AK-47

Good idea, and i think that discussion is under way at the moment. If anyone else has any ideas that they would like to see done, please let us know. We have couple of weeks to arrange and want to make this as effective as we can. Singhs are already making plans, so if you have any ideas, let us know asap! Can the international sangat also take note of the date and perhaps try and arrange programs in your gurdwara sahib's as well on the same date. Would be excellent if at least we can have an event and ardas in Canada, US, Germany, Australia, Hong Kong, Greece, Italy, Austria and others also all on the same day (albeit at different times of the day!) Please email info@chaupaisahib.org about this At the moment I think the sangat in new york have done 2 progs on the last 2 weekends and 2 more planned for next 2 weekends! Keep up the great efforts! We have less then a month now leading up to the June attack, so again please use this chauapi sahib jaap to educate our people about what has happened. Every paath done, every ardas done to maharajh will help our panth and bring us closer to Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

The seva of the saskar happened with the guidance of the mahapursh, Baba Narinder Singh at Goindwal Sahib and Baba Jagjit Singh (and the akal takhat) accepted their authority in this matter, as they are the ones who do this seva on a weekly basis (baba jagjit singh openly said that he had never done this seva before and that we should ask baba narinder singh). The same mahapursh has directed the Singhs to do this seva in the UK. This has had to happen as if the UK sangat had decided to do this without guidance of the experts then even more mistakes may have been made and there would always be someone who would be unhappy. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to contact Goindwal Sahib Ji and the Singhs there, as only they can really answer your questions/doubts. Any response you recieve from the UK sangat will probably/most often not be sufficient. The singhs from goindwal sahib are very nice guys and dont mind talking about the seva that needs doing. So please feel free to speak to them, or even visit there when your next in punjab and see how the seva is done there. One of the singhs went recently and he said it was very respectful and he was glad that advice had been taken from them! After this final part of the seva is done we need to focus on moving forward.

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh Just to let everybody know that the final ardas for the Chaupai Sahib jaap has been booked to take place at Sedgley Street Gurdwara Wolverhampton on 13th June 2009. There will be a 12 Hour Chaupai Sahib Jaap followed by the ardas kirtan, katha kaveshari's and lots more happening throughout the entire day. More details and posters, transport etc will be posted shortly. Please keep up the paath's we are nearly there now!

lol funny! which pic are we looking at here!? i cant see any people throwing flowers on anyone!? i can see a singh sittting down with some bits of flowers on his clothes and and mostly around him, possible coming from the har's on the other singhs! its brilliant the way without knowing we jump on bandwagons!! has anyone seen that pic of Shaheed Bhai Amrik Singh Ji and Shaheed Bhai Tara Singh Ji after they were released from prison during the dharam yudh morcha? Did you notice the amount of flower-hars they had aroudn them? Did you notice people throwing flowers at them? Anyone seen the video of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhaindrwale when he goes to Bombay and the sangat lining the streets throw flowers and hars at him and the rest of the Singhs? Anyone seen the pic of the shaheed singh from 1978 and the nagoke shaheed singhs and the flowers harsd around their necks after they were shaheed? Maybe you have maybe you havent. But lets just keep on discussing somebody we dont know. just take it easy guys there are real and bigger battles then this!

funny people! i dont see anybody asking any of you for their allegeince or anything like that! They are doing what they are doing, if you feel you can do better then please do so! Confusing brother a good place to read about the qualities of Gursikhs and how they are to be treated and the value of giving them satkar is Bhai Gurdas Ji's writing, both the vaars and the kabits. Many of us go through the same shock horror thing when we see people being respected in this way. but reading more will show you that there is nothing wrong in doing satkar of gursikhs, it is encouraged. The level that you do so is maybe something you need to decide for yourself. But the real gurmukhs will never treat themselves equual to guru sahib, that is their nishani. Flowers and stuff are nothing major, singhs in panj pyareh often have flower garlands placed around them, people doing a lot of seva are rewareded in this way as well. Just because we dont do it in the west doesnt mean its an evil thing if they do it in india. Again no idea who those singhs are, maybe somebody should find out before making comments.

Guys if your gonna write to people at least get it right! It was a girl who was asked to leave the exam hall, not a guy in the first instance. As Kuljit Singh Ji has said please avoid contacting the school, as some of the lead local and legal bodies have already done so, and we need to let them do their thing now. Thanks all

Sister you are entitled to your view. For me personally the Khalsa Fauj is very beautiful, but so far has not done its job of chatka'ing these two people. The Sikhs did not forgive Chandhu who was suffering from the great rogh/disease of ego and anger, they beat him with their shoes, put a metal ring through his nose and finally caved his head in. The Singhs with Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not forgive the 'assasins' of guru sahib at nander, they chopped him into little pieces. KP Gill could one day claim he was suffering from something as well, ohno vi shad deyeh? Guru Ji has plenty of love, but attacks on the Guru have to be dealt with by the Khalsa. Its easy as pie to claim that I did something under the influence of drugs or because i have mental issues. Half the criminals in the prisons will have said the same thing as part of their defence. There has been a massive failure of the sgpc and jathedhars in these issues. An example needs to be made of these culprits and of these fake leaders as well. On one hand they dont have the nuts to stand up to ram <banned word filter activated> raheem and then they demand peshi from singhs who try and deal with dusths!! Beats are gona have to go down on a fair few of these 'big boys' of the panth. Why give someone who has done beadbi in darbar sahib to the very organisation (the police) who were part of the greatest beadbi we have seen at darbar sahib themselves!!! Is the khalsa dead that we cant sort this crap out ourselves?! Maharajh do kirpa and give us strength.

Oh give it a rest man!

Iv instaled the software onto my phone and it looks pretty good. Just got a few operational questions ... With the search function, i have set the option to search for the first letter of each word, but when i try to then do a search, it doesnt seem to like it, and doenst do it! When i have searched for a shabad, and clicked on it to view it, it doesnt open. Should i click somewhere else as well? How do you close the additional tabs once you have opened them to return to just the basic seach/start screen? I really liked the way you can choose the settings for fonts etc, and whether you have english translations and or transliterations with each shabad! Makes reading the bani without english/transliterations much much easier!! Looks like a great piece of software, just need to get it to work properly on my fone! Got the banitranslation tool as well on it, so with both its pretty cool going at the moment!

im sure i typed some stuff up and said please read between the lines about what i am saying. Ok here it is in simple terms. People who have lived and worked in crews have told me what i typed. Also although the images of the grafitti (with a marker?!!!) seem to have gone from the thread, a friend told me that the grafitti said "LFC E2" i.e. suggetsing that the crew was from the E2 postcode area . The London fields crew are meant to be from E9 !! Kinda odd for a crew to get their postcode wrong .. dont you think? again this is what i have been told by someone from the area, i have not checked it. Please check it out for yourself if you need to. From the meeting with the police/community last week (it was cancelled on the day) there were several members of the community who were also convinced that some knew more then they were letting on. But these people were told to be quiet and were not allowed to speak. It definetly seems that somebody knows something, but maybe due to fear is not speaking out. Also the description of the arsonist has now ranged from black, to half, to white, to asain, to dark asain, to somalian etc. I.e for some reason the witnesses seem to keep changing the description. I duno why, maybe we need to see what the police have been told? Does anyone have a copy of offical police release? The eye witnesses have also at some stage say they remember what happened, and later say that they didnt remember anything. Something is definetly wrong.

Seriously guys, have any of the people commenting actually lived as part of these crews? People admit not knowing much about them, but still come out with theories. The area that these people live in is a few miles from the Bow Gurdwara. If you think it's them, then they all hang out in the big grassy area opposite the school. Why not pay a visit down there and ask them if they did it? Let us know what you find in your investigations. Or you can find someone who knows these things and ask them. End of the day if you approach these people and ask if they commited this act, they may not like the accusation and you may have to deal with what comes next. Sometimes its best to ask via other means, maybe through someone who knows the people. Read between the lines people. It may still be them, but nothing other then a bit of grafitti (which absolutely anyone could do, i could go there tomorrow and right the name of any gang) and the fact the person was said to be black suggests that it is a gang/crew who did this. Without being racist the area is full of black people, many who may do this type of thing for cash. It could still be anyone. As far as criminal acts are concerned, if a guy gets arrested for violence, stabbing, robbery etc it is seen to build their reputation. Setting fire to buildings/etc is a soft target and not something that people would be proud of. The gangs love cash, they fight and kill for cash, they are not gona spend money on payin someone to set fire to a gurdwara lol! But if you still need to speak to the police, then please do so, the more phone calls they recieve the better. But dont close your minds to other reasosn, maybe some that may be a lot closer to home. Sikhlionz in bang on, govt and police are just letting the situation get worse. Nobody to blame but themselves afterwards.

Dont be distracted by the potential gang link. Most of us have never been in gangs of this type and do not know how they operate. People who have/are in these types of gangs have said that this is not the kind of activity carried out by gangs. They would have targetted specific people not buildings. In the history of London gang violence, how many religious buildings have been burnt before? The gangs main concern is to make money and control territory, their violence in based on this territory and personal reputations. Burning a gurdwara benefits neither. Also the area covered by the London Fields crew is many miles from the Gurdwara. Again gangs wouldn't normally travel that far to carry out an attack. Most people dont know the local area, or how it is split between the local crews, so without this knowledge its pointless pointing fingers. Writing a gangs name on a wall is easy. Even as kids when we did something bad, we might do something to divert attention so someone else got the blame. Its the easiest and simplest way to shift fault. If you blame one of the most upcoming and violent crews in the area, it makes it even more feasible. If a gang has done it, we will find out, cus these guys love to talk about their acts of violence. A scribbled line on a wall is not their style. If they had wanted to target the sikhs, it would be much easier to stab/shoot someone, which these guys are not afraid of doing. It may be that a person was paid to do the attack, and he may be associated with a crew, but this does not seem like an official gang hit. The above may all be wrong, but this view was given by people with significant ex-gang experience having lived and fought in these gangs (not me b4 anyone jumps to that conclusion!).

Disgusted. Just saw this on the net. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji said: All of you Sikhs, living in the vilages and the cities, youngsters, those who call themselves Sikhs, why have you fallen asleep? If someone has set fire to Guru/Isht, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and his son just talks and doesnt do anything, does he have the right to call himself a son of that Guru? Maybe some people ought to ask themselves this question. Those who dishonour the Guru, or dishonour someones sister or daughter, for them there is no forgiveness.

Hitchen starting their 24 hour jaap of chaupai sahib tomorrow followed by kirtan by the acapella bibi jatha and bhau sukhjinder singh ji as well. Giani ranjeet singh and bhai harjinder singh will b doing katha in punjabi and english respectively. should be a great program!

The first of the international Chaupai Sahib Smagams is now being live broadcasted on http://www.justin.tv/saintsoldiersounds/popout

The first of the international Chaupai Sahib Smagams is now being live broadcasted on http://www.justin.tv/saintsoldiersounds/popout

The first of the international Chaupai Sahib Smagams is now being live broadcasted on http://www.justin.tv/saintsoldiersounds/popout

If it was such a clear agenda, then please provide evidence to support. Rule and conquer are generally the basics of any invading force which decides to stay put. Other forces may invade for just looting etc. However again I ask, what evidence is there to say that the rulers before (Guru Nanak Dev Ji) had mass conversion as one of their main agendas. Conversion by preaching or even via economic and social benefits would doubtless have taken place. But to say that they had a CLEAR AGENDA to convert the whole region to islam is a big thing to say. They may have wished it, but again it doesnt mean that this was one of their main efforts at this time. I dont have a great deal of knowledge in this area, but you seem to be making HUGE assumptions. With Aurangzeb it is obvious that he was a fanatic and wanted all to convert to Islam and followed insane poilicies of oppression to carry this out. Following rulers also did the same. However, this doesnt mean that previous rulers also had the same priorities. You seem to be taking the rule of Aurangzeb and applying it to all the mughal/afghan rulers. Thats just incorrect. And again as the other singhs have said, whether guru sahib was born in a 'hindu' family or a 'muslim' family etc is totally irrelevant. He was born due to hukum of vaheguru and came to spread gurbani.

I think your making a very large assumption that those in charge at the time had a policy of converting EVERYONE to Islam. Without having read up on this point specifically I would suggest that this was not the case. Later kings/emporers may have/did start on this policy. But during the times of Guru Nanak and upto the date of Maharajh's avtarpurb, it seemed to be more of a kingdom building approach. I cant recall any sakhi's during maharajhs period of people being forcibily converted to Islam. Other atrocities were committed and qazi's etc were obviously given excessive powers, but I dont think this fits in line with your argument, that all of Punjab would have been muslim by the time Guru Sahib took avtar. It seems you have made massve leaps and assumptions brother.

When he was booked why did people not let everyone know!!! Come on people, we have instant communication now, when dusht like him are coming let people know!!

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh How often do we all sit around and talk about the problems with life and the world. We have these great conversations and sometimes get really passionate about something. And then we finish our drinks, say fathe and go home. And thats the end of that. So much for the great ideas, so much for the passion. Why dont we actually get up and do something. Why not become active. If we see a problem and have even thought of a solution. Then why not try it! If we build up all this passion and then do nothing with it, its a load of wasted emotion and energy! If we think something can work, then do it. If we like the sound of an idea, then we should get involved. We shouldnt sit there and assume that someone will do it. They may be thinking the same thing about us - that we will do it! End result is nothing gets done! So please, lets all get active, lets talk yes, but do as well. Our history and philosophy is based on doing. Over and over Guru Sahib tells us that thinking alone will not get us anywhere, talking about what needs to be done wil only get us limited results. What really counts is the doing. Our great ancestors were people who got up and did what they thought needed to be done. Raja Ranjit Singh carved out a Sikh empire, because he thought it could be done and got up and did it. Can you imagine if he's thought 'it sounds like a nice idea, im sure someone else will do it.' Sorry for the negative sounding post, its not meant to be, its meant to be encouraging us to build on these ideas in our heads and do something! We have two large projects ongoing at the moment, the 1 million chaupai sahibs and the sikh channel. Both projects need us to help. If we sit there thinking ''hmm nice idea' and then do nothing - well what was the point! We may as well have just deleted the email! Please get involved in these projects/other projects that inspire us. Lets not sit around waiting for other people to do it. Lets take on the responsibility and do it ourselves.

Good response by the sangat so far, we now have around 90,000 paaths done. But we need to work harder! We need to let more people know about what we are trying to do. We all have hundreds of people in our friend networks, please can we contact ALL of them about this panthic seva. By not asking them, in one way we are making the assumption that they would not want to/ may not be able to do something for the panth. Lets at least give people the option of doing something.

Good response by the sangat so far, we now have around 90,000 paaths done. But we need to work harder! We need to let more people know about what we are trying to do. We all have hundreds of people in our friend networks, please can we contact ALL of them about this panthic seva. By not asking them, in one way we are making the assumption that they would not want to/ may not be able to do something for the panth. Lets at least give people the option of doing something.

Sant Jarnail Singh Ji - true son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharajh!

In memory of 1984 around 7 programmes have already been booked throughout February and March. More are being planned for April and May so please support and attend these events. Commitment to human rights is a daily thing, not just something we should be doing once a year. As it stands we have something happeneing every weekend for the next 2 months so lets turn up. The guy who asked the question is correct and so far our response has been typical. We jump straight to the March as for many of us this is about the only thing we do during the year for human rights/1984. Its not enough. We need to think outside the box and do more, a lot more. The march gets dismissed by the press and the india media machine/govt as a radical/fundamentalist rally. So while we should obviously still do it and make a success of it, we need to do other things as well. If people want to make the rally a success then they need to do the work themselves, dont rely on organisations. Unfortunetly more often then not, its a chance for certain org's to do a bit of self promo without any real parchar. So people should really make their own placards, banners, etc etc. Also benti to everyone involved in the rally, lets remember this is a panthic event and a panthic rally. Over the last 2 maybe 3 years again people have started bringing jathebandi/organisation names into it. This was NOT the case during the previous years. Please do not use this as a band wagon to fly the flag for your organisation, this is an event to remember the victims of genocide. Lets have some respect at least. Other ideas being worked on by different singhs from different areas include magazines, cd's, mass leafleting, documentaries (radio and tv) etc. Some of these are still in infacy so would not be right to discuss in further detail until they are closer to being realised. The issue of human rights should be important to all of us, and everyone should take part. Lets hope we can get some good work and parchar done this year.