sikhiseeker

Here here sister

WJKK WJKF As we all know governments and media will only report on what they wish to be reported. The events which will be recorded down, will be of their choice and from their angle. There will always be a distinction based on colour and the value of life, unfortunately it will always in majority be that a white life is more than a coloured life. History tells us this. Governments of countries have robbed and raped other countries to now call themselves "world powers". This threat affects us all on a day to day basis. It is different from the nazi regime, as this ideology is being passed on to the younger generations of the fanatics and the method off war is different, as they are told to have more children and populate Europe and have a majority vote. We will at one point be heavily outnumbered. Whether we live in a democratic society or not, we simply are not having children at the rate of Muslims all around the world. I think that's a point we kinda miss. I think it will reach a point where the worlds population will be a majority of Muslim born or Muslim converts and destruction will take place when they destroy one another. We as sikhs today cannot stop bickering with one another to make a stand, we are neither physically strong enough nor mentally. We must look within ourselves to see what we can do on an individual basis and then as one unit, the Khalsa panth!

WJKK WJKF veer ji, we all are very different and at different points of life and different stages of sikhi and understanding. But rather than condemn someone, it's better to try and samjhaa and find common ground, the common ground being our sikhi and our guru. In this time of need for us to unite we too quickly still scold and dismiss one another. We are all here to learn from one another, no one needs to hang their heads in shame as we are all sinners and all need the support of sangat.

WJKK WJKF yea that's true brother, but again it's in the choice of words which one could use. Also I think age plays apart in it too. I try and always remember that gurbani instructs us to keep our language sweet, as everyone is apart of our beloved. In the worst torture cases in our history, our shaheed, men and women have not been recorded as cursing or scolding someone with dirty language. From Shiri Guru Arjun dev ji maharaj, to Dhan Dhan Shaheed Baba Mani Singh ji to our mothers who had there children decapated and threaded on rope and draped on them like necklaces. If they kept the rehat in them cases, I'm sure we can too.

WJKK WJKF I train, both weight training and cardio. I also hunt and I do swear too. But I don't swear in front of my elders, or my sisters as I feel it's inappropriate. I also agree it's inappropriate for dirty language on a platform where we represent the gurus sangat and where other people can read and then derive an opinion based on what they read. There are many other words we can use, to express out feelings...most of us a bilingual too! Swear all you want in your personal space, but within sangat and public, keep it real and have mithi jabhan even if we disagree.

WJKK WJKF Haven't posted for a very long time, satrsriakal to all sangat ji. Very interesting topic, all have posted great points. I think naam and faith in akal purakh waheguru is the only protection in any case, it is the only support which is constantly there if one is Gurmukh. However, I don't like using the term "black magic" as it leaves a childish, silly outlook on the topic from the very beginning. I believe it's about tantra/mantra in its many forms all around this world and other worlds. Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji maharaj tells us about the 18 sidhia, I think one who possesses some or all of these abilities can then use them to their own or others success/failure based on their personal outlook on life. But great saints like Shan Shan baba Buddha sahib ji demonstrated that a Gurmukh can give support when need in the correct manner.

WJKK WJKF Veer Ji, thanks! Always wondered the answer, I will definately look into the history of these places.

WJKK WJKF Sorry Bhen ji, I was meant to write 68. Il try and sort out the typo.

WJKK WJKF Sangat ji, does anybody know where the 18 places of pilgrimage are as stated in gurbani?

WJKK WJKF There are many valid points of Beadbi being carried out by 3ho what many contributors have mentioned. Gurbani should not be used to simply get your freak on. However, when one who gets spiritually connected to naam in Kirtan, the aatma of that sikh or person can dance to the name of the true beloved. The body of such a person will start to physically move in a dance true the unstruct sound. This dance is a pure connection with Akal purakh, the very reason why Kirtan is so hard hitting to the sleeping soul.

WJKK WJKF Veer ji, I am of panjabi ethnicity, the majority of contributors to this topic are probably of panjabi ethnicity from western countries and yes, with brown skin. The majority of 3ho Sikhs being from America and having white skin. These are all physical differences however do not change the beadbi obviously. This is not an issue of race or ethnicity. However, we as panjabis, where sikhi was established have yet not understood sikhi as evident by the beadbi within panjab itself. Veer my point is, pyar and explanation is the only way forward. Nothing else. I am not a believer of creating factions. I am for one United Khalsa. But lead should come from the Akal Takhat who has the power. Its like for example, a crude one to which I apologise to anyone who might take offence. If the Vatican had strip clubs within Vatican City and then released a statement to the worlds Catholics stating that they should stay clear from sexual exploitation of the body and lust, it would be kinda contradictory. We all have shortfalls, we all are quick to judge. The topic itself is factioneed as these people have moved so far away from sikhi, they refer to themselves as 3ho Sikhs just like we have Jatt Sikhs and tharkhan Sikhs, all our fueding jathebandiya and so on..... Up until the Sri Akal Takhat puts straight all these underlining issues, can we then move forward. However if I was to meet one of these people, I would only talk through pyar and gurmat.

WJKK WJKFVeer JI, sorry I should elaborate, I mean by "us" being of panjabi ethnicity and the beadbi I listed were current ills what we do in our western countries and also in panjab. Sikhi has no colour, no geographical boundaries and no limit on universal truth. It is only us, the human which fails to understand its meaning, the flaw being the mann and not the Matt. Also veer Ji, I wish not to disguise any beadbi from any sikh of any ethnicity or country. However look at the state of panjab. Also, not all panjabi's are dumb, the smartest now sitting in prisons in panjab as they voiced the truth of injustice. Up until the puppeteers are gone with their puppets and our shere panjab are freed and gurmat is followed, we will then be able to deal with the issues in the worldwide panth. But it has to start from the top, Shri Akal takhat, as set by our guru sahib.

WJKK WJKF I was really chuffed when I realised that many white Americans embraced sikhi. However over the years, after learning the things they do has left a real bad and pittyful feeling as these people have largely become incorporated in a cult movement and not the nirmal panth of sikhi. In many ways, a reflection of what many panjabis do, kill their daughters, caste supremacy, alcohol, kesha di beadbi, pakandi sants to add but a few, all under the name of sikhi. The beadbi what goes on in our own mother land needs to be sorted out before we can ever point the finger and say "your wrong" as it becomes contradictory. If and when the shri Akal Takhat sorts out its front yard, only then can we move on to sort out the rest. In relation to this post, if 3ho do not wish to follow the rehat maryada set by the Akal Takhat, it has to result in excommunication. Up until then, we should approach the 3ho members with pyar and bring em back to sikhi. As great Sikhs like Bhai Jagtar Singh Ji has done here. The beadbi on our side is just the same, as beadbi is beadbi.

WJKK WJKF From reading all the posts on this topic, what is evident is the reason why as Sikhs and Sikh establishments we can't tackle many issues as Sikhs, like spiritual possession and homosexuality. From childish posts from contributors who have kids themselves, what would we do if someone approached the gurdwara and asked for help or advice on their child being homosexual? Burst out laughing? Tell them to get out the gurdwara? Then spread it to all the "desies" in the community. Fact is, in our gurdwara there is no such sewa done in most our gurdwareh, due to the attitudes reflected in the posts. There is no support for families within these taboo issues, resulting in people go further away from sikhi, due to so called Sikhs misusing the word.

WJKK WJKFVeer ji, I base my opinion of reincarnation from gurmat, if any "desi" wishes to have a conversation with me, I'm happy to elaborate on the soul and how it takes birth in both genders of creation. I know you personally won't because you usually go hush as your always on the verge of "winning an argument". It's sad that you have this opinion, that anyone to have a different opinion must be gay. It demonstrates how small a box you actually live in, claiming to be such a educated, knowledgable sikh, you understand very little, confusing many things into one, confused arrogant and ignorant opinion (mostly, not all the time) Also veer ji, how far within sikhi do you try and educate yourself? I personally disagree with Bhai Jagtar Singh ji's (basics of sikhi) opinion on homosexuality. However, would I then point my finger and suggest he is gay!?....nah I wouldn't but I guess you and many "desi'" would.

WJKK WJKF Bhen ji, sorry for such a late reply on this topic. It's good that you shine through sikhi, but with pyar I say to you bhen that it is not you who attracts people, it is the values you live by, sikhi. As we are all subject to the five vices and our own manmatt, it is only gurmatt which shines like a beacon. Everyday, we consume foods which a mass produced, like bread and veg. You can never say that through this mass chain you have not consumed food via a Muslim hand. To live by such a standard, one should adopt sarbloh bibek. As not many hands irregardless of religion are without taints of the five vices. The sikh who serves you a jalebi at vaisakhi nagar Kieran's could be as much a paapi as the musaalmaan making fresh jalebia on soho road in Birmingham. Indeed they both could be the perfect example of sant aswell lol.

WJKK WJKFVeer ji, no! Not all classical dance is done by women. Have you never seen the cosmic dance of shiva, done by men? Also, as you say regardless of culture, how do you think other cultures view traditional Bhangra lol? Extremely masculine? The young lad may indeed be doing a feminine dance, but who on here knows he is homosexual? In his past human life, he may have been a woman in which he has brought traits of femininity within this life, but do you or the other members here know him personally? Or just gossiping, I wonder what gurbani says about gossip and nindiyia? Also, I will not follow like a sheep when you state the universe will mock these two sikhs, unless they are being watched by fellows pansies. I stand firm in my sikhi dharma in which only a man and women can take union. However it is confusing how easily you can justify the portrayal of Jazzy B and Diljit Dosanj. When will you condemn their double standards of simply making money at the cost of the youth and sikhi? Soon enough, due to our westernisation, one or two generations down the line will be so removed from India/Punjab, it will result in viewing the Salwar Kameez or Suthan chagha as Ali baba type clothes! The mother tongue will be forgotten, classical, original Kirtan styles will be totally lost, we will be left with balle balle, shaava shaava, the only few words we will understand as Jazzy B will continue on...and on.......and on!

WJKK WJKF I don't see much wrong with the chubby guy with the parka dancing. The young dude with the pag is dancing to nagan and in a feminine way, but who said he is gay? Other thing is, they are both classical Indian dance styles...probably all the posters who have contributed to this topic including me are from western countries an we have been heavily westernised. However, this is Indian classical dancing, not hip hop or Bhangra? Another thing, why do films like Singh is King and jatt and juleitte get missed, as they do not portray Sikhs or the sikh dharma? Yea 2 dudes who are from INDIA, dancing CLASSICAL INDIAN becomes a disgrace lol? But give jazzy b and diljit dosanj the green light to do as they please right!

Lol, what shop was it stocked in?

WJKK WJKF Veer Ji, them freshies probably knew very well what halal was but just played the "act dumb" card. Out of interested was the meat marked halal? Also the chap with the restaurant probably would sell anything to make a quick buck and the people eating there would probably eat anything to satisfy their taste buds without thinking of the welfare of the animal. I think if a Khalsa sikh is to consume meat then it should be hunted or reared and jhatkaad by their own hand and shastar. Then all its carcass be used. As jhatka is much more than meat and the satisfaction of the taste buds. As it conditions the mind for warfare and the departure of the soul from the physical body.

WJKK WJKF Veer ji, it is never about being wrong or right, winning or losing an argument. It is simply a difference of opinion which as you rightly say is based on individual and personal circumstances. I always try and stop my Krodh when I hear about Islamic terrorism in the headlines by thinking about the life of our Mahraj, Shiri Guru Gobind Singh. After all what atrocities the Mughal rule and Aurangzeb did to him personally, Guru ji still never treated every Muslim with revenge or held them personally guilty for the martyrdom of many of the Khalsa panth. This is evident in The Zafarnama an his actions after it was written. This topic also reminds me of when shaheed Bhai Moti Ram Mehra gave shaheed Mata gujri ji and our mahaan shaheed sahibzade hot milk and water from the kitchens of the moguls. I'm sure that this would of been deemed halal, being from the kitchens of the mogul general. The main thing we Sikhs lack in this age, is forgetting we were once warriors who fought in hand to hand combat in battle. Yes, today's warfare has moved forward with automatic weaponry, however I feel we as Sikhs should still know how to defend ourselves, our families and anyone around us who suffers injustice. Our kirpana were given for a physical reason too. This is why it is important to be fit and learned in some form of realistic street fighting style if not shastar vidiya.

WJKK WJKF Bhen ji, I disagree with your post in the sense that IMO it's kinda like alil superstitious in a sense. Accepting food made or from the hand of a Muslims is not kurehat, it is simply a deed done living within akal purakh wahegurus world. To eat only from a gursikhs hand shows no equality. The langur concept demonstrates equality in food and people. Would you not eat food from a Hindu, Christian or a Jew too, Or just a Muslim? As all these religious ideologies are very different to our own?

WJKK WJKF Veer ji, I totally understand all the above points you have made however I don't think that me buying a loaf of kingsmill bread will contribute to terrorism. The halal sign on food items like vermicelli uncooked noodles probably serves the purpose in most cases, of notifying the Muslim that it is permissible within their maryada. I see nothing wrong with that. On meat it is a different issue, as my point is their is no halal sign even when it is halal and the consumer should know. Yes, there is a huge problem with Islamic ideology fueling terrorists once again like Aurangzeb, however this fight will take place inevitably in combat on the battlefield in all our countries. Terrorism will always be sponsored, the governments of the world only disclosing info on what they want you to know and nothing else hugely affects this debate on terrorism. However, I will treat people including Muslims as I would with anyone, on a individual level. If someone wishes to try and convert me, I will follow in the footsteps of my sikh brethren. If you were living in Delhi, would you boycott the halal sign there veer ji? Would you buy veg from a Muslim?

WJKK WJKF Their is no gain in boycotting the non meat halal market, however everyone should have the right to know what slaughter method was used when purchasing meat as a consumer. Many Sikhs would argue halal does not concern sikhi as "we should be vegetarian and not eat meat anyway". This is were it falls apart and their is no unified opinion. The boycott should simply be based on the consumer's rights on knowing if the meat is halal, as if it was based on anything else, it would just fall into the islamaphobic trend and be thrown out. By using business law, we may be able to get meat labeled so that the consumer can make the choice of buying halal meat.