JagsawSingh

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-34337626 It was found that meat sold in a Pakistani owned kebab shop in Nottingham was partly meat and partly tutti. ummmm...nice.

There is the everyday lingo of the street, and there's nothing wrong with that because our young are paart and parcel of the environment they live in, and then there is illiterate- pronouncing words like a Bangladeshi freshie - unable to construct sentences cretin lingo. The man that called in to the sikh channel belongs to the latter. Please don't confuse his lack of articulation with the common working class way of talking in the UK today.

There used to be a few videos on you tube about their simran programmes where the sangat stand and shake their heads so violently they actually knock their own turbans off. Looks like those videos have been taken down now. Basiclly, pmkc is a cult. A pretty stupid one at that. Apparently they have a bit of an influence over the overseas malwai community, especially in places such as Canada. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/49088-can-some-please-explain-what-is-going-on-in-this-video/

I'm this persistent in understanding why and how a certain type of 'news' story originates in the Daily Mail.

Its more than mere 'congestion' Ranjeet. It is actually 'history' unfolding right in front of our eyes but, as usual, we as a quom, are too asleep too see it. It is, in a sense, deja vu. The conversations we're having today about ramgharia gurdwaras are the same our children will be having in 20 years time on the internet about the Arora / Khatri Gurdwaras being established in the UK by the Afghan Sikhs. Our children will log onto Sikh forums and ther'l be discussions about the problems associated with 'caste based' Gurdwaras. Just like is happening today, the sons and daughters of those Afghan Sikhs will say the jatts prevented them from entering their gurdwaras and they had no choice but to build their own ones. Just like is happening today most people will swallow their story and not pin the blame on them for creating those caste based Gurdwaras for no reason in the first place. But thats the future. We're alive and allegedly awake today. We're living in a time where the news stoies are full of the desperate suffering of Sikhs in Afganistan and the discovery of dead Afghan Sikh bodies in shipping containers so shouldn't we be asking why on earth these Afghan sikhs think it is appropriate to spend tens of millions of dollars on a brand new gigantic Gurdwara when an aready stupendously giant Gurdwara already exists exactly 200 yards away ??????????

The 'news' story is from the Daily Mail. Must be true then.

Wow. :wow: A few questions come to mind: What language is that mirpuri muppet speaking ? How is it that a man born and bred in the land of the English language can have such an uunbelievably low grasp of the English language? I don't doubt him when he says he can get sikh girls but what I'd like to know is what on earth goes through a girls mind when she decides she's like 'to be with' a neandethal such as this who can barely string a sentence together ? I've known people (Sikhs like you and me) (my family and your family) who can never get through to the Sikh channell on one of their phone-ins. In fact, their phone-ins are so difficult to get through to its easier to pick up a saudi women in a hijab. You get to the operator (I know.....i've tried) and they either tell you your views are not welcome, you get cut off or......if you're an elderly uncle....they don't give you any information, don't say a word, and then all of a sudden put you on air. Thats when the host says "WJKK WJKF" and the elederly caller is perplexed as to who he's talking to, is he live on air, should he say what he phoned in to say in the first place but is having second thoughts because 30 seconds ago he just opened up his heart about his feelings on the matter to the girl that picked up the phone at the Sikh Channell but she didn't bother telling him that she'd put his call on mute and placed him on the waiting list. Yet this pot smoking illiterate junkie sexist disease ridden Mirpuri gets live on air without asking and gets to spew his incomprehensable bollocks without being challenged for several minutes. I'm wondering then, is it the Sikh Channel themselves that set this up as a publicity excercise ?

You don't appear to understand irony Big Tera. My point, albeit a bit too subtle for you, was that a perfectly large Gurdwara stood in a place and that Gurdwara was already more than large enough to cater for thousands of people. A group of Sikhs from Afganistan arrive. They all belong to one particular group (Arora). They don't like the idea of sharing their presence with other Sikhs such as Jatts, Bhatras, Ramgharias etc, so they decide, for no good reason, because there's absolutely no better use for such money anywhere in the world, i.e no starving children or anything, they decide to spend another £20 million or whatever on an equally large Gurdawara right in front of the extremely large Gurdwara that already stands. Now that I've spelt it out for you, surely you can now spot the ironic nature of my first message ?

And so, the teenage boys in the Midlands, got their knickers in even bigger twists. Steam. It did come out from their ears. Fuming. Anger. Shaking with distress. Scared about what the future may hold. For a Sikh human being. Living 6000 miles away. Did something kind and decent for another human being. That other human being now has a place to pray. This is terrible. It will definately unleash the caliphate. Basakhi will be banned. Our sons will be forcibly circumcised. And forced to marry their cousins. What are we going to do ? How could that Sikh man. 6000 miles away. Do such a terrible thing. A terrible terrible thing. The world will surely now end. This is no time for rationality. It is the end of Sikhi as we know it. For a man now has a place to pray. Someone informed the NHS doctor. That there's a teenage sikh boy in the midlands. Who gets thoroughly worked up. And incredibly irate. And extremely fearfull. Over simple and single acts of human kindness. The doctor called the police. The police liaised with social services. And together they had him sectioned. Under the Mental Health Act 1983.

About 20 Gurdwaras in Southall mate. Which one ? If its the £20 million Havelock road one, make the most of it because the Afghan Sikhs have nearly completed their even better one which is directly in front of it and will soon obstruct the view.

Yeah the doaba Sikhs were pretty much reponsible for most of the killings. In fact they (my family included) were prolific. Put it this way, 2 and half times more Muslims were killed during the partition of Punjab than Sikhs and Hindus and it was the doaba Sikhs, especially around district Jalandhar (which was at that time majority Muslim) that went into murder overdrive. In the context of this thread, these are facts that the wider community are not made aware of because the authors of books about partition have always been from the urban khatri stock and they have ensured the story of the 'Sikh' during partition is always seen from the prospective of the passive urban 'businessman' who is perpetually the victim. They've ensured that is the defining version of what happened to all Sikhs at that time. The fact that for a large portion of rural Doaba and Malwa Sikhs partition was a purely a time of being the frenzied killer and not the victim is not a story that has ever been allowed to be told. In this respect, this new book is just a continuation of that. The fact that the Sikh zamindars of Lyallpur and Montgomery practically owned agricultural land the size of small countries is irrelevent to the author. Thats why he misses it out of his book completely. Let us not forget that those powerfull men were veterans of the Army and the British made it crystal clear n official policy back then that the background the author belongs to was not allowed to settle in that land. Thats why the author feels no affinity for those places that most of us here in the west mostly associate with our Sikh legacy in Pakistan. Thats why he completely ignores it in his book. Thats why, for the wider world, this is a good book but for we Sikhs it is an incomplete and flawed book.

The vast majority of all male babies born in America (including Sikh ones) are, as a matter of routine, circumcised in the hospital at birth. As for your username, number 2 is always better than number 1 because it is a bigger number. And often, when you're going for a number 1 it is in fact a number 2 that comes out. Especially if you've just eaten Mexican food. This is not a problem. As long as you remember to sit down at that point.

And so, a Sikh human being built a mosque, for another human being. But 6000 miles away, in cold and windy blighty, trouble was afoot. Alot of Sikh human beings, who had never met that muslim human being nor the Sikh one, didn't like the idea, of him having a place to pray. They were convinced, that, the one lovely thing that the Sikh human being did, would most definately lead to, their sisters and neices, being groomed by muslim peadophiles, and halal meat being served, in sarkari schools, and sharia law being implemented, as well as shops being forced to close on Fridays, and compulsory fasts in ramadam, and women's faces covered up, and an explosion of first cousin marriages, and explosions on buses and crowded buses, And so, farewell then, rational thought. If only that Sikh human being who did something kind for another human being, stopped first of all, and thought about the feelings and fears of, a teenage Sikh boy in the midlands of england, before he went ahead, and did what he did. The midlands sikh boy could have remained calm, and not got his knickers in such a twist.

I'm sure, Jcfsingh2 (btw...whatever happened to Jacfsingh1?) there are those on the other side of the pond from America wandering how it could be that most male children born in America are routinely circumcised at birth in hospital, whereas it is extremely rare around here in Europe (unless you're a Muslim or Jew). You could start your own American petition about that ?

I always thought he was khatri because he used the last name Sodhi. Its only natural I should think that, as I'm sure if you met someone with the last name Tagliattori you would naturally think he was Italian. But, you may be right and I may be wrong because after reading your message I read what 1984 tribute.com had to say about his life story and it according to them he's from a non-khatri village background. The website doesn't say what background but the fact that his village is in the Hoshiarpur district of Doaba we can probably narrow it down to either Jatt or Saini, as those 2 groups are the landowners there in equal measures.

The greatest of the greatest during our struggles in the 80's was a 'khatri' ; Surinder Singh Sodhi.

OK so I'm currently working on a personal project whereby I'm gonna try and send every Indian govt agent mega-rich Gurdwara pardhan in the UK to jail. I'm starting with the object of this thread, Southall's Gurmail Singh Malhi. My expertise is not business , tax etc so I need some help and guidance from any of you that can. One of Mr Malhi's bussiness is 'Goldbridge Construction ltd' based in Southall. I've discovered that he initially set it up along with an imaginary women called 'Barbara Kahan'. With further research I have discovered that this old woman called Barbara Kahan is the name that many thousnds of dodgy and illegal companies have set up with, mostly with the intention of committing either bankruptsy fraud or any other type of fraud. I've also discovered that the widespread fraud connected with the name 'barbara kahan' also spreads across the Atlantic where American regulators are investigating 'flower shop' fraud. Can anyone help ?

Maybe in terms of property and perhaps even rape and forced hair cutting, but in terms of murder / death, records show that the greatest number of deaths among Sikhs occurred in the poorer areas of Delhi such as Trilokpuri, thus the Bhatra Sikhs by far suffered the most in terms of Sikhs being massacred. That system became the norm for all urban khatri Hindus of Punjab during maharaja Ranjit Singh's reign.but we should not forget the main reason for it : Money and Wealth. You see, after the Sikhs became the regional power, and a major central Asia power, the urban khatri group of Hindus saw the opportnities that existed in terms of government jobs and business in the far reaching Sikh empire. Thats was the main reason they sometimes made one of their sons a Sikh ; Wealth.

We know all that but what we're saying is that the author has deliberately chosen to neglect from this book everything about the legacy in Pakistan of the jatt Sikhs, choosing instead, to make the cultural legacy of the urban sikhs the defining legacy of Sikhs in that part of Punjab. What we're saying is that historically, all our authors have been doing this for the last 100 years. Mostly because, for the last 100 years, most of our authors have been from that privileged elite urban stock but the result, as proactive has mentioned, is that it has given the wider world a false and unbalanced window into the 'Sikhs'. This book then is aptly has the word 'legacy' in its title because it is continuing the legacy of pretending that the jatt Sikhs just ain't there and certainly just don't matter. In previous generations, the authors used to get away with that scott free because most of the jatt Sikhs were not book readers and didn't even know what what happening in the literary world. Today, however, the western world is choc a block full of educated jatt Sikhs who are not only vocal but also very capable of pointing out the clear faults with this new book.

My point is not about him personally, its about the wider group of jathas, kirtanis, paracharaks etc. The point is to understand that younger western born Sikhs have more gyan than their parents and grandparents that came from India. Younger Sikhs are more enlightened. When a parachark or kirtan jatha come on the Sikh channel younger ones can see the wider picture and separate the beauty from the illusion. For example, when listening to a jatha such as Harinder Singh from Nirvair Khalsa Jatha, the younger more enlightened ones will ask themselves why Harinder Singh likes to quote certain Gurbani but conveniently leaves out the bits of Gurbani that state he is doing wrong by not working for a living and having these kirtan programmes as his sole living income. You see, our Gurus were just so ahead of the times. They knew so much. They knew what was going to happen, not least because the other semetic faiths went through similar phases. Our Gurus knew there would be men who would come along and make money from Sikhi and they knew it would be easy for the masses to accept that. That is why Gurbani is so clear on this issue. They knew that the cult of personality would take over. Sikhs would become followers and fans of men first and followers of their living Guru only second. We're at that stage now. We say we believe in Gurbani but do so in words only. In actions, we are followers of this man or that man, this jatha or that jatha. So, this is what it boils down to when searching for answers as to why younger Sikhs are turning away from the Sikh channels. The younger ones have a genuine spiritual hunger and thirst. They want things that will quench that thirst, satisfy that hunger. They are beyond the stage their parents were at, i.e blindly accepting things as they are simply because thats the 'punjabi' and 'desi' way of doing things. But, that is what the Sikh tv channels are giving them.

This is what you yourself, Sad Singh, said in your previous message : "I dont think the channel even needs to buy the rights to Maskeen Ji's vids and kathas. i remember hearing that Maskeen Ji's family is rich, dont know if its true. his cds have been selling really good for years"

Thats very clever of you jkvlondon. You just completely ignored Gurbani / Gurmat as if the words of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji do not matter too much. Let me tell you right now : EVERY man should work for a living and do kirtan out of pure love for the Guru when not working. It is a priviledge to do so. EVERY man that makes his living from kirtan / katha etc will go to hell. Our living Guru is more than clear on this. I'll repeat it again : From Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji: 'Cursed are the lives of those who read and write the Lord's Name to sell it' (page 1245 Guru Nanak dev ji salok) 'The Name of the Lord alone is my wealth. I do not tie it up to hide it, nor do I sell it to make my living' (page 1157, Bhagat Kabir)

Looks like a really interesting book. Look forward to reading it. However, I'm gonna go ahead and say what needs to be said. Looking at the map of Pakistan that the author has provided, i.e the areas he is concerned with, it is clear that this book is more of a personal journey for him to re-discover his own family's urban roots and thus has little or none that is relavent to our collective family history. For example, 95% of the jatt Sikhs that migrated into India from Pakistan in 1947 came from the canal colonies, i.e Lyallypur (Faisalabad) and Montgomery (Sahiwal) and yet the author has decided to ignore those areas so comprehensively he has't even menioned them on his map.

Surely then, according to Gurbani, Maskeen is a hopeless sinner ? From Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji: 'Cursed are the lives of those who read and write the Lord's Name to sell it' (page 1245 Guru Nanak dev ji salok) 'The Name of the Lord alone is my wealth. I do not tie it up to hide it, nor do I sell it to make my living' (page 1157, Bhagat Kabir)You people in the last few messages have failed in your attempts to find solutions as to why younger, western born Sikhs, are turning away from the Sikh tv channels. The problem right now is that mega rich old men with no actual spiritual substance (most of whom got rich through immoral means) control the tv content because their money buys them air time. But you guys are suggesting we replace them with different old and very rich men :nono:

Well, thats a good question. After gaining noteriety in the 1960's with their epic seaside battles with the Rockers, immortalised in celluloid with the classic film 'Quadrephenia' they made a brief re-appearance in the 1980s especially among fans of the pop group The Jam. Since then, their fashion of slim fit shirts, ties and suits do occassionally give inspiration to various European fashion designers but essentially the only place you'll find them is in provincial A-Roads and Motorways on Sunday mornings riding their mopeds in groups of about 20, slowing down traffic, preventing you from reaching that wedding in Coventry you're trying to get to in time. As they are all middle aged boring suburban moped enthusiasts reminiscing about the 60's, you won't find them in the big metropolises like London, Birmingham etc. So, in answer to your question 'Where are the Mods', I would say the answer is Wiltshire, on the A-Road, on a Sunday morning. Thats where they are.