jagjit_waheguru

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Pyare jio, Generally for most Amritdahrees, the kirpan is nothing that a ritualistic peice with little to no idea of how to use it. Let alone care for it, and have it every ready. Must of this comes from the pascifist sant-ism which is prominent nowadays. I once saw a documentary on US marines which showed how they are were made to sleep with their guns to get used to them, and are taught to make them part of their body. Similarly Guru ji 300 years gave us the kirpans. We have not learned the lessons of Delhi or 9/11. In fact we have not learned the lessons of Slough, Bradford, etc. Where muslims went Gutta bashing, and Sikh boys are humiliated by muslims boys to impress sikh girls. Too may Amritdharees enjoy living in their own worlds and ignore this, when they are the ones who should be doing something about it. I remember uni youth leaders calling me a trouble maker when I mentioned it. The reality was that it was them who were embarassed by their own inaction, and just what to cover their backs. Sikhs as a society should never need to rely on anybody apart from Guru ji. They should be organised and every ready in every situation. Poltically, educationally, humanitarian, and martially. Recently a Delhi singh stayed at my house, who was here as a kirtanee for the jatha smagam. He told me after 1978, in delhi, the jatha singhs all started learning gatka, and buying kirpans. He said they went on many protests against Nirankaris. He said it was that training, that in the roits in 1984, when the mob attacked his house, that saved him and his family. He said he struck the first person who attacked his house, cutting him, from his side to his back. The rest of mob saw this, picked him up and fled. He said all night Singhs protrolled their neighboorhood, and had skirmishes. All he knows is the next day in the paper, in the lists of dead, in his area, there was just the name of one Hindu person. If only every Gursikh knew how to defend themselves, delhi would never had happened. Read our history, never will you hear of Singhs going to rescue a Sikhi bibi. Only rescueing hindu bibis. That was because very Singhni knew how to defend themselves, and did not need Singhs to defend them. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Pyare veer niranjana, your post was rather refreshing. I, myself studied Tae Kwon do, then Kickboxing, Traditional Boxing, then a few years of Gatkha, then 5 years of nothing but putting on weight. Now just recently started training again, mainly in an alternative form of highly effective streetfighting - currently has no name. Aswell as this now spend some time doing swimming, aerobic training and weights. I been vegetarian for almost 10 years, and which Guru maharajs kirpa, have had maintained a certain Amritvela. Never felt better. Definately no better lifestyle than Gursikhi. I trained in gatkha for about 3-4 years. I found most students and teachers very undisciplined and unstructured in their approach. I do agree gathka has lost its way. However Niddar singhs brand of shaster vidya is just exploiting this. His philosphy is perverse when compared to sikhi, and generally convinces youth who have little knowldge of gurbani to counter his claims. He has a few good moves, but nothing on the calibre of nihang propoganda. The only decent gathka, I have seen is watching Bhai fauja Singh akhara train here in leeds and bradford. The youth at the fore, have now started to develop their own gatkha thought, like most martial artists do, to analyse, movement and effectiveness. To many gathka akharras rely on India Singhs who teach the same old ritualistic moves, most with zero effectivesness. Then boast at how good they are. Similar to what Bruce Lee saw when he first came to USA and when to comptetitions and saw non-combat karate. As far a martial arts, for many y ears I fought in free style competitions, and met many excellent people. The key to a good martial artist is their humility and respect, not ego. Those who have this know their limitations, and seek more knowledge. In martial artist circles, you hear much talk of this style and that style. I personally believe it is not the style, but the training and its consistency that makes a martial artist. Every style is good if you train hard enough at it. When it comes to fighting, it is all about heart. Having run ins with muslims gangs growing up in Slough, then Fundamentalist Muslim groups like HUT at uni, and Combat 18 in leeds. I have seen it is all about heart. My experiences have taught me most punjabis are first to run, especially ones who talk alot. There are very few Daler (brave) amritdahrees. Which makes you appreciate our Guru, and our Gursikhs in history even more. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Pyare jio, Dass is the author of Kurbani version 1 & 2. The book also has a copyright done by AKJ UK. Please do not put up on any sites until I have approved it. I wish for it to be on as many sites as possible. The more coverage the better. However I wish to ensure that all contents are correct. I was quite sickened to find some nihang websites with pictures of the Shaheeds with derogitory messages. Every Shaheed of The Guru khalsa Panth of the last 25 years of genocide deserves the utmost respect. Even more so do their families. The seva for these books was all niskham seva, and most are given out free, or at nominal money to ensure satkar. Similarly on websites, I would only like them on Pure Gurmat sites with good level of educational value. Also I would like to ensure they are correct in content, and it has all the pictures. I can be contacted at jagjitsingh@f2s.com or jagjit_waheguru@ic24.net Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! pyare bhen ji, glad you enjoyed the smagam. Everything happens as per Guru jis will. By the where are you from? Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Pyare jio, it is a historical document. Much of the Marayada of Harimandar Sahib has come from it. However it also contains many dodgy things aswell. Over the years much of our literature has been changed and manipulated by Nirmales, Udassis, Brahmins, Moguls and British. all to suit their own needs. Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara who is very knowledgable in this area, clearly writes that this documents needs "Shood Shudea" ( checked and cleaned up ) in accordance with the teachings of Sahib Siri Guru Granth sahib ji. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Pyare jio, it was not Baba jarnail singh ji who : killed thousands in delhi riots. killed thousands of sikh youth students. descrated Siri Akal takht Sahib, and killed thousands of innocent pilgrims. responsible for rape of thousands in sikh women. created mass graves all over Punjab. filled trucks with dead bodies in delhi. Sponsored communal voilence in bombs on buses and trains. put children as young as 6 years old in jail, because they witnessed operation Blue star. And still even today: allowed 40 days of roiting in Godhra. allows genocide on minorities. burns Christian missionaries in their cars in name of religion. So when we talk of terrorists. History stands as testimony that they only terrorist was the Indian Government. Baba Jarnail singh was just a Kehni and karni wale Gursikh who spoke the truth. Something we all should do. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Pyare jio, As mentioned Bhapu ji is a term of affection for an elder. The only people who I have come across who called Bhai sahib this were Gursikhs of the generation that were his companions. For example, Bhai jeevan Singh jis singhni calls Bhai sahib, bhapuu ji. Similarly today, many people in Amritsar refer to Puran ji, as daar ji. This is similarly an affectionate name for an elder. Most Gursikhs of subsequent generation all refer to Bhai sahib as Bhai sahib. I am not sure if calling sahib Siri Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj - bhappuu ji is appropriate. It does not seem it to me, I prefer Guru Ji, Sahib Ji, Maharaj, Shahehen Shah, etc. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Pyare jio, to say the Hindu Mandir has no RSS links, is like saying the Klu Klux klan is not white. Not only are they white, but they are white and proud. The Mandir is very open in its views, and is proud of its right wing views. Otherwise you do not say on radio after Babri masjid incident, that us Hindus will contnue until every Mandir in India is destroyed. This was said by them, in a town with 70,000 muslims. I think that is why Mr Shah s pharmacy keeps getting blown up by muslims. So please lets keep to rational. As far as Guru ji in a Mandir. The Guru should only be where there is a Palki, manji sahib, Chuar sahib, and due respect to it. i.e. no matha tekking to idols in its hazoree, so I think Mandirs are out, also it is against Panthic maryada. I applaud your wish to have everyone together in one Gurdwara. i was hoping to pop in on wednesday, but very busy with MA exams. When i came here 5 years ago, I similarly thought the same. Hence we setup leeds& bradford sikhs, which brought both leeds and bradford sikhs all on one platform. there is no hierachy, just youth doing seva togther based on consesus. It has worked well for 5 years and has been growing steadily. What you seem to be doing is just duplicating that. The problem I see as an outsider is that all of you youth are still influenced by your own gurdwaras, eventhough you know this is wrong. You want unity, but only unity at your gurdwara as the base. Which is why rather than calling it singh sabha youth, or with any jathebandie, we called it leeds and bradford sikhs. A common denominating base, which everyone with every vi ew can come under. Rather than setting up an Akal Sikh Group, which people are only going to say is a leeds road thing. Do seva is what is already here, and make a leeds road unit to leeds and bradford sikhs. then you will part of a network of over 70+ youth sevadaars based in many gurdwaras in leeds, bradford and huddersfield. There is no heirachy, everything is done with satkar and consesus. I myself am rarely involved in youth stuff now, but I do see all the youth doing seva with pyaar, and creating unity through actions. waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Pyare jio, I agree with bhenji. You get different types of paat. Some have specific times, ie. nitnem, asa di //, rehras, sohilla, etc. Others are sangatee paats, i.e. sukhmani, Barahmaha, lavan, bavan akhree, etc. If you do japji at other times there is nothing wrong with it. But Guru Ji has designed a specific routine for you. You get up in the morning and do simran abyass. Then you read the five banis of nitnem. Which are the same as when you take amrit. This is to create Amrit in you every morning. the meanings of bani are very specific. Then comes asa di //. that is a morning routine which Guru Ji has given us. Similary you have an evening routine of rehras, and one before you go to sleep. There is so much bani, that a person can spend all day reading many different banis. The more you read, the more you understand the meanings, the more you implement in your life. Then one can understand why each bani is read at what time. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! pyare bhen ji, I do not think anyone is saying there is something wrong. bani is bani. But I do think we need one rehras where all the Panth can come together on. Then whatever bani any individual reads on top of that is up to the individual. the more the better. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Payre jio, i would like to get back to the original debate. As far as khalistan, we all have our views. I believe it will happen, but we are many many years from that yet. It took almost 100 years to get free from British rule, and that was with a huge majority. We cannot ignore the logistics of it. Punjab is empty of sikhs, they are all rushing out here. So until sikhs do not get out of caste issues, and try bringing in Biharis, Singligar, etc into the khalsa fold, no real progress will happen. Pyare jio, as far as the first question, Halemi raj will happen. But no one can sit and wait for it. Parchaar is needed. Every religion lives in hope of the choosen land. Before i heard stories of Nevklan Ki avtaar, so much. We need to wise, and realise that no-one is going to do anything for us. If khalsa wants anything they have to do Udham and achieve it. I believe in the next two decades we will see a huge conflict between Islam and the West. But that would just puts sikhi into more jeopardy, because neither really accept us, just pretend to. So sikhs are going to have to standby themselves and do parchaar and Udham if we want something. In these conflicting times, Gurbani is the only sense, it is us who have to introduce it to the world on a mass scale. waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru jike fateh

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! pyare jio, the rehras sahib is what is in the Panthic maryada as described above. It was originally only the baani is Sahib Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji, then Gursikhi practice added what they read. Gursikhs read alot of baani, and the more the better, but we should not let our egos create disharmony in the Panth. The Panthic rehras is correct. If people wish to read more than fine. But it is wrong to say mine has all this paat, and mine is the Asli rehras. This is completely wrong, because there is no Nakli rehras. Baani is baani. Taksal, nanaksar, nihangs all have added baanian into rehras. This is fine for there own abyass, but to say they are right and others are wrong is incorrect. Baanis have been added over time. For example, I read, "har jug jug bhagat apaaya" before rehras. Possibly in 50 years people will say that is an essential part of rehras. This is how it happens. Baani should bring people together not push them apart. So stick to Panthic rehras. If you want to read more baani, then that is great, but realise it is extra baani. many Gursikhs I know read asa di // in morning nitnem, sukhmani sahib, with rehras. This is abyass of extra baani. For anyone saying we read less bani, then read the prataan singhs daily baani, Panj granthi. Also the extra shabads should make sense. For example, people who read long chopai, does that extra in dasam Granth not come before Benti chapee, so why read it after. Then we say in one shabad you praise kishen, then in next you say, "kishen bishen kaboo na dhavoo". Hence one side praise him, then say do not pra ise him, then finish with "raam raheem Puran Kuran, anekh kahe Mat ik Na manuu". There are many scriptures, etc, do not accept any. So we should also look at what we are saying. A benti lets have one less contrversial issue, let stick to Panthic rehras, then read as much baani as you want on top of that. waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru jike fateh

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Pyare jio, I have read many of his books, Bipran Ki reet, etc. Kala Afgana is taking sikhi from an intellectual, or probably more accurate from an athiest view. Some of his stuff in his first books was very interesting, but some of what he says is very scandalous. In particular his book Maas Maas kar Moorak Jaguray. This is a very sad book, in which shows the complete lack of balance in his thinking. He spends so much time slagging off Bhai Randhir Singh, Baba Gurbachan Singh Bindrawale, Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara, and Baba Jarnail Singh Bindra wale, that one feels like asking has this person any shame. He is so desperate in his bid to get people to accept meat, that most of his arguments are without base, his use of Gurbani is out of context. His so called intellectialism shows a complete lack of faith and practice of Naam abyass. As for this link by one of his protoges. From all of Bhai sahib 30-40 books, that is all he could say. The quotes have been manipulated. For example the first point about the sadhu. Bhai sahib saw no man with a white beard. The author added this himself. The actual moral of that story is only follow the Guru and never a person, because all people have flaws. Again I could go through each point. But this person seems to have little respect for the truth. Lastly, one point which really illustrates everything about Kala afgani. In one of his books, he says, my biggest criticism of Bhai Randhir Singh is that he only quotes gurbani and gives his views on it. He never shows where he gets these views from." Basically he is saying, that Bhai Sahib never source s his writings as all western people do in thesis and disertations, etc. What he fails to understand is that Bhai Randhir Singh was a Pooran Gursikh, he quoted Gurbani, the Primal Source, and explained it. His Knowledge came form abyass, and practical experience. He did not need to use any other person source because he spoke the truth, not any opinions. The problem with Kala Afgani type of intellectuals is that they have no idea of the truth through there own abyass and jeevan, and practical living. So what they do is get gurbani, and see what this person has said, and that person has said, and bring them together with their own opinions, and come to some conclusions as to what that gurbani shabad says. Bhai sahib went to the source and brought out the truth. For example, if Bhai sahib was an historian, he would have been the one to do the hard work and interview the people at the time. Kala afgani types are people who do not do the hard work, take a few books, taking this person version, and that person version, and make up their own version. waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Pyare jio, If I have offended, then please accept apologies, that was not the intention. I do not think we can compare Baba Jarnail Singh and Baba Amar Singh. Baba Jarnail singh was an amazing Gursikh. Baba Amar Singh is very unpopular in Yuba City, california, where he did molest a young bibi. And has cases from hardev Singh Shergill for embezzlement. veer ji, you mention him and Yogi are targeted, but no other spiritual person is. maybe it is just them two have done wrong things. Yes, Sikh school in hayes, was an achievement, but that had nothing really to do with him. It was done by all the rich business men in Slough/Southall. Like Bhullars, etc. It is just none of them had high jeevans, and people like Bhai Rama Singh, etc would not take credit for seva they had not done. He did so they just put him up front. We do support the schools. It was my father who when it started, got slough Gurdwara to pay for the daily coaches which takes all the kids from slough in the early days. The questions I have asked about nanaksar, are from personal experience with them. Possibly it is my fault and just a case of different practices in different places. My grandfather took amrit from nanaksar two decades ago, and they never told him the Gurmantar, and he has always done abyass on Mool Mantar. When I asked the baba why? he said he was illiterate. I said so what, it is easier to do Gurmanter than mool mantar. I found this unacceptable, that some one goes to take Amrit, and they do even give him naam. There is a Singh in slough, who sometimes does seva in the punj. He is illiterate, but he has has m emorised his nitnem and many other banis and is very abyassi. Illiteracy has nothing to do with it. Last time I was in India, we had an akand path at the farmhouse. Nanaksar insisted on doing seva, because they knew my grandfather. In the evening, in the same room as the path, they held a diwan and did katha/keertan. i found this very strange. how can the paati concentrate on the paat. And surely we should be listening to bani, not someone interpretation of it. They made alot of money from sangat. The second evening , when they tried to do that again, I stopped them and told them to listen to bani instead. They were very upset. So I asked them to leave. For them an akand paat seems to be a ritual, and keertan a money making exercise. As you can see I was not impressed at all. There are definatley no virtues of baba Nand Singh in this. Possibly their practices wary from place to place and baba to baba. So apologies, if this is a one-off. By the way, none of them wore kirpans, which is surely a tankaiya situation. Since we have done all akhand paths ourselves, reading all the bani ourselves, the way it should be. Bani is not a business. waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! pyare jio, you get that everywhere. I would not worry about it. Many people in gurdwaras have nothing better to do than gossip and talk. That is the sad state, when in the House of the Guru, that is what enters their minds. Maharaj will bless them one day. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, many do, but equally many do not. This is something I have not seen elsewhere. Everywhere else in the Panth, the kirpan is an essential kakkaar, and never leaves the body. I was wondering why like the rest of the Panth, they are not strict on this. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, many of you seem very passionate about this topic, but I think most of you are missing the point. I am not sure if any of you have done seva in the Panj, I did many years ago. I would not do it now. It is an extremely difficult seva to do. The level of your jeevan for this seva needs to be immense. To often it is taken too lightly. You are there representing the ShahenShah, Sahib Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. That is such a difficult thing. It is like having a kirpan continually on your head, ensuring you do nothing wrong, say nothing wrong, think nothing wrong. It is not something for political correctness. Have bibian, or non-punjabis, or just men. This has nothing to do with it, and it is sillyness. It is purely about JEEVANS. Before the Amrit Sanchaar, the sangat nominates Gursikhs who are considered worthy. They meet before The sahib Siri Guru Granth sahib Ji, and do bhagti together. The room is locked, and everything in there is a secret and kept in there. One by one each Gursikh is questioned about thier jeevan. They have to answer every question, and these are asked by the sangat. Only those who no-one can ever point a finger at, and have immaculate jeevans are selected by the Gursikhs in the room. This just like in 1699 is as per Guru jis bhana. The highest jeevans, based on abyass, spiritual experiences, bhagti, seva, daswand, rehat, and so much more. If at this point, all five are males, then this is fine. If a bibi is there, who jeevan is outstanding, then there is no reason not to give her the due seva, Similarly if a child reaches these level, then the same. The key thing i s JEEVAN, just like in 1699, those 5 with the jeevans came forward. Anyone who understand spirituality will understand this, and how it is possible, and how the Kala Vartaas (spiritual energy flows). So please lets get away from political correctness for its sake, and punjabism for its sake. It is the JEEVANS that matter. The seva of the Panj is so difficult and is not a battleground. The worst thing is, if you were doing this seva, and a sikh comes to you offering his/her head, asking you questions on Gurmat, and you cannot answer them as a Punj. Or if someone comes for Amrit and takes Amrit but does not know the Gurmantar, or something about rehat, or jeevan. It is then those who are in the Punj who are Guru jis Dehandaars. They are not filling his role. So please This seva is very Pavittar and hard, and lets only worry about getting JEEVAN WALE GURSIKHS there, and hope one day we will become one aswell. waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru jike fateh

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, I have a few questions about nanaksar. this is not to put them down, but possibly make them aware. There is a sant called amar Singh, famous for the schools in UK, which was an achievement, even though he actually had nothing to do with it, and they just used his name. Anyway, he has been involved in molestation case, embezzlement cases, and so many other dodgy things, which most people in Uk and USA know about, yet he still seems to be front man for Nanaksar. Why? Also how come no nishaan sahibs? That is a sikh institution. Why are they so scared of wearing kirpans? Why not explain the gurmantar properly in amrit sanchaars? Why when doing akhand paat seva at houses in India, are they doing keertan and katha in the same room and the same time? Why print gutkas that state only people who follow Nanaksar are part of the panth? Why are birthdays of Baba Nand Singh ( a most respectable Gursikh) given more prominence than those of any Gurpurb? Like I said, I am not against nanaksar, just these things I have seen with my own eyes, and did not like. waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, thanks for moderator for forwarding post. veer ji, it is good that you are thinking in this way, and want to get one Gurdwara. That will benefit youth alot in long term. If you need any help just let us know. I myself, am more interested in personal development, and helping youth, rather than banging my head with dodgy pardaans. I have spent too many years doing that. It does not matter what level of sikhi you are, just come and see us at singh sabha anytime. Who knows, maybe one day they will let us do a youth programme at leeds road. In the first year, they let me speak. Then when they realised I was Panthic, and could quote gurbani, they said they did want my kind around. I think only Congress types are welcome there. waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh