dallysingh101

^^^ But his use of contemporary sources as evidence was awesome.

I think most of his work is available for free online now. Sikhbookclub.com smashed it in that respect. You have to remember that most of the professor's work was created during the colonial period, when the european style of 'history' heavily influenced his own approach to historiography. So it has the inherent positives and negatives of that approach embedded within in that respect. I think precolonial Sikh historiography (as exemplified by Rattan Singh Bhangu) was much more honest and raw than the later 'sanitised' euro-christian-victorian era influenced ones.

Pretty much everything in the video comes from decades old research of Dr. Ganda Singh into the matter. So it's not any new discovery. But maybe the part of the panth that this channel caters for, aren't too closely associated with that type of modern Sikh historiography - hence it might be new to them?

Haven't watched all the video but I must say I did like the way they put advanced Gurmukhi words up with english translations throughout the presentation. Even though it seemed to be happening at (arguably) too frequent a rate (in terms of allowing someone to absorb that many new words in one go) - I think it is a brilliant way to help people increase vocabulary.

This has come about as the result of insidious actions from people both within our community and some outside. Right now (in the UK) it's time we faced down the <banned word filter activated> amongst our own that promote this buckwaas under the guise of 'culture'. Funny how the only 'culture' that gets promoted is kunjar culture that involves publically getting plastered and prancing about, whilst other more sophisticated elements of our Sikhi heritage - like reading literature, increasing our linguistic skills and vocabulary, shaster/aster training are totally ignored. Given the active promotion of the simple-minded 'cultural' things over the more intellectual/sophisticated ones - and that too for decades (if not over a century) - is it any wonder we're in the state we are in?

I think there is definitely a movement in the UK to start to try and face and reverse the association of 'balle-balle- pareepa' culture and Sikhi. Right now, the promotion of certain aspects of jut-penduism has resulted in a scenario where even on Vasaikhi celebrations you'll have young apneean dancing on stages for all and sundry to see. I don't care about any peasant-harvest culture/celebration. There is NO WAY our Guru's would have promoted this. And people from certain backgrounds should realise and acknowledge that this state of affairs only exists because they've been using the Sikh community as some sort of smoke screen to promote backwards, unsophisticated culture and passing it off as somehow related to Sikhs. There are more sullay juts than Sikh ones. I don't see them kunjaring out their daughters like this in the name of jut culture? If you love all that pendu culture - that is your business, but I know not all juts do. A few of them (a circumspect minority) see this buckwaas for what it is. Now the rest of them need to stop being fudhu-bundhay and wake up too. I don't think Sant ji (for instance) would have been happy to see pendus dressed like clowns and prancing about on stage - let alone Sikh girls.

Yeah, well, certain clownish, bhangra paa-ing, docile chaploosian seem to have been coming from certain quarters for a long while now, under the guise of preserving 'rural culture'. And they've even managed to turn other people into buffoons too, through majority influence. They've basically got apnay men AND women (and children) dancing like kunjars on stages for all the see - like this is some sort of achievement for their 'culture'. No wonder everyone thinks these people are dumb. Stop being in denial about this.

That's not true is it. If we look at original manuscripts (puratan granths, hukam namas etc.) it says Singhs were instructed to carry panj hathiar, one of which was a bandook. That just carrying a blunt kirpan is a VERY modern thing, obviously put in place by goray in their objective to disarm Singhs (probably). Here's MK:

I think the Chandhu issue might have been the commonly accepted one (in the community) for centuries. It's only when (probably Dr. Ganda Singh) opened up all the Persian sources of Sikh ithihaas (which had become inaccessible as a consequence of 'annexation' and the linguistic changes that took place in the panth during this period,- specifically learning angrezi over farsi). A lot of Persian sources that were generally unknown to the masses came out then. Heck, even Gurmukhi sources that were largely unknown to the masses came out too (like Sainapati's Gursobha). This is when people started to use contemporary or near contemporary sources to explore history. Problems come when traditionalists are hostile to sources that contradict the accepted narrative.

Jahangir's explicit mention of Guru ji's shaheedi and his reasons for issuing the order (in his Persian memoirs) wasn't known until fairly recently - so it is no wonder that apnay might have amplified hearsay or other minor, associated contemporary events which became 'common knowledge'. According to the one that issued the order for execution, it was his belief that Guru ji was false and his anger at Guru ji's popularity and the way hordes of people were converting to Sikhi (including muslims) - that made him issue the order.

I just think certain people from a particular jaat are doing their typical buckwaas of slyly trying to promote their homo-pendu culture over Sikhi. What the hell has wearing a chaadra have to do with Sikhi? I'd say the kachera says everything about Guru ji's attitude towards the long he-skirt - that has come to be associated with head waggling stupidity these days - whatever it meant in medieval pend culture. And I think it might be that certain brothers who identify as females might be trying to find excuses to dress as one?

Seriously I don't know. I mean I only watched a Panjabi film (well half of it) after 20/15 years the other day (Udta Punjab). Can you imagine my shock! The last time I watched them, it was all about Gurdas Maan fannying about in the khets of the pend, singing folk songs and gallantly combating the rich, spoilt village balatkaar. Have to say Udta Punjab did sort of more accurately portray aspects of apna society though - especially the swearing.

Yeah, and I bet you love that.......

Can you see how these goray theories of 'race' manages to infiltrate certain apnays minds in such a deep way that it essentially creates new fault lines in the panth and has them imagining themselves and history in a totally dysfunctional way. This daft bird above would probably have insulted those panj piaray that didn't come from Panjab as some 'inferior breed'. If she had been in the Uk she'd have probably been targeted by groomers because of her 'intelligence'. I think most rural apnay appear to be easily influenced/manipulated by outsiders when it comes to identity - this explains a lot. Goray could have left 50/60 years ago but certain people still cling on to their divisive (to Sikhi) notions of identity and race to this day.

This doesn't because of the shasters. Chadurs look especially gay when they are worn by ecstatically grinning blokes, in bright colours, who then proceed to head waggle away to a dhol and tumbhee. You know what I mean.

I'm not remotely g@y, but I still think chadhar can look hardcore g@y. It's a big skirt for Gawd's sake! The kachera wasn't given out for no small reason. I'm sure one of the reasons was to give an alternative to blokes in skirts.

I don't know. How many of the people in the above photo was in the angrez fauj?

Who is she? A bollywood actress or something?

(The late) Jagjit Singh is a heavyweight. I just found out that he was also a chemistry lecturer at university level too. Here's a short video on one of his books. There is a link to an ebook (the Sikh revolution) in the book section.

Seriously admin......you've become so desperate for posts that you tolerate this ... ^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, and now we are seeing that there are links between groomers and Islamist fundamentalist groups in the west. You can add professional heroin dealers in that nexus too. For all we know, these people could be paying off corrupt cops/politicians to help cover up their stuff - they have the money for it - and this would explain why the establishment has dragged its feet over the issue (and still continues to do so) decade after decade. Apnay want to wake up to this reality.

I agree, but I think a lot of people struggle to accept a lot of the stuff in primary historical sources because it goes against modern perceived notions. I'm not saying that we accept everything in them, but we should at least not go into a tizzy when things we might not practice today as a community is referred to within.

Okay buddy. Just take those pills the psychiatrist prescribed you, and relax.

Good for you. Now get lost and stop ruining this thread. I'm sure there is some barn dance you could be at instead.

Do you think apnay are getting clued up to these games these days? Especially the younger ones?