of crops why we produce more crop than any other state but some of our farmers just break even ... we could sell crops across the border where the purchase price is much higher .. this is so our state dosnt grow too fast .. keep the money out ... yes we are rich but that is the build up of third/ 2nd generation hard work the 4th generation (youth never had to work)... bringing me on to education education .. what lessons are taught in schools read them next time your there depending on district you get distortions in our history .. banda singh bahadur was hindu for example.... little kids are told to chant waheguru waheguru then ram ram then allah akbur .. they get nothing but when the chant the name of jesus they get sweets which are proped up in a net... (same tactics are used by hindu shev shena groups). religion ... do we have the freedom to preach? we are apposed and centre funded organisations such the sucha suda and nirnkari, rss and shiv sena groups pop day by day .. why do we not recieve the same funding .. why do those who hhave claims of rape and murder get z security where as sikhs that have done nothing like Bhai Pal singh (france) be arrested and be stripped of all identity ?.. we are sikhs and when the british ruled they introduced the sikh marraige act but as soon as they leave it is demolished and we are only married n the eyes of the court if married under the hindu marraige act we are SIKHS we ask for answers for those who have been mistreated and we get locked up ... we do a peacefull rally and our turban is knocked off .. dicrimination i ask you or basic human rights ... If politians really cared would they not bring up the issue of the sikh turban with governments such as france? Kirpan issue with France/Italy etc they dont care they wish to oppress Our Artifacts .. gurbani/history which were taken in Operation Blue star we would like it back ... gov policy distort history ... who controls punjab ... badal ? no who is his puppet master ? Advani goes to the same temple which he says was good to attack and this is seen asgood free undiscrimnative politcs? where is all the gold money and maya that was left a guru ram das ji charn why was it looted in by the gov ... which other religion have you seen the world we live in today that has attacked its own people whould the Conservative gov ever ever dare to go into Havlock road gurdwara with automatic wepons shoes on tie up sikhs shoot them with their own hands tied behind their backs with their own turbans? no then how can the 'largest democracy' which india calls justify its operations ? If the politians such as sajan kumar jagdsh tytler amietha bachan are innocent and the cases filed aagianst them are false and im lying then go look at the faces of those women who are sitting in hostels those women who wer raped and those who lost their husbands/ sons fathers and look into their eyes and if you dont see what im saying then ill admit i lie... as sant ji says if a sikh hijacks a plane to highlight the discrimnation of sikhs he is a terriost but if you hiijack a plane for indria ghandi then you get political seats... is this not discrimination is this fair why the double standards look into how many people are on death row .. majoity are sikhs? do we honestly commit the most serious crimes.... we Out of 2125 Indians killed in the atrocities by the British, 1550 (73%) were Sikhs. Out of 2646 Indians deported for life to the Andaman Islands (where the British exiled political and hardened criminals) 2147 (80%) were Sikhs. Out of 127 Indians sent to the gallows, 92 (80%) were Sikhs. At Jalliawalla Bagh out of the 1302 men, women and children slaughtered, 799 (61%) were Sikhs. In the Indian Liberation Army, out of the 20,000 ranks and officers, 12,000 (60%) were Sikhs. Out of 121 persons executed during the freedom struggle, 73 (60%) were Sikhs. but still we dont have freedom we are treated as 2nd class citizens. Look into the discrimnation of Shaheed Subegh Singh Ji .. here is a general that saved Punjab from attack of Pakistan .. Organised and won the campaign in Bangladesh and then was passed over for promotion was discriinated and targeted for not following top politians curropt orders and then put on trumped up charges which are still the norm for simlar people who hold high positions today Crime.. one rule for them one for us seems like we need to have a mass witness before a hindu is convicted where as hindus just needto point Media.. portrail in the media? well you know as well what stories do you read? Punjab must be holding the reserve for IDX as every other story is the Largest hord of rdsx found .. bloody hell get a new title.. you ca print diffrent lettering it dont cost any different tight asses ... Media is heavily sensored you try and put something thats against the politians .. how far could you get .. (Khalra comes to mind) Wow after how many years did we get Punjabi to become the mother tounge in Punjab? Still today whenpeople are asked they are pressured into saying Hindi .. they still want to change it back Policie s such as the amount of land a sikh can own are still about in india? why are we not free. Punjbs higways how can a state which has so much be in some much debt creative accounting by any chance? we are over 4 % of the worlds population we have schools and universities across the world but the land in which our fore fathers called home has been split and partitioned our rivers have been divided and our language is opprosed or religious teachings are squashed and changed. in 1947 Panjab was divided and the Sikhs suffered great loss. Sikh shrines such as Nankana Sahib, Panja Sahib and many more along with the capital city of Lahore was given to Pakistan, over 70% of the most fertile land owned by sikhs was taken by Pakistan since we have lost more we have been divided in Upper pardesh haryana Summary Farmers in Panjab paid higher prices for their agriculture inputs, but were offered lower prices for their produce in comparison with neighbouring states. The Central Government assumed sole control over prices and farmers were not allowed to cross state boundaries to get higher prices for their labours in the next state. Electricity generated by the Hydroelectric Dam Bhakra on the Panjab borders was more costly and provided in smaller amounts in Panjab than in it’s neighbouring states. 75% of the water available to Panjab was being diverted to other states. 70% of the revenue raised by Panjabis, for development of Panjab was sent to other states. The Central Government investment in Panjab was less than 1%, the lowest amongst all the states, however Panjab was the most highly taxed. Restrictions on the recruitment and promotion of Sikhs in the armed forces were applied. This was a grave insult as Sikhs being 2% of India’s population counted for the majority of sacrifices in the freedom struggle against the British. For a great artical go to http://www.neverforget84.com/history/post-independence-broken-promises-and-discrimination Finally Immortal words In Germany they first came for the Communists; I did not speak because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the Jews; I did not speak because I was not a Jew. Then they came to fetch the workers, members of trade unions; I was not a trade unionist. Afterward, they came for the Catholics; I did not say anything because I was a Protestant. Eventually they came for me, and there was no one left to speak." By Pastor Martin Niemoller A Protestant Minister Imprisoned during Germany's Third Reich bhul chuk maf

Not Going to justify anything but can i please point ou the pictures dont actually show they are supporting badal with the advani senireo anyway we actually dont know whats going on unless someones spoken with baba ji then please refrain from slandering them... i was also disapointed when i first saw this but the fact remains the pictures dont prove anything ... what i will say is this ... some one like Sant Hari Singh Randewahe wale who has done much more the kuam than i ever could will have there reasons ... also there have been reports that pictures of sants such as Taksal Jathedar Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma have been used without prior consent to confuse the sikhs .. what im saying is please speak to the direct if you have any questions Bhul Chuk Maf

WJKK WJKF Seems like the treads going off track.. to me you have the belief or you do not. My stance is simple ... Dasam Bani is Gurbani it should be respected as such ... Sants and Mahpursh walk this earth, some are deep in meditation and some are more in the open to briing others into sikhi ... A few mahapursh whos jevani Mr AmritSingh0 i would suggest you read are SANT BABA ISHER SINGH JI, SANT BABA ATTAR SINGH JI, SANT BABA WARYAM SINGH JI, BABA TAKHUR SINGH JI , SANT BABA KARTAR SINGH JI, SANT BABA JARNAL SINGH JI KHALSA, all of whom are puran bharmgayani. But if you like i can teach mathematics 1+1 =2 so know am i your prof? no why no i call myself a Prof what do you mean calling myself a prof dosnt make me one .... what has your Sarbjit Singh Dhunda actually studied at what university when did he graduate? Dharsan's Ragi School of SIKHISM. You can follow who you like but please dont use people who make up they are something but are really something else. Kala Afgani LOL ... Simply put believe me dont believe me up to you ... you and you alone will answer the Dharm Raja ... Just out of curiosity whats your stance on the panj banian as you dont believe that the Dasam Bani is gurbani do you believe there is only two nitnem path? (is this to save time ) Or do you believe we have 5 banian ... anyways Bhul chuk maff Waheguru Guru sikhi jivan bakshah karan WJKK WJKF

Sorry On A completly different note i have been to the Gurdwara a few times and have noticed the Degh de seva is done in middle of the doors (parshad is given in front of Marahaj Ji) However this causes many problems as those entering are obstructed those getting Parshad are putting their back to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I have spoken about this beadbi to the granti but it dosnt seem as anything has been done .. im not sure who the comitee members are as im an out sider also its a shame to see such a big langar hall with the sangat wearing shoes etc .. but hey one step at a time... great seva going oon inthe background the few times i've bee but not muuch seva going on in the hall itself other than the serving because its too dificult to get through with all the chairs. any ways sorry for posting in the wrong place and hijacking another thread but i thought as some of the people commenting in this thread could also highlight this issue.... WJKK WJKF Bhul Chuk maff

@ S1ngh Wicked point and love th quote ..ma plagerise some time ... ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਪਾਠ ਤੇ ਅਰਥ ਸਮਝਣੇ ਤਾਂ ਦਰਕਿਨਾਰ, ਬੁਜ਼ਦਿਲ ਆਦਮੀ ਇਸ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸੁਣ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦਾ. ਇਹ ਕਾਇਰਾਂ ਦਾ' ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ. ਇਸ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੇ ਇਕ ਇਕ ਅੰਗ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਹਾਥੀਆਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਚਿੰਗਾਰਾਂ, ਕਿਰਪਾਨਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਟੁਣਕਾਰਾਂ, ਤੇ ਘੋੜਿਆਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਰਕਾਬਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਅਵਾਜ਼ਾਂ ਸੁਣਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ।" ਸੰਤ ਜਰਨੈਲ ਸਿੰਘ ਭਿੰਡਰਾਂਵਾਲੇ

Sikh Soldier... sums it better than i ever could. I was once in the presence of a Gur Sikh who used to be with Sant Ji (they are well known and widley respected, but as they told us not tell people what they said dont want to mention their name... BTW the reason they said this was that they didnt want people going out and saying so and so said this was that people dont believe such things are possible). Any way they mentioned that true gursikhs .. BharmGayanis can go to suchkhand and comeback ... Bharm Gayanis such as Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khasla Bhindranwale. I was once told that Sant ji while asleep would go to sach kahnd and when it was time to get up they would still be there as they didnt have realisation of time back here they would be busy in seva and giyan of Great Sikhs such as Baba Deep Singh Ji and Bhai Mani Singh Ji any way some singhs started saying look at him he dont even get up to do his nit nhem any way they asked this singh to touch their toe when it was time for them to come back ... any way this is all matter of belief... you ca believe the world is flat and be adimant that all those who say the world is round is mad... any way Bhul Chuk Maf WJKK WJKF

Seems like the all powerful badal has been shown his power.. its a shame the truth coming out in small slips.... shame When he became pm i was a bit proud .... but today even he has one of the great economic minds i dont rate him one bit ....

Thanks Guys ... Shame it didnt happen this yr with all the negitivity happening to cloud our thoughts ... ie nidder etc. May Guru Ji Bless us with Gursikhi Jeevan and remind us of those who have sacrificed everything for the cause.... Our Nation will be strong our foundations are built on the shoulders of those who are immortal our cement is mixed with the blood split for justice ...waheguru bless us all Bhul Chuk maf BSINGH

just wanted to know if the vigil in bham is happening this yr have seen no posters/details of anything ... shame

WJKK WJKF A reminder pep's Singh Sahib have issued warning to those who display stickers of 'Ik Oankar' to their vehicles, and told them to remove such stickers immediately as they cause beadbi of Gurbani. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF Disapointed to only find two articles on the matter http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/aissf-demands-punjab-cms-resignation-over-desecration-sikh-turban-punjab-police-mohali/29924 http://www.emgonline.co.uk/news.php?news=9621 im sure we a few people that are in the media that can help highlight this matter... what does the UK government want a petition in blood ... i'll gladly sign. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF things are getting a bit out of hand... Someone rang me to tell me about this and my immediate reaction was even if i was out numbered he would have got a salp back but om from the UK and its not as bad but still ... touch the pag and im coming after you (unleashing the lion as a few friends would say) i know in the end im going to take a beating as im out numbered but still in my heart hope i would have tried. INDIA gov dosnt allow full rights to sikhs .. yet it's PM is a SIKH wears a Pagg .. not heard any response from him ... BADAL ..... supposedly working for sikhs lets see One thing i mentioned to my friend was they eed to do somethin from there abut this what are we going to do? Send buses and Coaches t the MOhali cricket ground from here? We need to organise a mass protest .... UK... US..> CANada... Kenya... Punjab... Delhi ... France ... Germany.... Italy... Spain ... Ireland... we need to do a one time march to the Indian High comission on a set date and time .. this will get the best coverage... do it on a day when the Commision is open so people are aware .. we do the independance protest on the 15th August every year but the high commission is always closed. We as individuals are strong but as a collective nation we are unstoppable...............proved by history.........i dont think we have lost a battle unless we have been betrayed from the inside. Anyway this is wrong we need to highlight it accross the world so get out your mobiles get out your laptops and PC's send everyone this video .. highlight that even in this day and age when we all say 26 yrs on from the 84 Massacares .. we are still not considered as citizens of INDIA ... it still dosn't recognise SIKHS as a seperate religion.... It still controls what we can and cannot do and we need to show them THAT WE WILL NOT STAND LIKE COWARDS AND TAK IT OUR FATHER IS GURU GOBIND SINGH JI .... WE HAVE BROTHERS THAT GAVE UP THEIR LIVES AND WERE BRICKED ALIVE ..... WE HAVE SISTERS THAT SUNG THE PRAISES OF WAHEGURU EVEN AFTER THEY HAD THEIR SONS CUT UP AND PUT AROUND THEIR NECKS AS GARLANDS... WE FOTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE MOTHERS AND WIVES THAT SEND THEIR SONS AND HUSBANDS TO DIE FOR A CAUSE .... OUR HISTORY IS COLOURFUL TO SAY THE LEAST ... FOUNDATIONS OF OUR HISTORY LIE ON THE HEADS AND SHOULDERS OF OUR SHAHEEDS .... WE WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS Bhul CHuk MAf WJKK WJKF

WJJK WJKF I do agree that we have become corrupt and that the Government has a certain level to play in the part. However we cannot over look the work which has been done since Sant Baba Takhar Singh Ji held together a religion after a massacare they did pachar through each individual pind in Punjab. This was the only way in which we could have survived they carmed a burning nation as they new the path, which to take. Any other path would have caused us greater pain . Sant ji held a religion after what most see as one of the darkest hours of OUR history. Many try and imitate Sant Gaini Jarnail Singh JI but they cannot the masses were behind them they spoke the truth and asked for justice, they spoke for the common man and they opposed this currpotion this gaddari that we have become acustom to. Now is the ime of KULJUG ... its time for us to do sangat and Path. We must become Sikhs - SAINTS and then Soldiers - Sant ji used t do so much path in one day that i couldnt do in a week. I someone was killed by a Group .. even thoughthey deserved it ....sant ji would go into a room and do path for them... But why are these people scared of us It surprising but Winston Churchill once said that 'to destroy a nation, one must distroy its history' and basically since 1947 we have been abused for a qualities we have ben taken for a ride by the British the Muslims and the Hindu Government, they have exploited our bravery and honoour they have exploted the fact that we will bleed to death for a freind and those in need. they have destroyed our temples disorted our history BUT we are still here and strong ... why because with gurus grace our religion lays on the heads and shoulders of Shaheeds ... Our mothers give birth to the bravest, they have dressed and sent their sons to their deaths. They have had their kids cut limb from limb and had garlands put around their necks and still sang the praises of waheguru. Our Sikh Generals lead such lives that people used to hush their children by whispering their name they were so pure that when one would question Sikhi they gladly reply.our Armys lead such lives taht they once attacked a enemy muslim camp which they thought held supplies, it turnt out that in fact it was a camp for the army women (ie wives of the general etc), Scared and frightened were the women they were sure they would be dishonered but no ....The sikhs appologised and left not one touched a single hair on anyone. Our Generals include Hari Singh Nalwa and General Subeg Singh This is why they are not only scared but terrified of us... they know what we are capeable of .... and to those that say that we dont have the numbers im no inculding those that have no sikhi ... and still i have to say two words SAVA LAKH Bhul chuk maff ... apppologies for the rambles WJKK WJKF

WJJK WJKF May guru ji bless the souls of the saheeds... Justice however a bit small and very late - 84 - 97 = 13 yrs on hes covicted then he appeals and it takes another 14 yrs to covict him... a life sentence already up ... 3 more to gho or did he run them consecativly... Any way remmebered a converstaion i had back at uni- Thers been no other religion that have given up so much for its beliefs.... one of main reasons why we cannot be defeated is that Sikhi is built upon the soulders of shaheeds .... Bhul chuk Maf WJJK WJKF

WJKK WJKF Waheguru ... i was think about this a few days ago... I asked this question once in india on my travels with family... a Wise man told me this answer .... Light is a devta .. so is fire and water and people worship them. Howwever when we light the deva it shows that even the devtee come and peicefully listen to the bani... they provide light, protection, and cleanse the area Bani is so pavitar that even Devtee listen and grasp at each sahbad.. its supreme. (BTW if i make no sense please ignore me, i know wha i want to say but very bad at explaining myself). Bhul Chuck Maf WJKK WJKF

WJJK WJKF I have read the posts for a while and not commented. I now post to propose a course of action: if SikhSangat need help with funds to fight any legal proceedings related to this matter i will be happy to help... How ever i don’t only say lets defend ourselves but lets get our own Justice ...i want to know how many people are ready for a battle in the courts .. with gurus and sangats blessing i propose we destroy them by their means by their weapons. If they can get Lawyers and Solicitors so can we just better .. we are not constrained by what is given by the sangat (its obvious they will not spend any of their money) and i will pay if no one else will. Please note this is MY OWN opinion and not that of SikhSangat. Thus if the committee member wants to discuss my views please PM me i would be happy to discuss. We live in Brittan ... which is a democratically run country.. we have freedom of speech... however we place people in positions for our benifit but these agents the stab us in the back and play into the hands of our oppressors ... lets band togeter bring the five fingers to getther and smash our way through ... destroy this corruption May guru ji and the snagat forgive my short coming and mistakes. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF maybe research into the jevans of Sant Baba Hari Singh Ji Randhawe Wale, they have great kamiye also Sant Baba Lakbir Singh Ji - Balongi wale (Ratwara Sahib)..... if you can read into the jevan of Sachkand wasi Sant Bab Waryam Singh Ji Ratwara Sahib wale that would be good. In addition Sant Baba Isher singh Ji Rara Sahib Wale.... Jevani is great aswell hope this helped WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF West london Singh - guess what area your from You issued a challange i have 5 singhs ready ... if you want we'll go to any gurdwara you want but you have to stand at the front with us... if your ready drop me a PM. so many people s saying this and that but if everyone got up and went to a gurdwara where beadbi was happening then i know that 4 others would meet you there... if they dont ask for saheedi pera and ask Guru ji to give you the strength to take them to safe place Your house can be a gurdwara .. all it realy is is a building the outer shell, ie your body/ the paper on which the bani is written . any way why bring in caste .. the guru freed everyone of caste its a GURU HOUSE where did the caste come in can you not go in and do matha? Bhul chuk maff Sad Sangat nu Guru ki Fateh Saheeda nu purnam WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF Guys I'm trying to get hold of a Massive picture of Bharmgani Sant Jarnal Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale... with the sevadar around him walking .. ie like the one below http://www.bhindranwale.net/sikhimages/bhindranwale-photos13.html if any one tell me where i can get one .. i would appriceate it... its for the community not me so the bigger the better .. plus if any one knows of a good artist let me know please thanks WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF LOL .. once they come around my nans.... shes punjabi through and through ... (understands a little english but thats it) there these 3 guys there preaching to my nan.... she stands the patently listening (not understanding) and then after about 30 mins their just about to leave and my nan goes one minute ... she goes gets the gutka and starts doing path .. their faces ... so so funny and they sat there listening its so funny - one got up and my nan gave him the look and so he promtley sat down... im still laughing thinking about it WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF Rang the number .... spoke english to get to someone as they have this old uncle who kept picking up the phone and saying no one was there... In summary the guy said nothing wrong had happened and nothing wrong took place they said that the stories about the singhs getting beaten up were false and kept saying there was nothing wrong,.... he kep asking for my name so i gave it ...he then started saying that this had nothing to do with any body but those from the grays community... he kept asking who i was and why i wanted to know what it had got to do with me .... i told him straight i was guru ka sikh the nation is my community and thus i should be aware what was happening in the presence of my guru, at his house. He did get emotional a few times saying that he was there when they brought the gurdwara premisis etc etc.... i told him look im noit here to judge i just want to know the truth ... i said that if the gurdwara needs mony we'll get it, if they need help we'll give it. i once rememmber a sant saying in a sangat (they were in charge of the langar at amassive proogram at fatehgar sahib) that if all of you didnt turn up tommorrow (to the seva dars) still the GURU ka Langar would be made and ready for distribution he said that it is the GURU's and he makes oit not us we are just the bodys that preform his will. This way the GURU WARA (The house of the Guru) will provide for himself. the interest at my local guru kar is really high (10K+) but i never see any one there in the week however i never seen or heard them not able to pay.... there were many contradictions in what he said .... 1. nothing wrong .... then he stated that they had kicked a few people out for...... wait for it...... taking pictures of women- which he then changed to pictures of women and men. 2. mentioned that the hall is seperated from the gurudwara and is a community hall ..... but did not confirm that it was not part of the gurdwara complex 3. said when i asked if the community hall was being run by the gurdwara commitee .... he said no 4. asked him if they run the community centre under the same charity number and he said no 5. asked my name and address when i started giving it he wasnt interseted ....GUYS DONT BE AFRAID 6. said that who ever was highlightiing this story in media and community was dis honest- i told them not to worry they will do pesh in ffront of maharaj and we will know who is in the wrong also told him the dharm raja knows and wont be listening topeoples excuses 7. oh and he said if i was from the sikh community why dont i speak with someone about the matter to which i said the Akal Tahkat had issued a hukam namma condeming and phobiting meat and alchol within the gurdwara. feel they are looking to say that its not the gurdwara but thee community hall.... which is run by a seperate committee. guys we should be prepared... does anyone know of a lawyer that could help... i'll pay Think there will be a new meeting very soon .... could someone from the sangat please inform everyone of the times........ what ever the sangat decides im with them .. if you need singhs or singnia pm me if you need panj payare PM me .... only problem is i work on the weekend and fri which i cant get out of so wont be of much help on these days.... but guru kirpa any of the others GUY PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU SPEAK WITH RESPECT IF YOU SPEAK TO THEM... they maybe wrong but shouting at each other will solve nothing .... bhul chuk maff WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF SIngh As bhai shaib said : Brhamgyani ki Gat Brahmgyani Jaane but try seeing Sant Baba Lakbir Singh Ji - Bolongi wale (From the line of Sachkhand wasi Sant Baba Waryam Singh Ratwara Sahib) also Sant Hari Singh Randawa WJKK WJKF

wjkk wjkf depends dont think in a gurdwara ... but may be in a all sikh musem ... wouldnt that be great one like that place in punjab

Guys have just come across this which has annoyed me. Does anyone know how we can contact google/AFP to make sure theey get their facts straight .... HE IS NOT A SIKH GURU WE HAVE ONE GURU AND THATS GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ ...sorry for the caps ... your help is appricated thanks

WJKK WJKF There are many things that should be included but what section of 1984 do you want to capture as the story goes back many years before 84 ... the story also spans many yrs after the 84 riots. Perosnally think its a great idea to make a documentary on 84 but do you think taking a snapshot in time tells everyone the true story also who is your target audience. If you are serious im sure i can put you in touch with those effected by the events of 84... Prior also those who joined the struggle and the effects of 84 and the KPS Gill period By the way these are the people i would interview Sikhs who were around during 84 ie those that witnessed June - Operation Blue star AND the widley forgotten Operation Woodrose - which is hardly documented anywhere .... shows that this was well organised attack on the sikhs ... not sure if you heard the story of the villagers marching towards Harmandir Sahib but they were told to turn back or face the bullets ... they marched on but a helicopter forced them back orthey became saheed... cant remember the village Also i would interview the polititians of that era.... they will be biased but a good reporter will make them sweat.... people like Captin, badal will be unwilling but Mann, Bittu etc will be forward coming I would also interview non sikhs of 84 toi get a feeling of what the neigbours thought ... try and make a unbiased account .... Majority of hindus who were neighbours know the truth and know that the indian gov didnt tell the truth It need s to mention the rebuilding of the Akal Takaht also mention all the gold etc that was looted all the historical facts that were taken etc.... the youth only know about the immediate ... that the indian army attacked the golden temple. It should put across the view points that what if the italian gov attacked the vatican or if the army in the uk attacked the church of england ... as thats what basically happened... could people justify it ask random people on the streets on their opinions tell them what happened ask them what they would have done.... and pls dont go around asking chavs.... ask educated people. tell the story from the eyes of the people.... mention the bravery of the singhs who fought they were unskill yet the gov need to call in reinforcements they had ordinbary guns yet the gov had to call in tanks and helicopters Also mention the latest info coming from the net ... more info is coming out daily ... have you watched that video where indra goes to make a speach to the army ??? its a must Also i would do a interview with KS Barar . Make sure i got his side (we dont want to be biased) a good interviewer will get him on the knees ... i would do it but the anger would be too much actually dont think i would get near him with my family ties ... the only problem would be getting him to do it!!!! in addition to that dog i would get people who led and who carried out the orders just to see if they got any opinions .. must be honest have never seen anything from anyone but top brass. talk to doctors and medics who delt with the injured .... look into the work of Sardar Khalra ... he found out alot .... he mentions so much which needs to be brought to the attention of the world... talk to those effected by the 84 riots ... hindus sikhs and those accused .. ask them to if they are innocent then they have no problem speak to the women men and families effected.... find out from politians why it took so long for army deployment not sure now but up til 97 for sure Punjab was still under army rule(army could come and lock down at any time) investigate the hyprocracy by the gov in cases .. there was that case when the singh was not given the ability to give his statement and he said they wount let me until im dead show the double sided angles so the things that dont match up.... there are things that Brar and KP Gill have said that contradict talk to the freedom fighters those that fight with the pen / politics etc explain and explore the time from 84 till date ... talk to those who left their mother land because of fear... talk to those that caused the fear ... talk to those who fought back notion that sikhs gave 80% of the 100% for freedom but SIKHISM is not recognised by ARTICLE 25 of the indian consitution .... which inaddittion has NEVER been signed by any sikh highlight and talk about important times such as the sarbat khalsa of 86 ... the facts that sikh history is being desorintated ... talk about fake babe and gov support for them highlight the z security for these men talk about anandpur sahib resolution .... mention what sikhs are fighting for respect equality or khalistain ask questions to officals and human rights orgs .... did you know that india still dont allow human rights orgs into punjab mention that we are sikhs we are strong like iron we may scrath we may with force bend but bracking us is impossible we are an element ... long live Khalsa Talk about good things ie who sant ji were .. where they come from . the people they stood with and what they fought for talk about those the effected by them .. gain info from those that met them .. can put you intouch if need be a great source would be Gani Thakur Singh Ji - patalia wale ... they do great katha aswell as know first hand of them ... but saying that alot of the time when they say something they do mention not to tell anyone else so make sure you ask permission. talk about the singhs that were with sant ji ... those that helped the hindus and looked after their daughters like sisters. Talk about bhai shodi singh ji and the betrayal .... most peole dont know the storys behind these great sikhs ABOVE ALL MENTION THAT AFTER ALL THIS WE SIKHS ARE STILL PROTECTING THEM WE STILL FIGHT FOR THEM AND WE STILL STAND FOR JUSTICE MENTION THA WE ARE SIKHS AND WE ARE BORN TO STAND OUT ... . FROMTHE BEGINNIG OUR HISTORY IS BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATIONS OF SHAHEEDI AND THAT OUR FOUNDATION IS NEARLY BUILT ALL WE HAVE TO DO NOW IS BUILD UP .... p.s talk about curruption drugs etc being pushed into punjab... Bhul chuk Maf not even the dust from your shoes ... and appologies for me rambling WJKK WJKF