5aaban

On 2/2/2022 at 7:47 AM, Premi5 said:

Where would you stay ? Pind ? Shehar ?

@dallysingh101 do you know anyone from UK who has gone as an adult and stayed in India permanently through choice ?

How long have you stayed for one time, if that's okay to ask ? And how much of your adult life ?

What do your immediate family think ?

How many Hindu Panjabis have you met in Aus ?

This seems a little like that Geeta Aulakh who was in the news. 

And, if I can ask how do you find HP and Sikh Panjabis get on in your experience? I have not met that many, and we don;t have any family friends who are? I mean normal, not the wealthy rich business types you've met here. 

The few I've met range from feeling they are Hindu but Sikhs and Hindus are very similar/the same, to those who feel distinct as Hindus and see Hindus and Sikhs separately. And, I think the men are more likely to be close/friends with Sikh men here than the women are

@Punjabiwolves is someone I like who posts here from time to time. 

How come bro ?!!

What don't you like about it ? It's a big country, and there are inter-state differences like in the US, but the culture seems more homogenous

Pind 

Stayed for nearly a year at once and do go back frequently. 

I've only met a few Hindu Panjabis and they could speak Panjabi (there are many more Sikh Panjabis than Hindu or Muslim ones here) 

HP's and Sikhs get along fine. 

On 2/2/2022 at 7:28 AM, Premi5 said:

some light relief, never seen anyone at Supermarket before like this but maybe it happens...

 

Jingle Bell Bhangra is better  

Just now, Kau89r8 said:

Ya she is converted..eid pics...they also met whilst doing bhangra at uni together 

Chaloo

This is united Punjab brings us...alot of Poonjabi Sikhs dream about it ...

Consequences of doing Bhangra right there...

On 2/1/2022 at 9:30 PM, proactive said:

The British generally classified all non-Muslims as Hindus especially in the early days of the annexation of Punjab. The 1855 Census of Punjab did not even count Sikhs and just Hindus and Muslims, the same was true of the 1868 Census apart from the Majha area where they counted Sikh numbers as well. In all the other areas Sikhs were not counted. This is why in the 1881 census when they first counted castes, they counted the non-Muslims and non-Sikh Jats as Hindus. Just because the British counted these Jats as Hindus does not mean they were Hindus. 

One just needs to look in the villages of Punjab, how many Mandirs are there in our villages? If there is a Mandir then either it is a small Mandir as part of a family residence of a Brahmin or Hindu Khatri family. According to the British censuses,  Ludhiana district up to 1881 had almost equal numbers of of Sikh and Hindu Jats. If these non-Sikh Jats were really Hindus then you would see hundreds if not thousands of Mandirs in the villages of Punjab and yet very few exist. This is because these Jats were followers of either tribal Jathera worship or were Sakhi Sarwaria followers or a combination of both. I don't know about Majha or Doaba as I have not spent any time there but all over Malwa every village either has dozens of Marhiya - small memorials to ancestors in which lamps are lit or has an old Dera of a Pir. 

Historically whenever a Jat chaudhry achieved some high position or managed to become independent and establish his rule then in order to gain acceptance in Hindu society he would build a Mandir in his area, this was especially true of the areas outside of Sikh influence such as Haryana and west UP. The Mandirs in their villages are either built by their chiefs after they established their rule and wanted acceptance in Hindu society or date to the time of them coming under the influence of the Arya Samaj or other Hindu reformists movements. 

 

What about Hindu Jats who have the same last names as Sikh Jats? 

Yuzvendra Chahal, a Hindu Jat 

Simarpreet Kaur Chahal, a Jat Sikh actress 

On religion of Jats in 1901 and 1931 (source Instagram) 

The late colonial period in British Punjab witnessed the collapse of the Hindu Jat population. In 1901 Hindus were 32% of all Jats, by 1931 that figure was 16%. To fully appreciate this phenomenon however, we need more detailed analysis.
Consider first the Majha Jats. (pic 1&2)
While the Muslim Jat population held steady, nearly all the Hindu Jats had returned themselves as Sikhs by 1931. A similar trend is seen in the Doab region of Punjab. (Pic 3&4)
Also the Malwa-Puadh region, which was already heavily Sikh in 1901, but became even more so by 1931, at the expense of the Hindu population. (Pic 5&6)
This phenomenon however seems to be largely restricted to punjabi speaking areas. A sample of Jats from hindi speaking areas of Punjab (present day Haryana) show little religious change from 1901-1931, as Hindus remained above 90%. (Pic 7&8)
Note: The Malwa-Puadh samples are restricted to Ferozepur, Ludhiana, Malerkotla, and Faridabad, as the rest of the region was split by princely states that also encompassed parts of Haryana, so they were left out to avoid polluting the sample.

Majha

Doab 

Malwa-Puadh 

On 2/1/2022 at 7:21 PM, Premi5 said:

I don't think so in the UK. Here the community is mostly second, third and fourth gen.

In Aus/NZ I think the population is mostly 1st and 2nd gen, and even '2nd gen' were in many cases brought up in Panjab. 

Canada and US are newer populations as well. 

I think because you have a bigger country and warmer climate in Aus/NZ, the Panjabi people might be more inclined that way, here in UK we have 5-6 months of bad weather so people don't go out much.

If anything, I think a lot of the newer immigrants from what I see in UK, and news reports in Aus are more into Sikhi and want to teach children Panjabi, Gatka and other Sikhi rather than necessarily Panjabi culture

Yeah, I know some people wanting to learn Gatka in Aus too and some did it when they were for a brief period of time. 

Bhangra competitions are a big thing in Canada and USA. They have a lot Bhangra societies in Universities which perform at weddings and events too. Many teams from the UK and other countries (including a few from Aus/NZ) go and compete in these.They have one of the biggest Bhangra "companies" called Bhangra Empire based in California who run kids classes alongside. 

Surprisingly, Bhangra Empire is run by a Pakistani-Panjabi (Omer Mirza, head & choregrapher) and a mixed Panjabi woman (Michelle Puneet Mirza, who has a Panjabi father) 

Their Bhangra dancers also come from diverse backgrounds (many Muslims and Hindus). 

Dancers:
Afsheen Islam, Ajay Sohmshetty, Akshay Mehta, Alam Pannu, Amrit Dhorka, Anita Kapyur, Arsh Bhatti, Basila Nathan, Charaag Bhasin, Chirag Yadav, Danish Anwar, Fateh Singh, Gagan Handa, Gurleen Parmar, Gurparsad Thind, Jackie Thind, Jaclyn Phi, Jashan Mahal, Karanvir Singh, Kiren Singh, Komal Mehta, Manish Badwal, Maria Joseph, Mariya Vicahttu, Meenu Thind, Meera Suresh, Navneet Chagger, Neha Shekhar, Osman Mirza, Payal Makhijani, Pinder Deol, Pooja Kale, Preet Kaur, Rani Tiruveedhula, Rucha Shrotriya, Sabina Chaudhuri, Saloni Madaan, Sameer Kausar, Sangeeta Jayakar, Sarah Ghuman, Shamn Singh, Shandeep Ahdi, Shelley Bhatia, Simi Johal, Sumanyu Maingi, Tanjeev Thandi, Vibin Kundukulam, Vijay Singh

Some alternatives of connecting with Panjabi culture that don't involve Bhangra 

• Learning to read, write and speak Panjabi properly
• Horse riding 
• Learning traditional Panjabi embroidery (for females)
• Reading Panjabi poetry and literature 
• Learning about the social history of Panjab 
• Travelling to Panjab, visiting historical monuments and cultural museums  
• Learning to make Panjabi food 

On 2/1/2022 at 7:39 AM, dallysingh101 said:

That thread was 10 years ago. A lot of things have changed since then (in the UK at least). We know more about the link between bhangra culture and grooming. We know more about how others perceive the prancing about too.  As far as I'm concerned, blokes shouldn't be doing it publically on stages, dressed like gandus either, let alone women or girls. 

And it's now promoted everywhere, including like this in Amritsar:

That waistcoat thing IS Panjabi. All the pak-pPanjabi boys used to come back with them when they went back home when I was a kid. They had little mirrors on them as well.  This thing is like a virus that spreads. I think UK is waking up a bit - Canada and other places probably not. Hell they got their pres doing it ffs!

 

Pakistani Panjabi Bhangra dresses aren't too different either but without the crazy  colours.  

On 2/1/2022 at 7:15 AM, dallysingh101 said:

Us putting our own womenfolk on stages to prance about like professional kunjrees for all to behold is a bad move. Teaches them to be exhibitionists and sends a message to other more conservative communities about us. Canada is appalling in this respect. 

I think that costume was at some point traditional jut attire though. It's ubiquitous now.  Wherever I see something Panjabi, there are some twats dressed like that in the background. 

 

I think boys might take to horse-riding, archery and other sports as well. Gymnastics maybe? Javelin. 

 Bhangra seems to be getting popular, I saw a team with some white people and a Pakistani Panjabi girl. 

That Kurta-Chadara dress is a rural male attire worn in Panjab by ALL communities (old men wear it nowadays). It was easy to wear and make back in the days but it's not colourful like Bhangra dancers make it. Also the accessories they wear on their arms aren't normal.

On 1/31/2022 at 6:56 PM, dallysingh101 said:

Which country are you in now? Have you met anyone else whose done what you're saying? 

I'm comfortable with the lifestyle. 

This is just my take on this 

There's an increasing number of Panjabis in western countries learning Bhangra professionally, making Bhangra societies in universities and holding grand Bhangra competitions. Although Bhangra is a hybrid dance done by males with modern hip-hop moves, women are also seen in these competitions & performances.

Some parents in the west are encouraging their children to learn Bhangra from these academies. The reason they give for joining is Bhangra connects them with Panjabi culture and they feel "proud" seeing their children on stage. I don't think Bhangra is helping any western Panjabi stay connected with Panjabi culture. Dancing like this on public stages was frowned by most Panjabi elders. 

It's sad to see Panjabi culture has been reduced down to jumping on stage. The bright crazy patterned uniform Bhangra dancers wear also looks very silly, no Panjabi in the past dressed like that. I've met some Bhangra-doing Panjabis in the west who can't read Panjabi, speak it properly or know anything about Panjab's situation and history. I don't know why so many Panjabi parents hold this misconception that putting children in Bhangra will connect them with culture and turn them into the next Vir Singh or Bulleh Shah.