proudkaur21

2 minutes ago, proactive said:

The money grabbing reputation that Sikhs have got among non-Sikhs is due to Bhappas in the cities across India. The first time that the people at the Delhi borders got to know true Sikhi was when the farmers set up camps there. Before that the only Sikhs they had experience of were tight fisted Bhappas. There are over 600,000 Sikhs in Delhi, if a few thousand Sikh  farmers could  have such a deep and positive impact on the people around Delhi then why haven't 600,000 Sikhs in Delhi not had a positive impact on the non-Sikhs of Delhi. This is something to think about. It's all very well to give out langar in the Gurdwara but then when these non-Sikhs experience the Bhappas in their daily lives then any positive impact of the Gurdwara is quickly undone. 

also these delhi sikhs dont have much respect for sikhi and marry their daughters off to men of other religions. I have noticed this so many times. These rich delhi sikhs will marry their daughters off to rich hindus and stuff like this. They care about money more than religion. Its 100% true in punjabi cities as well. In the villages of punjab atleast most sikhs marry other sikhs.

23 minutes ago, Redoptics said:

Why would you follow what a Hindu or a Muslim did? I would suggest try and follow what your Guru did 

because sikhs sometimes try too hard to be good and it backfires for us. I dont care what is happening to others anymore. I'm just gonna stay quite.

8 minutes ago, proactive said:

Like Bhai Jagraj Singh used to say that the future of the Hindus in India lies in their embracing Sikhi. We made the mistake of helping the Christians in 1999 when they were being attacked across India by the Hinduvis and we can all see the result. As for Mother Theresa that evil witch took many Sikhs orphans from the 1984 genocide and turned them into Christians. We need to wise up, whatever the Hindutvis do to the Muslims and Christians is none of our business. We should only respond if they Hindutvis pose a danger to us which at this time they have not, apart from the farmers agitation which we have won there is not need for us to be either for or against the Hindutvis. We should not allow ourselves to be stupidly used as cannon fodder which is what the liberals in our community want us to be to protect the Muslims and the Christians. We need to be looking after our own and building up our strength by bringing as many Hindus into Sikhi as possible. North India will have a civil war within the next decade because the Hindutvis want to have a final showdown with the Muslims similar to the way we had our showdown with the Muslims in 1947. They have seen how the Chinese have snuffed out Islam in their country without the world not even batting an eyelid and they also think they can do the same based on the fact that the west needs India to counter China and as a business partner. 

biggest mistake was not sending all muslims to either pakistan and bangladesh. They literally carved out two islamic hell holes and still stayed back and now they pose a danger to us. All of them should have been sent packing.

7 minutes ago, proactive said:

Like Bhai Jagraj Singh used to say that the future of the Hindus in India lies in their embracing Sikhi. We made the mistake of helping the Christians in 1999 when they were being attacked across India by the Hinduvis and we can all see the result. As for Mother Theresa that evil witch took many Sikhs orphans from the 1984 genocide and turned them into Christians. We need to wise up, whatever the Hindutvis do to the Muslims and Christians is none of our business. We should only respond if they Hindutvis pose a danger to us which at this time they have not, apart from the farmers agitation which we have won there is not need for us to be either for or against the Hindutvis. We should not allow ourselves to be stupidly used as cannon fodder which is what the liberals in our community want us to be to protect the Muslims and the Christians. We need to be looking after our own and building up our strength by bringing as many Hindus into Sikhi as possible. North India will have a civil war within the next decade because the Hindutvis want to have a final showdown with the Muslims similar to the way we had our showdown with the Muslims in 1947. They have seen how the Chinese have snuffed out Islam in their country without the world not even batting an eyelid and they also think they can do the same based on the fact that the west needs India to counter China and as a business partner. 

all these so called catholic saints are mostly evil people who did bad things to non christians.

Just now, proactive said:

Muslims also took part in attacks on Sikhs in 1984. Salman Khurshid a top congress leader said that in 1984 Muslims were happy that the Sikhs were being attacked because of what the Sikhs had done to the Muslims in 1947. We should remember this the next the Muslims try the solidarity card with us when they get attacked. 

we should only support our own. We need to realize these people dont have morals like us .

9 minutes ago, proactive said:

You have fallen into the same mindset as the liberals that having less kids is helping the world against over-population. I gave the example of the Jews how their orthodox section will be the vast majority of Jews and the same can be the case with us. It is easier to stay linked to Sikhi through familial ties even when one may not keep the saroop. For converts you need at least two or three generation before the reversion back into the old faith is gone forever. Increasing the Sikh population in Punjab can be done in many way and my thoughts are that increasing the birth rate is the best way. 

1. Increasing the birth rate. If we are able to increase the birth rate and keep it at a rate higher than the non-Sikh population, this would mean that we can still have migration to the west and increase our population in the diaspora and thus increase our economic and political power there as well as retain a majority in Punjab. If roughly half of the Sikh couples who marry this year and every year in Punjab have 4 kids in the next 10 years, and the other half have 3 kids then in the next ten year because the non-Sikh population's birth rate is also declining, our majority would shoot up above 60% again. If this is kept up for the next 10 years after, then we become nearly 70%. After these 20 years even if new couples start to have just 2 kids then we will keep the 70% majority forever because the non-Sikh birth rate will be the same as ours. 

2. Conversion of non-Sikh Punjabis. This is a good option too because it decreases the non-Sikh percentage and increases the Sikh percentage. However the parchar needs to be focussed and tailored to fit the aims and aspirations of the groups that are being targeted. Unfortunately, our parchariks think that they can make a non-Sikh want to take Amrit by just giving them a katha for half an hour. We need to understand that it is well nigh impossible to have the whole Panth as Amritdhari because the whole process towards Amrit is so individual for many people. We need to resurrect the old process towards Sikhi which was always Sangat/Pangat -Sehajdhari-Keshdhari-Amritdhari. There are lakhs of non-Sikhs in Punjab who are already in the Sangat/Pangat group which means that they go to the Gurdwara regularly but are unable to progress to becoming Sehajdhari Sikh because we have essentially deleted that category over the last 50 years. So these people consider themselves as Hindus who frequent the Gurdwara rather than being Sehajdhari Sikhs who have a buy in into Sikhi. Once these people start to consider themselves as Sehajdhari Sikhs and thus on the path to being full Sikhs at sometime in the future then every year we will gain more and more Sikhs. 

3. In Migration of Sikhs from other states into Punjab. This is a situation where Sikligars from Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra and Andhra Pradesh are helped financially to migrate to Punjab to increase the Sikh majority. This tribe live in very small Tandas miles from anywhere and their lifestyle is becoming uneconomic. The Sikligars make locks, knives and sometimes even firearms. They have been persecuted by the police of their states for making firearms and the ones who make locks and knives have to spend many weeks away from their Tandas to towns across India to sell their wares. If non-Sikh bhaiyas can migrate to Punjab and many start to live there then why cannot we help these Sikh tribes to also migrate and live in Punjab. The British Sikh Council which works with these tribes have mooted this idea recently. Migration to Punjab is also cost effective because rather than build Gurdwaras and schools in their Tandas they will have access to Gurdwaras and schools in Punjab if they migrate there. 

I agree with you that our diaspora is becoming more powerful but where we disagree is that it is possible to have growth of both the diaspora and Sikhi in Punjab thus ensuring that we have a boost via migration from Punjab and a boost of the Sikh population by an increase in the birth rate if Sikh organisations start to promote larger families again. 

I am not jatt or from farming background so i hope this isnt ignorant but I've heard jatts get labour from up bihar to work on their fields and also alot of jatts who live abroad help these labourers with shelters and caring for their kids. Why cant we get these other sikh groups to help us with this and in this way we can bring them to punjab as well and help them settle and also nris can help invest in making these people secure. I mean I'm always donating anytime someone needs help with house building, education or anything in the villages in punjab. Why not bring people from your own religion rather than bringing these random people to work? Thats how israel works right? They brought in all those different ethnicities of jews to israel.

3 hours ago, SikhKosh said:

A small explanation on both of my claims:

1. Sikhs are becoming a minority in Punjab. We had only 57% Sikhs in Punjab in the 2011 census, if the figures are correctly collected in the next census we should now be in the 49-53% range, with an aging population. Last time I went to Doaba most houses in the villages were either locked or had only the old Sikh (grand)parents living alone. 

I disagree with Proactive: it is impossible to maintain a Sikh majority with the kind of mass exodus of Sikh youth that Punjab has seen in the last decade. It is not comparable to our migration in the last century where it was a more controlled one (except in the 80s 90s). Special steps need to be taken to ensure Punjab remains a Sikh majority, even if just in figures.
Having 4 children is not the only or best solution in an already overpopulated world, we need to do create Khalsa orphanages and do parchar to target the existing population. Can you imagine Muslims opening up orphanages in our East Punjab and getting our children to become Muslims? It is happening which is a shame.

2. Sikhs are becoming influental all over. We collectively need to come out of this victim complex and see the successes that we are booking all over the world. 

• The farm laws getting repealed is a major feat for our qaum. The farmers protest, while not entirely a Sikh movement (with help of leftist parties & other north Indian farmers), it had a major Sikh presence, spirit and got international coverage only because of the Sikh community. This is a major blow to Modi and the first time he has backed down on such a big law. Credit goes to the Sikhs.
• Barring Jaggi's case, where he himself walked into the devil's mouth, we have managed to counter and stop the govt of India in the extradition of Parmjit Singh Pamma in Portugal, half the deportation of three British Sikh youth in the Rulda Sinh case, gotten Vishal Jood deported and so on. It is not a small feat to counter a power like India.
• The Jewish success story is getting outdated. Sikhs are quickly rising all over the world - both on an individual level like SPS Oberoi in the Arab countries, the Rais in Eastern Africa, and the many Sikh multi millionaires and billionaires in the US, Canada and UK. On a collective level we are prosperous everywhere: we have the highest number of house ownership in the UK, higher than even the Jews. Half of the Sikhs in the UK have a second home in the UK. Sikhs in India are one of the wealthiest communities (only behind the Jains and perhaps Parsis).
• Many, including Sindhi Hindus, are embracing Sikhi partly due to our growing influence and networking. See the following comment by the head of Pak Hindu Council himself:
   
• I rest my case. Sikhs are going to become a minority in Punjab in the coming decade but will become even more influental world wide. Lets see how we manage to balance it out and maintain our grip on East Punjab.

But hindus from punjab are moving to western countries too. I know so many from the city i belong to who now live in canada , australia and what not. Its not just our lot.

4 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I know. We, the Paanth, is so amazing everyone wants to claim us and when they can't they want to kill us. The whole world has a fatal attraction I guess. What we get for being so pretty I guess. 

These people truly have a weird obsession with us.

6 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

Well done miss Bahrain

https://www.khaleejtimes.com/entertainment/miss-universe-2021-bahrain-beauty-opts-not-to-wear-bikini-for-swimsuit-round-wins-hearts

muslim women are always true to their ideals.

On 12/14/2021 at 8:13 AM, MisterrSingh said:

Absolutely, 100%.

It's this idea that has lead me to emphasise my belief that the Sikh religion is on its decline because it simply doesn't have the strength in depth (in terms of "time served" from a civilisational sense) to bat away other longer-established religions and popular belief systems / ideologies.

Sikhs of today - and I say this objectively without any emotion - are mediocre to useless even those who've set themselves up as bearers of knowledge and scriptures. Most people reading this will immediately leap to the conclusion that to rectify this downward trend we need to be more religiously observant or stringent in our practices, but that's not the solution. I don't believe there is a solution in as much as "saving" anything. You've just got to let it happen and see where the pieces fall.

so we should just give up and not do anyhting? well i believe the weaker souls who in spite of getting the gift to be born into sikhi will wither away and only the strong sikhs will remain. Wouldnt it be better? Most of these weaker sikhs will intermarry and give up on sikhi. The stronger ones will continue to latch onto it. Wouldnt it just remove the weak ones from our panth.

5 hours ago, Premi5 said:

I've noticed male Sikhs generally know more than females. A case of parents neglecting their duty with girls ?

Punjabi females are the worst. Like i have seen their behavior here in university. They have no modesty. I dont think any religious man would want to marry like 95% of them. Even these girls that come from punjab here to study the stories i have heard about them! Like many end up getting pregnant and then the abortions that follow. Alot of the times they abandon the kids too when the child is born. And people think these people back home have more morals than us. How many muslim girls do this? And then these same girls will say that our punjabi culture is so misogynistic. Is that why you are naked in every second insta post and know nothing about your religion? Honestly its not self hate but id rather be friends with muslim girls or indian christian girls than these punjabi sikh girls. Even in my own school there used to be this sikh girl and she would always hang out with the popular goras and go to clubs and drink alcohol and do drugs and then would post about sikhi on her insta and she would even make fun of brown people in our school along with these goras. What a mess our people are.

6 hours ago, Premi5 said:

I don't completely agree they are useless, but the quantity of 'strong' Sikhs is low. And often the 'strong' ones are naiive or can be too friendly with other hostile communities. Ravi Singh Khalsa Aid is one example in my mind. 

I see your point now about Pakistani Muslims and how they are more conservative etc. Too many Punjabi Sikhs are too much the other way in pursuit of maya and see religion of much lower importance. 

Also, many Sikhs make fun of the ones that are in proper roop, calling them 'Giani' etc. This is common even more so in India. 

this is true omg in punjab they laugh at saabat soorat sikhs and call them giani and think they are backwards. Mona sikhs and hindu do this together. I have myself experienced this.

Can you believe any Muslim would laugh at their own religious people with sikhs and joke about them? No. THIS IS HOW FAR WE HAVE FALLEN. Our people are very materialistic and only think about money.

3 minutes ago, S1ngh said:

Not really, it was majority Sikh dominated or all Punjabis as large number of army folks were alloted homes/lots there in 70/80's. 

We talk about casteism problem but i think the bigger issue of our kaum is status-ism (Gift left for punjabis by british raj).

wait i saw somewhere chandigarh has like 78% hindu pop?

53 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Their only izzat is money.

We shouldnt celebrate these people. Their religion is money and all they do is promote western hegemony over us by promoting things related to west. Dont they want us to loose our culture so they can all rule over the world? Without culture a group of people are nothing and what is promoted in the west? Assimilation and giving up of one's culture.

2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I've even heard worse, like in C'garh, there are guys who are essentially giglos and sleep with married women who pay them for it......I think they call them tempos or something?

Everyone stay mentally tough though, sometimes things get REALLY shitty just before they improve. Like they say, it's the darkest just before the sun rises.   

 

isnt chandigarh like hindu majority though lol?

32 minutes ago, Kau89r8 said:

Bare in mind the population of Panjabi Hindus, and Christians they will NEVER vote in favour Sikh independent state even if there was a vote without any issue in Panjab.. Best we either learn to swim with sharks or against the sharks...We need to learn to sit back and do our dealings quietly like Gujjis ..this mindset  to die and fight for our rights no matter what cost has come at fair share of bloodshed and loss for Sikh panth..

Honestly im hoping for china to invade india soon lol.

7 minutes ago, Kau89r8 said:

@proudkaur21 @dallysingh101 @Premi5 @proactive @MisterrSingh

Nothing surprise me anymore about the pooooooojabiiiiss, the people with an ego higher than mount Everest.

1 minute ago, Kau89r8 said:

We end up dying either borders or ready to die for the panth  = win for india less Sikh population (As if the gov will give back regardless if we have panthic leader in Panjab) , whilst gujjis, arabs, brahmins are taking over Panjab , investing economically from within India and Outside 

We haven't learnt our lesson and have stubborn leaders who cant think outside their narrow framework

 

the worst is the people dying for panth means we have less panthic people. The only ones dying and getting jailed for sikhi are the panthic people not these rich so called city sikhs who live to end sikhi in their families by trying to assimilate in the cities because they think sikhi is backward. Its so sad. Dont see any solution. Seems like we are stuck from everywhere. Do you go back to punjab form a party for your people but no these so called people will not vote for religion they will vote for who can give them daru. Hate it man. See no solution. The increasing globalisation and westernisation is so damaging to spirituality.