Charandhoor Singh

i agree we cant decide who is and who isnt brahmgiani. however, the question remains: IF one individual believes in raagmala as bani, and the other believes raagmala is not bani, can they both be brahmgianis? as highlighted the lack on consunsus amongst the rehat maryada shows the differencs and inconsistencies, however these are not as fundamental or as major as aredifferences in beliefs in the authenticity of gurbani. "Bani Guru, Guru Hai Bani" - this is not flexible, there can be no differing over views/opinions etc if someone is a brahmgiani. therefore to reitterate the question again: IF one individual believes in raagmala as bani, and the other believes raagmala is not bani, can they both be brahmgianis?

Gurfateh. Having watched the video on 'brahmgiani darshan', i have an honest question. The first few minutes of the video appear to be dedicated to gurmukh bhai sahib randhir singh ji, others include the likes of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji and Baba Nand Singh Ji. I cant say i know too much about the bhaisahib randhir singh, however, as far as I am aware (apologies if i am incorrect), bhai randhir singh didnt believe in raagmala as bani. If this is the case, then can those who believe in raagmala and those who dont both be brahmgianis. Whilst i ackowledge that brahmgianis have different views regarding methods, simran correct path etc. I also ackowledge that mere humans cannot try and determine the all realise the power or avasta od 'brahmgiani'. However, gurbani is divine and from nirankar, it is therefore not adaptable or flexible as other issues are. Therefore I feel that if one person believes in a section of gurbani, and another believes it is not gurbani - they cant both be brahmgianis. I have no intention of this turning into a debate regarding the authentication of the raagmala as im sure its already been discussed. I believe that the such a fundamental difference means that either bhai randhir singh was a brahmgiani and that all other mahapursh have not reached brahmgian. Or that the likes of others such as Sant Isher Singh Ji, Baba Nand Singh Ji, Baba Atter Singh Ji etc, were Brahmgianis and that Bhai Randhir Singh wasnt. I feel that one of these scenerios has to be correct, such opposite and incompatible believes cannot both constitute brahmgian. Unless the view of Damdami Taksal is to be accepted that Bhai Randhir sought forgiveness from their jathedar (as he was the head of guru gobind singh jis taksal) towards the very end of his life for the role he played in the anti-raagmala issue. Very debatable. Above all I recognise that people should focus on their own bani, simran, seva. However as the connotations of the term 'brahmgiani' are not minimal, I feel this should be discussed. After all if the word 'brahmgiani' was being used to loosely and incorrectly would it not constitite beadbi? - probably depending on your definition of beadbi. Anyway to reitterate, due to the fundamental differences over the belief of raagmala (in particular over any other issue), I believe that either bhai randhir singh can be considered a brahmgiani and others not, or the likes of sant isher singh, sant gurbachan singh bhinderwanwle, baba nand singh etc were brahmgianis and bhai randhir singh not. Unless the view of some members of damdami taksal are to be accepted that bhai randhri singh ji sough forgivness from their jathedar (Who at the time i believe was sant kartar singh bhinderanwale). I know where I stand on the issue. Look forward to some discussion and reading peoples justification for their opinions. Again to reiterate im no looking for a raagmala debate. thanks Rub Rakha.

Nice article

Its something very many people fantasise about but very rarely grasp the reality of it. Many people have tried explaining in different words what a Nihang is, including some scholars. In my own experiences of staying with the Nihang Singhs, such articles fail tremendously to grasp the essence of 'Nihang' and instead add to the increasing fantasisation and serve as false sources of information. If you want to know what a Nihang Singh is my advice to you is to go to India and stay with them, if not heres the next best thing: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1...ihang&hl=en :D

Questions and points raised perhaps illustrates the reality of the anti beadbi campaign.

Gurfateh. Very interesting post, I too have been thinking about this for a long time. I think it can be said that what constitutes 'beadbi' depends on an individuals perception and their ability to rally other people round them. It is a word with severe connotations and one which which has a great emotional and psychological impact. Therefore it is a very dangerous word whcih can harbour dangerous consequences. The word 'Beadbi' has been thrown around and I do think it is the group with the loudest voice that decided what constitutes beadbi. Difficuilty arises in difference in ideology, for example it has long been a tradition to shower maharaj with beautiful flowers, however, many people now consider this an act of beadbi. There is no established and recognised organistional hierarchy free from ideological bias which determines what is beadbi, and perhaps there should be. Until there is people will decide for themselves or more likely follow what other say is beadbi. Whilst it should be the duty of every Gursikh to prevent the beadbi of maharaj, i too am slighlty confused at the almost 'commercialisation' of beadbi.

'Any1 can wear a farla' - what bani, historical, written or oral account of history are u basing such blasphemous remarks ? - NONE!!!!! u r simply making this up based on ur interpretation of 'equality'. Anyone who wears a farla without being given one disrespects guru gobind singh ji and his youngest son baba fateh singh ji. Baba Fateh Singh Ji is credited with the innovation of the farla and is thus considered the supreme commander of all nihang singhs - this is why only the jathedar of the nihang singhs (Budha Dal) can give a farla. If you have a problem with the farla maryada is suggest you take it up with guru gobind singh ji maharaj. The only person who should 'shut it' is you. Making comments based on your petty assumptions and made up fantasies is useless for everyone and also misguiding.

yes however nihang singhs (particuarly from baba bakala) played an big role, i met many nihang singhs who were directly involved in the case, many have lost family and friends at the hands of poohla and therefore are fuly determined to bring him to justice one way or another. I have nothing further to comment on this. In relation to farla, why ask a question (about farla) and then answer based on nothing more than personal opinion and beliefs. The issue is regarding the maryada and the traditional khalsa ways set forth by guru gobind singh ji - so with all due respect your personal opinion is highly irrelevant. gupt-babbar you ask how the farla system work but then comment on people 'demanding a farla' lol. seek to obtain knowledge to and understand before criticising or making judgements. the responsibility of deciding and presenting a farla is left to the jathedar of the panth and the panj pyarai. Not everyone can get one because not everyone can be a jathedar.

"they y do nihangs allow such fools as ajit phoola the corrupt fake nihang to wear a farla???" incase you didnt know it was nihangs who helped catch phoola

what Nihang Vikramdeep Singh is 100% accurate. Similar to when it hurts Sikh sentiments if someone was to wear a kalgi (plume adorned by Guru Gobind Singh Ji), it is offensive for a Sinngh to falsly adore the form of a Mahakaal. To my knowldege shaheed talwinder singh babbar was not given a farla by the Dal, and while i bow down to his courage and bravery i would like to reittirate that this constitutes a mass violation of maryada.

If you dont know what a term is used for do not assume its beadbi. Yes it is used my Maharaj to refer to God but understand the context the word is used in when refering to a Farladhari Nihang Singh. Nihang Singh traditions hold, going back to the time of Maharaj and Sahibzada Baba Fateh Singh Ji, that those Singhs who adorn the farla take the physical roop of Mahakaal. Maharaj asked someone to come before him dessed as Akaal, baba Fateh Singh Ji came dressed in the roop of a Nihang Singh and had a farla in his dumalla, upon seeing him maharaj replied Mahakaal. Calling a Farladhari Nihang Singh a Mahakaal does not mean they are God, it means they are the roop of Akaal - as stated by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Swaroop Singh Kaushish also mentions this in his book 'Guru Keeyan Sakhia' (1790) where he writes; Sahibzada Fateh Singh Ji, who was six years old also kept a 'Farla'. Guru Ji was greatly pleased and said, "Son! This 'Akali farla' and it will remain in the 'Panth' forever. This is the dress of Sri Maha-kaal... Gurpreet Singh can I ask what is debateable? Peace and love Akaaal

yes thats correct, hes now been officially recognised as a Mahakaal. A link to his katha can be found on http://www.ektaone.com/audio/index.php?q=s...amp;x=0&y=0 :TH:

Download Bhaji Sukha Singhs katha from ektaone. Its keertan with katha in english: very emotional and highly inspirational !!! :nihungsmile:

for more information on dasma granth watch this video, all in english... http://www.mrsikhnet.com/videos/wmv/Jaap%2...%20part%201.wmv

any one else got any opinions of the video or any comments to make?

Akaal. Humble benti for ppl to spreaad the word about this video. theres so much everyone can learn from it!! Peace and Love

Heres the link: http://www.mrsikhnet.com/videos/wmv/Jaap%2...%20part%201.wmv Akaaaaaal

This is a must must must must watch!!! It is highly informative, full of divine wisdom and entertaining. two singhs doing parchar on jaap sahib and on dasam guru granth sahib ji oops..... Heres the link: http://www.mrsikhnet.com/videos/wmv/Jaap%2...%20part%201.wmv Akaaaaaal

why not upload them to www.yousendit.com

http://www.ektaone.com/audio/index.php?q=s...s=pz041&x=0&y=0 this gut is amazing - the katha usually comes after the keertan. the talk on humility is highly recommended

Another good video on waking up in the morning: http://www.mrsikhnet.com/videos/wmv/Guruka...e%20Morning.wmv

http://www.mrsikhnet.com/videos/wmv/Guruka...ld%20Shower.wmv . A good video on the importance of cold ishnan in morning. for those who want to have a cold shower I reccomend what i think is the best way: go into the shower with a bit of himmat (strenght). Turn on the water and feel the coldness on ur skin, for the first few seconds its cold but after that its such a great feeling and u come out feeling chardi kala. :nihungsmile: During the winter it does become more difficuilt so just increase the temperature slightly. A cold ishnan will help u feel warmer in the winter. :T: The gursikha dee puratan maryada (historically based living of gursikhs) -(found in sundar gutka) states that you should have a cold ishnan but also adds ur head a bit and think of ur own circumstances. :e: Cold ishnans are chardi kala, give them a try, be strong

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fateh, Just one question, why does it concern you so much what the nihangs do??? Live your life, get close to your Guru and sing his praises. Is there need for posts like this?? Will cussing the nihangs get you closer to rabh??? will it help u achieve salvation???... Thought not. After all, ham nehee cha(n)gae buraa nehee koe || I am not good; no one is bad. Look at yourself, before looking at the "nihangs of today" Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fateh,

here is my personal favourite so far: http://download.yousendit.com/2BB3BD020D974CE2 - Funday 2005 So much emotion, so much pyar, dhan dhan guru gobind singh ji maharaj... ... Sajanra mera sajanra mere sajanra.

Gurfateh Pyareo, A friend of mine passed me links to some keertan with english explanation by nihang sukha singh. his katha is amazing and very inspiring and emotional at times, anyway feel the anand and bliss. Here are the links to two files.... http://download.yousendit.com/47862DDE5E45B96A - SS Camp Reunion http://download.yousendit.com/0704F8746B4F1068 - House program Lets get some productive discussion going on gurmat veechar rather than diverting our attention elsewhere Vahayguroo Ji Ka Khalsa! Vahayguroo ji Ki Fateh!