Sukhvirk1976

The nihangs would make them eat pork!? I've never heard that do you have any sources for me to research? The term khalsa existed before vaisakhi 1699 Awwal Allah noor upaya qudrat keh sub banday aik noor teh sub jag upajiya kaun bhale ko mandhe (God created light of which all the beings were born And from this light, the universe; so who is good and who is bad?) Logaa bharam na bhoolahu maahi khaliq khalq khalaq meh khaaliq poor rahio sarab tha'ee (The creation is in the creator And the creator is in the creation) Maati aik anaik bhaanth ker saaji sajan haray na kash poch maati kay bhanday na kash poch kunbharay (The clay is the same, but the designer has fashioned it in various ways Nothing is wrong with the pot of clay and there is nothing wrong with the potter) Sub meh sacha aiko soee dis ka keya sub kuch hoyi hukm pachanay saee ko janay banda kahiyeah soee (The one true Lord abides in all and by his making everything is made Whoever realises His command, knows the One Lord and he alone is said to be the Lord's slave) Allah alkh na jaee lakhiya gur gur dheena meetha kahay Kabir mair sanka naase sarab Niranjan (The Lord Allah is invisible and He cannot be seen; the Guru has blessed me with this sweet brown sugar Says Kabir, my anxiety and fear have been taken away; I see the immaculate Lord pervading everywhere)

Do me a favour.. I love the way you have just skirted around the whole issue.. I said there behaviour was shameless.. I could very easily have said that there actions made them patit.. But I didn't.. When I called out @jkvlondon my objection was quite clearly as to what gives her the right to in effect excommunicate someone from the panth. Who am I to measure or anyone on here for that matter to label someone like that.. If @jkvlondon had phrased it "in my opinion" I would have been less likely to have questioned it. In my opinion their behaviour was shameless, to beat the case they lied.. What does it say about how deep their beliefs run since they disowned them.. Tomorrow morning they may say we not even sikh to beat the charges To get back to the point do you think a sikh who has the conviction to make such a stand and then deny it should be celebrated? Don't you think that acting in the gurus name is a serious step and to deny it is a illustration of how fickle their faith is? Please answer the question I'm interested to hear it Let me just say I would question and challenge anyone who called these two guys patit.. I'm was providing examples based on the measures used on this group.. I think you are right to pull me up on my terminology.. I was angry and incensed at the actions of these people.. I should have more restraint.. Also maybe I was being a provocateur. I get that you don't agree with my understanding of sikhi just as much as I don't get yours or many people's on here. But I believe I apply very strict rationale to my logic and if and when a rational logical argument is presented and not just nindya I listen.. But if as what usually happens on here people just come with lazy slanderous pejoratives then and I just folded and accepted their propositions because it was easier, then what kind of sikh would I be? I study hard, question my assumptions with rigour.. And I won't be bullied.. Believe me my motivations to be on this group and staying on it despite being clearly unwelcome are only because I love sikhi.. Not because I need my ego massaged, although I could try harder not to take the bait.. We all learning, each and every moment.. In fact I believe that it is through vigorous criticism that we learn.. Having sycophantic communication is easy.. It's when we are challenged that we learn.. Guru arjun dev ji taught us to welcome nindya So I'm here I can take it

Apparently by their own submission they weren't there to prevent the wedding.. I think shutting the gurdwara down and preventing access was a far greater beadbi

Well usually in British courts a ghutka is used.. To be fair even if they didn't take a oath on anything the fact that the just outright lied is bad enough.. Why couldn't they just tell the truth and face the music.. If they had conviction in what they believe Calling someone shameful and someone a apostate are totally different things.. I love how your relativism helps you justify their actions.. I guess you think its OK to just lie MOD note- Please contain your replies to one post, it isn't hard.

Except they didn't put their career on the line. They lied to get out of it.. I did ask questions of the sikhpa and syf yesterday and their silence on the issue speaks volumes

Well that's alright then lol

You yourself accepted that in their submissions they claimed that they were not their to protest against the marriage I don't think your sikh... I had you down as the thong song fella? Everything I have said is based published evidence.. You just don't want to admit you're mates don't have the integrity and conviction of opinion they should..

Clever wording! You mean they lies under oath as Sikhs I'm guessing on a ghutka.. And here was me thinking in sikhi we had a tradition of standing up for our beliefs and not denying them.. They should be ashamed of themselves they couldn't face the consequences of their actions which if they did it for their beliefs should have been easy. Their sikhi was so cheap they lied to get off what was probably only ever going to be a small fine. If these guys aren't the guardians of sikhi they are the problem.. On top of which they made false allegations against the gurdwara Committee Disgraceful behaviour

Oh ok I haven't read that article care to share the source?

I meant exactly what I said it is a bit rich to call me a pendu

Although brother I have reported things on a number of occasions and I have never received a response back to inform me of the actions taken.. Moreover my posts are approved by administrators for some reason.. How many other users are subject to the same censorship?

BTW do you agree with my translation of the term patit?

So now that we have that sorted can we get back to my original point and try to find out why @jkvlondon used such inflammatory language and thinks it is OK to do that without any basis.. I'm sure you would agree it is not appropriate?

Firstly let me apologise and accept that you did not apply the term but rather @jkvlondon did. My bad. Humbly accept my apologies. Now of course I think the word has some meaning.. Else as you said why would I have objected to it and more specifically objected to the use of it so callously.. My objection I thought was self evident.. My best translation of the word in to English would be 'apostate'. Again I thought that was a common translation. Why my interpretation matters is of little value since I am not the one using such pejorative terms.. I would ask why @jkvlondon has felt qualified to apply such a term.. I find it fascinating that you would want to pull me up rather than temper or advise @jkvlondon to use such inflammatory language. Unless you think it is not that offensive.. Do you not think it is offensive to apply that term without due process?

I would be very happy to volunteer

Bro you can ask me anything you want here I'm flattered that you have spent some time looking for me online I'm pretty active on Facebook and whilst I do have a twitter and Instagram account don't really use them I wouldn't say I was active on either of the two latter apps.. It's easy to find me since I don't have a username that hides my identity.. What you sow is what you reap, for better or for worse, my interpretation may be wrong and I'm happy to modify my opinions if convinced..

Share evidence.. Bro they denied being at the protest to stop the wedding.. That is the statement they made in court.. It's been recorded in court.. https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/local-news/sikh-temple-protest-men-deny-14250016.amp

They lied in court statements pretending they weren't there to protest against the wedding.. What a croc of <banned word filter activated>.. They shut the gurdwara down to stop the wedding going ahead.. This is what the organisers of the protest themselves professed.. When did singhs become so spineless as to not stand up what they believe and deal with the consequences Plastic singhs

That's cleared it up then...

Since you applied the term maybe you should also be brave enough to define it!

You seem to be very confused, so let me help you out.. But let me first just humbly suggest that you think out a proposition before just going for it.. Since in your very own post you are contradicting the overall assertion You ask me question and presented 4 options to choose from. But you then make a number of suppositions.. A sikh defends the truth. A true sikh doesn't need to trash other opinions or points of view but neither needs to evangelise. When guru gobind singh ji wrote zafarnama he told aurangzeb that he wasn't a true Muslim because his actions were not those of Islam. He did not say aurangzeb you are because you are Muslim neither did he say I am better than you because I am sikh. Truth is truth one doesn't need force someone to believe it.. It should be self evident to the individual.. When guru teg bahadur ji gave his life, he did it not to support brahmanism which he obviously rejected for its inequality but taught us that each and every one of us have the right to believe what we want.. And that it can only be through our actions that we can show how powerful truth is.. Guru Granth Sahib ji has writings made up many bhagats writing in many languages.. Gurbani sangeet celebrates the plurality.. Muslim rababis used to sing in darbar sahib and in anandpur sahib amongst many other places.. Guru gobind singh ji told us to defend the truth to defend our right to have our truth but never to feel the need to impress it upon others.. Else we would become no different than those oppressors who we were speaking against!

Please don't forget to find examples to substantiate your accusations. I'm still waiting but don't really expect anything.. Go on surprise me

Wow just wow! How does anyone know that the person throwing the punch was not a so defined sikh

Shameless.. These guys in court lied under oath on ghutka and you guys are praising them! Disgraceful

These muppets lied in court pretending they weren't there to protest against a so called mixed race marriage.. What a joke.. What kind of plastic singhs are they