Khalistani Singh

Veer, your thoughts are very respecting, but please do not say the thoughts of the Khalsa were started by Socrates or before Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time. These instances occured on totally different sides of the hemisphere. About your idea of reincarnation, the gurus were reincarnated themselves. In fact there are stories that mention Guru Gobind Singh Ji being reincarnated. In addition, the story of the Suleman ghost. The human soul goes thru 81 billion reincarnations to reach the human life form, it is by God we are given the human life form. And if we do sewa, and live by the gurus principles, we shall reach sachkhand. I think your translation is true to some extent, but veer please do not give the credit of sikhi to others. Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni.

Sangat ji, we are blaming the wrong person. We hardly complain about our PUNJAB government and the SGPC, and the Akalis action. They are at fault, for the drugs and the hindu influences in punjab, all of our current "SIKH" leaders are all corrupt individuals that just seek PAISA (money). It is about time we start to protest to those who are truly responsible. Don't expect Manmohan Singh come into power, and help rebuild Punjab. He has to take care of the country as a whole. The only reason you should hate him, is if he does something bad against Sikhs. Which I highly doubt. This man is great, if he remains a good leader. He's surely educated (Oxford & Cambridge), and is the man behind India's economy. The best thing we can expect, is for him to boost the Sikh Identity, and let the world know who Sikhs are. You have to be sensible when it comes to things. Not just judge on assumptions. The only reason, I could be against this is that Hindus will once again say, "we're brothers." However, most hindus are <Edited> to see a Singh, to rule HINDUstan. And 1984 will never be justified, even when Manmohan Singh becomes President. This is a good thing for Sikhs as a whole. He will be known internationally, and Sikhs will be also. The ohm symbol could've have been a gift from one of his political friends, he associates with Hindus, what do you expect? He has to play "politics." All I know, is that I won't judge the guy, and that he is a good thing for sure, as whole for Sikhs globally.

Sonia Gandhi has declined to becom the next PM of India due to her Italian origin. She has pointed out Manmohan Singh. Manmohan Singh is a well respected, well-educated Sikh Economist. He follows rehat well, and isn't a corrupt leader. One thing for sure, this will help Sikhs out internationally. However, will give hindus the right to difuse the problems of 1984, and say once again "SIKHS & HINDUS are BROTHERS!" Article: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040518/main9.htm Sonia decides not to become PM, Manmohan may New Delhi, May 18 Sonia Gandhi today decided not to become Prime Minister and indications are that Dr Manmohan Singh could head the new multi-party coalition government. The dramatic development over the new government formation took place in the afternoon when Ms Sonia Gandhi, who had met the President, Dr A. P. J. Abdul Kalam, in the morning and was to meet him again tomorrow, dispatched party seniors to leaders of allied parties, conveying her decision not to take up the top post. The General Body of the Congress Parliament Party, which had elected her as leader of the CPP on Saturday, had been convened at 6.30 pm, apparently to elect a new leader, though officially the purpose of the meeting has not been disclosed. The allies were also told that her "decision was final" and that they should not insist upon her becoming Prime Minister. Her reluctance to take up the post was on account of her "deep hurt" caused by the Sangh Parivar campaign against her on her foreign origins. Mr Manmohan Singh, widely tipped to become the Prime Minster if Ms Gandhi sticks to the decision, himself met Dravida Munatra Kazhgam (DMK) chief M. Karunanidhi to convey her decision. Along with Mr Arjun Singh and Mr Ghulam Nabi Azad, Mr Manmohan Singh also met CPI (M) leader Harkishen Singh Surjeet and told them of Ms Gandhi's decision. Mr K. Natwar Singh and Mr M. L. Fotedar met Ram Vilas Paswan, while Nationalist Congress Party (NCP) leader Sharad Pawar was told of this decision by other leaders. The allies have assured the Congress leaders that they would fully back any leader of the Congress party in the formation of the new government, while they would prefer it to be Ms Gandhi. Mr Amar Singh of the Samajwadi Party told reporters that his party had left to Mr Surjeet the decision on who should become the Prime Minister. He said the SP wanted formation of a secular government at the Centre led by Congress and in this regard had extended "suo motu support" to the coalition led by the party. — PTI

Lol, about the destiny, we all have different interpretations...I can go on blahin' about my point of view, but whatever works for anyone. Sikhi is open to free interpretation, and from what I've been reading on most forums, its pretty sad. I think its actually time we move forward instead of just arguing over BS or the BS other people believe in... Like in most posts, most people just argue, and tend to believe in what they believe... WHERE's the brotherhood veerjiz? KHALISTAN!

I was just reading the posts on the Indian election, and Babbar Khalsa. Sonia Gandhi is coming into power not cause of the Guru's hukam, nor was it Guru's hukam for 1984 to occur. These things happened cause they did, not cause the Guru control's our destiny. Wake up people, how the hell are you going to think that the freedom movement is alive. Cause that a few so called Khalistaniz escaped? Do you recall what happened in 1984? There were thousands of Khalistaniz like this, and we were all portrayed as terrorists, so how are a couple of thousand at the most going to create Khalistan, and out match the Indian Army, and there Tanks? Right, fighting with AK 47's just the right way. It's called common sense, which none of us have. We are too lazy, we expect others to do things for us. These Singhs that escape jail, want peace and their lives back, cause after a while, no one gave a <admin-profanity filter activated> about them, and everyone carried on their lives. If anything, what we should learn from 1984 is that, we as Sikhs need to get into politics and play the game. Not just expect for a couple of guys to pick up AK 47's shoot down a couple of leaders, and have the world portray us as Terrorists. As I've grown, Khalistan has become a less of reality for me, but has paved the connection with me and Sikhi... Khalistan the reality- 1. A load of Sikhs that are not even close to becoming Khalsa, support Khalistan. (Example: Me, in 9th grade, KHALISTAN KHALISTAN KHALISTAN!!! - when I knew one thing less about Sikhi). 2. Unless, we as Sikhs start to think with sense, and act ually get up as a community as a whole, n launch a world-wide organization, nothing will happen. 3. When Khalistan becomes established, there are too many corrupt leaders. 4. The only possible way, if all the other minorities, like the Dalits, Christians, Tamils, Jews that have suffered atrocities in India, step up, India will collapse as Russia. hmm, maybe we should start working with other nationalities that also dis-like India for their fake, "World's Largest Democracy" identity.... The best advice I can offer, is become or work your way towards becoming Khalsa. The Khalsay who died, wanted the Khalsa panth to rise in the future. I think it certaintly has done that, tons of "monay" kept their hair as a result of what happened in 1984. As for Sonia Gandhi, or BJP, doesn't make any difference, our punjab government is the same. Badal, blah blah, whoeva, even the SGPC don't even do anything to tighten and strengthen the Khalsa Panth... Till we get a leader whose not money-hungry, or establish worldwide unity, Khalistan will remain just a mere myth... Just compare Jews and Sikhs, we went thru the same things, and Jews are less in population, but are known internationally. If you expect to sit on your bum, do paht all day, n pray for Khalistan, that's never going to happen. Paht is for shanti, how would it make sense if Bhindranwale and his men just sat in the Golden Temple complex, did paht while they were being attacked. They fought back, as our tenth master, Guru Gobind Singh Ji taught us to do. Khalistan, its your choice, not the Guru's. Bhul Chuk Maaf, -Gurjote Singh

Damdami Taskal is a teaching institution of teaching Sikhi... all of these quotes don't even come out of the SGGS. The current maryada Sikhs follow is the one by the SGPC... Hukka - Smoking tobacco, and all other intoxicants Hajamat - Removing hair Halalo - Eating meat Haram - Adultery and <admin-profanity filter activated> relationships outside of marriage Smoking tobacco? where does it say touching? "Listen to the discipline of the Gursikh whom relinquishes the accompaniment of tobacco, avoiding bodily contact with tobacco as he/she knows that he/she is better off dead than having to touch tobacco." Where does this quote come from? Everyone has their own interperation of Sikhi, I just simply believe touching isn't going to make me a "bad" Sikh... I go to New York City, people smoke all around, i'm inhaling 2nd-hand smoke, oh no does the Guru think I'm doing this intentionally? Should I take myself away from society and just walk around with some taliban dresscode? We inhale intoxciants from pollution? Should we not be allowed to breathe now? Inhaling is worse than touching, so maybe I shoudln't even breathe. If you do things intentionally, yeah, but like if you remove a cigarette off your lawn, thats toally something else. Everything in this world is harmful, everything contains bacteria. Our body needs bacteria in order to survive. Without any bacteria, humans would not even exist. Be practical. How does touching make one good or bad? Implementing action and living by truth determines where one is pure or not. WJKK WJKF, Gurjote

What the hell are we arguing about? Since when did Sikhism become Hinduism? Sikhi is once again, the most practical, rational, sensible, on the face of this planet. We know our innerselves, and so does the guru, so if we "TOUCH" something, do we become "poisioned." Where's the sense in that? And since when do we start praising others, there are a whole lot of Sants that do bad things. Everyone is on the same equal playing field in Sikhi, no one is higher. Hence, caste system abolished. Anyone is allowed to do paht, and come into the guru's house of worship. Even those poor, animals, etc. If your going to refer to Sants, where in Sikhi does it say to follow and praise a Sant. Thats the problem in Vancouver, I have thousnads of stupid cousins that crack on others that follow Sants, and they just take the money. A friend of mine went to India, and the Giani there skipped a whole bunch of pages during the Akhand Paht, while listening to music thru headphones... The Guru's themselves declined to praise them. They told don't look at us, look at the truth, look at God. Guru Gobind showed this, by taking amrit, from the panj pyaray. I'm not saying that all gianis here are bad, but sometimes having common sense works more effectively. So, if your trying to help out a fellow friend who smokes, you shouldn't associate with him, since he smokes? I don't see anywhere where the gurus philosophy will agree with that. Yes, keep yourself clean, but be practical. Touching things, isn't going to make your inner soul dirty. Id rather appear dirty, then be filled with dirt in mind.< br> I don't see where simply touching, makes you "unclean." Yeah, wash your hands outta respect, but not to clean your "dirtyness." Whats with the rule of washing your hands 5 times? sounds like hinduism to me...why 5 times? superstitions... Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni, WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH! -Gurjote Singh

Any input here please?

WJKK WJKF, Why are we so reluctant to take Amrit? I've been contemplating whether or not to take it, and I come accross minor excuses. "I'm not good enough," or "I won't be able to get up in the morning to do paht." Well if you question yourself if your not good enough, you are cause you care to be a good amritdhari. I being a Sikh, can never leave the Sikh path of life. It's been 20 yrs since the 1984 attack, and 400 yrs when the SGGS was installed at Darbar Sahib in Amritsar. If we Sikhs can't even take an hour or more out of our life to read gurbani and do paht, that is pretty lame and pathetic. All of those who died for the panth, would want to see the Sikh Panth grow and flourish. The Panj Pyaray took Amrit, not even knowing what they were getting into. They had total love for the guru. And I'm sure all of us Kesdharis here have the same exact love. Taking Amrit, is being devoted, committed to Sikhi. I don't see one negative effect of taking Amrit. Not to say that I'm the most completely best person in this world, but I'm sure many of us stay away from the 5 evils- Kam, Krod, Lobh, Moh and Hankar. All we would have to do is adjust our attitude, and always stay positive in the Guru's light. We tend to portray being Khalsa as something out of the task, becoming Khalsa is becoming PURE, is that so hard? Maybe in this society. Maharaj Guru Gobind Singh Ji molded the Sikhs into Singhs and Kaurs and gave mankind universal brotherhood. I have changed so much as I've read more about Sikhi. Being a pro, bruah, ego "JATT MUNDA", to seeing the wisdom of the Gurus. Everything in our life can be taken away, but not our Sikhi. Sikhi teaches the most PRACTICAL, RATIONAL ways of living. "Sir Jave Ta Jave, Meri Sikhi Sidhak Na Jave." Lastly, I'm the biggest hypocrite, I keep the name "Khalistani Singh." Yet not even Khalsa. I think its about time that we Sikhs, that who have not taken Amrit yet, step up. The only thing that bothers me is that will it be okay just to "listen to do paht" in the mornings since I cannot read Gurmukhi. But hmm I still won't have a clue what I'm listening to? But over the course years I will pick up? And what are other MANDATORY THINGS one will have to do to become AMRITDHARI? BHUL CHUK MAAF, WJKK WJKF!

Thanks!!!

http://www.herald-sun.com/orange/10-466062.html

Keepin rehat is not a big deal for me. I know I can, at least sacrific time out of my daily life to do paht. Hmm do my personal beliefs make any sense, and should I be allowed to take amrit? :T: hmm I'm more of one of those "militarized" sikhs back in the day that would take amrit to be part of the Khalsa. Like I'll follow the rehat hardcore, and everything else, just my sorta "Athiest" view is that accepetable? And I do notice when I do paht, my athiest views seems to vanish. Chardi Kala, Gurjote

Yeah, I feel just like how Hareet is. When I was young, I use to believe in God, parents influence. Like I use to pray for others etc, and shanti, n simple happiness. But as I got older, I dunno. I do believe in a higher force or maybe being that doesn't "control us". Cause God has installed free will into man. I find gurbani as metaphors. But the thing is, when I questioned God greatly, a month ago, I felt exhausted tired, useless. But then I read in the SGGS, that god is internal, the foolish manmukh will not find the true lord externally. And also Guru Nanak stated, those who ponder God's name will never achieve peace. I grew my hair out a year ago. Sikhi has always been with me. I'm ready to die for khalsa, and give my whole heart life to it. The thing is, can we interpet God differently? Cause doing paht doesn't give us anything but shanti, and if we ask for things, God never answers. I will do paht for shanti. I got confused about the purpose of religion. So many etc, but they all lead to the same way. And eventually, if you denouce your religion, where will you have to go? Every man needs faith. Therefore I cannot become a total reject of Sikhi and jus abolish it, cause Sikhi is my life. Hence, is it okay to take amrit? Yet still be willing to devote your life to the Khalsa Panth? "SIRH JAWE TA JAWE, MERA SIKH SIDHAK NA JAWE" Bhul Chuk Maaf, please let me know ASAP VASAIKHI IS AROUND THE CORNER... WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH -GURJOTE SINGH

I'll be there veer.

Yeah, its easy to go wrong. Its just that in every religion or culture, most kids actually like to attain the "badboy rep"...For instance, hip hop music promotes, sex, drugs, partying, drinking, etc. Only till' now only a few positive rappers like Talib Kweli have started to gain recongnition. In similar, our Bhangra songs are all about meeting up with girls, drinking, having EXCESSIVE PRIDE in our PUNJABINESS, and etc. However, I do think western Sikhs are in better position. Most youth Hindus my age, don't even no a clue about there religion and most of them laugh at their faith. Have you ever seen a hardcore Hindu that's into its faith walking around? No, they are more lost than Sikhs. Muslims, there in similar positions as the Sikhs. There are hardcore muslims, then pretty dumb muslims. What's my conclusion? You will see Sikhi on the rise, Hinduism on the decline, and Islam staying put where it is. Chardi Kala, Gurjote Singh

Sikhnet is a funny site. I use to read it's news and discussions everyday. However, now I turned to Sikhawareness and SikhSangat, and found more rational answers. Although, Sikhnet is a great site, especially its matrimonial service, and information about Sikhi, shabads, and International Sikh News, it has some of the stupidest moderators. For example, I use to read answers from the YOUTH & QUESTION FORUM, and they gave the most ridiculious responses. Most kids had problems with depression, or other things that normal adolescents go thru. And the responses from the moderators go something about these lines: "Place your index finger to your thumb, press it slightly and relax in the name of Waheguru and repeat these words everytime you touch ur index finger with another- Sa with your index, Ra with your middle finger, and so on... I laughed at their answers. They make religion seem so mythical. Kids that need help don't need bs responses like these. Or even some post replies as "GO PRAY TO GOD"...how will a simple kid that doesn't know anything about Sikhi, know how to pray God. Most teens are rational thinkers, and sometimes these questions can be answered in simple terms, not in some outrageous terms. Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni, Gurjote Singh

The whole Jatt "caste" was actually misls too. Every last name among "Jatts" is a misl. I'm a Dhaliwal and I did research, and we were a misl as well. Baghel Singh Dhaliwal... http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/warri...ors/baghel.html http://allaboutsikhs.com/warriors/baghel.htm you can go crazy about your own misl...go to www.jattworld.com, caste or misl...still putting divisions, all these misls fought for the KHALSA, not for there caste/misl. Guru Kirpa, Gurjote Singh

Yes, thats very true. But ugh what did Sikhs do after 84? Make noise, go crazy, and then a couple of months just shut up and relaxed. I know many Sikhs in the New York area, I have videos during the attack and Sikh reacations in the NYC area, all those parents were shouting Khalistan Zindabad, now there children are marrying who knows what. Those parents dont even carry Sikhi anymore. And others, like my parents, "ah man, the whole movement was corrupt, forget about it." My dad use to go out and like protest, now hes just sitting here cause all the leaders of the Khalistani movement were straight up liars. But yeah, its pretty sad.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/sou...-home-headlines It seems these type of instances sadly only make people aware of Sikhs. http://cbsnewyork.com/njnews/NJ--SikhsAssa...urces_news_html This occured last yr also, when a gas station employee in NJ stated that he was robbed and the attackers cut his hair...its like come on, who walks around with scissors ready to cut someones hair during a robbery attempt? If you want to cut your hair thats fine, but please don't make up stories. After this incident, the Sikh sangat in northern New Jersey (specifically Glen Rock), are trying to build communication with there children. However, I still find it funny how Sikhs are still not well known and we are one of the world's largest religion, AHEAD OF JEWS. Yet, Jews are still known globally, maybe after Nazi Germany. But how many are well aware of the 1984 attack none? Whose to blame? OUR LEADERSHIP? Yes, the Jews have their own country, and Jews everywhere are united. I believe we need to do something about our leadership in India? What do they do? Nothing at all, just take in money and become puppets for the Indian Government. It's about time that western Sikhs start taking action and flourish the panth. We have the ability to unite, but yet we just fight and build new gurudwaras. Its sad how the United States Gurudwaras can't even have a national meeting or conference. I dont know if Canada, or England does or any other countries. But I believe, at least once a year, Sikhs leader should hold some global meeting to discuss matters of Sikhi. Chardi Kala, Gurjote Singh

Yep, I just skimemd thru Bhagat Singh's bakwas on allaboutsikhs.com, it's pretty funny, cause I can see where his nonsense derives from. I strongly agree with what you said Hareet...Sikhism is a religion that believes in acting, doing sewa, etc etc, not just sitting on your "bum" and doing paht all day. I do believe in a creator, but from my perspective on doing paht, is not for to like "PRAY TO GOD," but for rather bringing us peace, and humility. Guru Gobind Singh Ji, made Sikhs into solid beings who will fight for whats right. I certainly think, Bhagat Singh had no idea what he was talking about. Sikhi has so many perspectives, thats why I love it. There's no strict way of following things, its your very own interpertation. And usually, we refer to the Guru's teachings more than God's. Sikhi allows "athiest-minded" folks to be part of the panth, sad to know Bhagat Singh's ego didn't allow himself to see the Light. Chardi Kala, Gurjote Singh Here are the links by the way: http://allaboutsikhs.com/martyrs/martyrbhagat4.htm http://allaboutsikhs.com/martyrs/martyrbhagat7.htm

Yep, Namdharis don't believe in the SGGS and started guruship after Guru Gobind Singh Ji, ignoring the guruship of the Granth Sahib. Guru Gobind Singh Ji, strictly stated that all my followers should only take the SGGS as its his/her next living Guru. However, the Namdhari religion hasn't been hijacked by the Indian Government, unlike the Nirinkaris, etc. It's been there for a while, and hasn't just risen up like the Radhasoamis. They were also good fighters during the British. I visited some Namdhari gurudwaras in India, they all wear white, and it is very similar to a Gurudwara. My mom's family has Namdhari history, my Nanaji was a Namdhari, but I guess he really wasn't since he followed Sikhism and accepted the SGGS as a Guru. And my whole mom's side now follows Sikhi, and never heard of them going to Namdhari temples. So are they similar yes? But are they the same? NO. www.Namdhari.org Chari Kala, Gurjote Singh

Well here again, I'd prolly go with my athiest view. Repeating Shabads, doing paht gives us Shanti, God does not hand anything over to us. Praying is suppose make us stronger mentally, and give us the power to achieve things. But by singing the praises of the lord, your simply aren't going to get it cause "God" is going to answer your prayers. I read in the SGGS, something according to these lines, "The lord lies within thyself, only the self willed manmukh looks for the lord externally." The creator has granted us this 6th sense, whether we use it or not to our advantage is our choice. Guru Kirpa, Gurjote Singh

Ah I just wrote a whole bunch, but hmm somehow I pressed a wrong button on this laptop and ahh everything got erased. Yeah by the way I hate laptops. Anyways, to make a long story short... Most punjabis love to claim that we were such great freedom fighters etc. I did too, especially after I saw Shaheed Udham Singh. Then watching Shaheed Bhagat Singh. I perferred Shaheed Udham Singh because it was more punjabi desi ya know lol..anyways its funn how we claim Bhagat Singh be "Sikh." Udham Singh, yeah he practiced Sikhi and did paht even though he became sehajdhari since he had to do undercover things and so on. But I really don't get that whole sort, cause he was operating in India, and you can definitely tell whose WHITE and whose INDIAN. And same thing in England, there were Singhs there at that time, and I'm sure that the British guy portrayed in the movie knew he was hiring a Sikh, let alone an Indian. So hmm yeah, anyways yeah Udham Singh was still practicing Sikhi though, so hes off the hook. Shaheed Bhagat Singh's mother was half hindu marathi. It is written that she was and I know this cause all the marathis I know always knew Bhagat Singh cause of this. Still not a good arguement correct? In his writings later on, Bhagat Singh claimed he was an athiest, and since when is a Sikh defined an athiest? (Even though, I sorta believe I'm an athiest Sikh since at times I do not believe in a God that controls us and etc, but I do live on the teachings of the Gurus, and in the SGGS it states the lord is within ourselves, so hence therefore I cannot be defined as an athiest...lol) However, Shaheed Bhagat Singh strictly stated that he was an athiest and didn't acknowledge the love for Sikhi. These men fought for the independence of India, not for the empowerment of Sikhi. Back then we all use to be united, muslims, sikhs, hindus fighting for the same goals. If we want to praise Udham Singh, just cause he's Singh, praise all the others that died for India. There are so many hindus that carry the last name Singh as well. But this isnt like a "Sikh" related celebration. It's a celebration for India, aka HINDIA, aka HINDUSTAN. Note, I'm not hating on these men, I'm just showing how I use to think, like most of you. Till a fellow friend showed me the story of Bhagat Singh. Anyways, whether we want to celebrate the Independence of India or not is our personal choice. I sure as hell know I would not, especially what occured after 1984. Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni, Gurjote Singh

Yeah, we finally need a movie like this. The best site dedicated to the Khalistani movement was BurningPunjab.com, banned in India. The above links are from that site, and the site also included graphical images. I always use to check this site out, thus cause of that site I have now become a SINGH. The site publisher, Sukhbir Singh Osan sadly passed away 2yrs ago. It is said that he died of an heart attack, but there is also an conspiracy that he was killed by the Indian Government. May his soul rest in his peace. But for others in Birmingham, England where this site was operated from, please try to get this site working again, it was the most complete site by far showing proof, pictures that could not even be argued with. By far the most well organized ever I seen. WJKK WJKKF, Gurjote Singh