akaash

Really difficult one. The Ek Niwas issue was never about Saroops or senchis. It was a quick reaction to the Ek Niwasis doing prakas of senchis. The singhs didnt even think about the existing loopholes. What will we do next if Ek Niwas have a internet link of Gurbani websites in their Mandir?? Or if the start prakas of Dasam Granth, Sarbloh Granth or even Bhai Gurdas's Vars?? We really need to start VICHAR instead of telling everyone that they should do something about beadbi. One’s views will differ from another’s. One might think covering Gutkas with rumaallas are ok while another might think that selling bani is beadbi regardless of rummalas. Without Vichar we will take saroops from one person who is committing beadbi in a way where we end up doing beadbi aswell. Without vichar we will always end up with short term solutions that do nothing for the betterment of the Panth. Instead we create and fall into more and more loopholes. Like Ek Niwas, SGGS was taken in the rain without proper covering. Was a hukamnama taken from the senchis when they reached the Gurdwara? If so then some would see this as beadbi because a hukamnama in a Divan should only be taken from a complete saroop, like a Sehaj Path bhog can only happen from a complete saroop. Without vichar we will never get the answers to these questions. R4G needs a protocol and a code of conduct, if it believes in Akal Takht Maryada then its important to understand and put this into practice. R4G doesn’t and cannot re write maryada so it fits its issues at hand. They have to identify the shortcomings and get response and resolve from Akal Takht.

I think is is now important to not weigh issues by beadbi but rather whether it is Manmat or Gurmat. It is manmat to take SGGS to hotels, but what about other issues? Gurmat vs Manmat has set rules, rehit maryadas and Gurbani to justify. Everything is not 100% beadbi.

The Youth have always been awake, we only think they have woken up because now we are involved. Why do we always end up with a protest for every issue?? Its a fact that the protests are becoming bigger and bigger but the same problems still exist. We are going round in circles. Thats the gist of the discussion, we need to responsibly channel the energies of people to get a real result which will give us fruit in the coming YEARS, not hours or day. I dont see people being put down however I do see different perspectives on how to tackle the same problem. People like AK47 have automatic guards that pop up when another point of view is thrown into the discussion.

Exactly.......Its our Sikhi at stake here. We will lose out if we dont take control. By putting the saint first we will understand that there are no short term fixes......

Protesting is not the answer to all our problems. Its good that our bubble has been burst. I think people need a reality check. A few people cannot make decisions for the majority. Instead the majority decises what the few do. It looked as if it was a race to do the protest. The situation was compared to Bhai Taru Singh. This guilt trip philosophy needs to stop and we need to work together rather that a few people trying to make the majority guilty for not being SIKHS. People turned up to something which at the end of the day was a profile building exercise for a group of people.

what do you think this means.... it means singhs are being productive and preparing things!! preparing for the future!! did you forget to read that bit?! and who is living on what day of glory!? it was one day, whoppee doo, some of the singhs involved are now involved in doing seva of around 3 or 4 camps taking place over christmas. sorry to burst your bubble, but people have more things to do then sit on their backsides after one day! read my prev post about what it means to do seva. again and again singhs are doing benti for everyone to work together and do seva, but all you do is moan!!! you offer no solutions, no ideas, no encouragement, nothing! all you do is complain! again its either your reading or something else... try READING for once! i dont get it honestly, what is it that your expecting? you think overnight 750,000 articles are going to be printed and delivered to every sikh across teh country?! people are working on things, and have been working on things for a while. will you offer your help?! will you offer to write an article, help distribute it? produce a film? fund it? etc etc, or will you just sit there and moan! so far youve not once made even a slight suggestion of helping but your pulling the rug under the feet of those that do! this is not mine of anyone else day of glory!! if it was a fathe then the fathe belongs to vaheguru, not to any individual .. you may have heard of this before .. .vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh .. ring any bells? seriously mate you have issues, again and again i repeat more sevadars are needed to get involved, again and again people remind you to contact the R4G guys to offer your help and sort out what were going to do in the future! but you DONT listen! you seem to think with one click of the fingers that things will be sorted!! check out your history, any kind of lehar in history was never done overnight! the singh sabha movement whether you agree with everything they did or not was not an overnight blitz! there were days of actions, and months of preperation and parchar. so yes this will take time, the more people get involved the easier it will be. and its not just a beadbi issue, its sikhi parchar in general. the more sevards get involved the more parchar we can do. with regards to the blankets etc, yes the singhs accept that galti and im sure have done ardas to maharajh asking for forgiveness, a couple of guys were sent running to the gurdwara sahib to fetch the items but maharajh started towards the gurdwara before they got back. the woman at ik niwas didnt let the singhs use anythin of hers, no towels etc not even water to wash hands, so singhs ran to shops to buy water etc etc. that speech is by one individual. you disagree take it up with him. and its not hatred against other religions, he was speaking against people who talk bad agaisnt sikhi and guru ji. some will say he was too agressive, others wont, depends on your point of view. sorry but im really shocked at some attitudes on display here. this is your guru we are on about here. gursikhs have stood for hours chest deep in water in a well holding up wood above their heads, but didnt let the wood get wet as it was for the guru's langar, even when he was saved from the well, he sent the wood up first. he put his guru above everything else. people today would call him a nutcase and a weirdo, a fanatic even. yet he was a guru ka pyara. Until we see the beauty of our guru things like this just wont make sense to us. i cannot and will not speak of the avguns of other singhs, but i can speak of my own and i can say that there are many many mistakes that i make on a daily, hourly basis! all i can do is ask for forgiveness from guru sahib and the sangat. if guru sahib wishes he will rid me of my vikaars and make my maan shudh. where we have shortcomings the sangat will help us improve and improve our sikhi. but know this, seva will continue no matter what the difficulties. this is not for our benefit, but for the panth. you can only live for the panth once you have died for yourself, this is the challenge we face, and its not easy beating the mind and killing the lust, anger, attachment ego and greed. but if we want to be even the dirt on the shoes of gursikhs who we aspire to, then this is what we must do. I apologise for posting again, i will try not to post again on this topic as it is going nowhere. basic question raised is, 'are there other things happening to teach the sangat the importance of guru ji so that incidents like this dont happen again'? the answer is 'yes there are, please get involved and help, as there is a lot to be done'. end of conversation So you want beadbi to stop, you want the sangat to get involved....but you want it done your way!!! Lets stop blowing our own trumpets and put our heads together and put Guruji first. It might have been a good turn out, the right singhs said the right stuff, but ultimately the day wasnt glorious for SGGS.....Their beadbi was happening in EkNiwas and then their beadbi happened by the Singhs who took Guru Ji. Thats a fact. Its you lot who want an immediate outcome!! Every protest needs an outcome or else we have lost the battle. Things will take time. Attitudes have to change and that will happen with Gurmat, not group intimidation. A prime example is Ek Niwas, they did prakas of senchis only to spite the Sikhs who said SGGS cannot be there. This is a vicious circle that we have created. We stop one thing by protest doenst mean the world will change tomorrow. We are facing issues of weak Sikhi within all of us. People were there all day but not one though about coverings, water, chaur sahib for SGGS?? Why?? Because a few are making decisions for the rest. We need to move away from this. The Singhs energies and josh must be channelled productively and responsibly. Parchar is the most responsible way of getting things done. AK47 just like you dont get the parchar thing, I dont get your protesting philosophy. I dont expect results tomorrow, but I do expect fruitful and positive results over time. Our revolution is against our own sangat not some regime who can be overthrown.

Penji - looks like the elder who brought the saroop out from EknIwas has done beadbi himself. Is The beadbi clear cut in these pictures? There is no proper covering of the saroop. The Elder has no rumalla or towel covering his head.

Stop living off one day of glory. We have to look forward and do something productive so the Sikh Panth has a lifetime of glory. If protests are an effective tool then you might aswell book every weekend for the next 4 years to protest outside all 300 Gurdwaras in UK. All these Gurdwaras are doing beadbi one way or another. This protest tool will become stale soon. We are talking about making people understand that the cannot do beadbi because SGGS is god, not that they cannot do beadbi because a group of Hooligans will chase them! These people doing beadbi dont see Guru Gobind SIngh's khalsa fauj coming to stop them. They see a group of lads, end of story. Everyone should stand up against people who have come to intimidate them!! The protesting is selective based on what will bring in the biggest acclaims. Look beyond YOUR day of glory. Your post is so defensive about the actions on one day!!! What about every other day?? What are we going to do?? Things are not as clear cut as stopping a saroop from going in here or taking a saroop from there. If you can see that then you will be protesting for the next fews years acheiving nothing.

If we are talking as Gursikh brothers and sisters then Guru Ji will give us the answers to move forward. Our sangat is our sangat. We cannot force them to rise, we can however improve them. Issues of Beadbis are not clear cut. Guru Ji will test his Sikhs like in Ek Niwas. Many thought the issue was closed when they agreed to stop SGGS at the place, however instead the started prakas of Senchis. Guru Ji is telling us the problem is not as simple as protesting for a day. It will take efforts to change people's attitudes. How do we stop these Gurdwara halls? Protesting will not achieve anything. Instead we have to change the attitude of the sangat for them to feel it is wrong to have a party there. This is not a attitude of putting other people down, its being realistic and the most effective way of combating beadbi.

Judging by the attitude of many on this forum, I dont think they are capable of engaging in parchar and Gurmat discussion with others. All they will say is "Your a Sikh, You do something" or "Why dont you lead on the Leeds issue" Come out of your shells and do parchar to the sangat. R4G doesnt want to take the route that will have greatest effect on the UK Sikhs. Instead they prefer the one day mob/hooligan approach with a outcome from which the can brag and produce self glorifying videos!! Think about Guru Granth Sahib and how beabdi can actually be stopped!!! Engage with the Sangat who are ignorant about respect for SGGS. You will find out soon or later that parchar was and is the only way forward. In all the ek niwas/ Baba Wadbhag Singh stuff not one on this forum gave an insight from Rehat Maryada or Akal Takht Hukamnamas about why Guru Granth Sahib must not be with murtis. Instead they tried to cover up smashing murtis at Baba Wadbhag and justified actions by making people feel guilty for not being there!! Without Gyan there is no JEET. With Gyan of Gurmat and Rehit you can win all battles without lifting a finger. Thats a fact. We are not fighting an enemy, we are fight ingorance. You cannot say all doing beadbi are enemies of the panth, they are our sangat who need educating. Knowledge is never gained my protests and within a day. It will take time, but why are we worried, SGGS is eternal and so is the Khalsa.

Where are the R4G posse? Probably still catching up on sleep after Greenford and Wolves. This Gurdwara has a bar within the complex, thats worst than having a hindu murti next to SGGS!! And its a beadbi in our own home.....

You really are clueless. Guru kirpa karnan. You are not practising Sikhi but a lad's culture. Thats not the Khalsa. Dont fool yourself. :TH:

yes it gr8 tht the beabdi was stopped, but i wud lyk 2 make 1 comment bhaji, sikhs have no enmity with any1 (nirvair) dnt h8 the sangat of the gurdwara of the wadbhag singh dera jus feel pity 4 them.they dnt know any beta maharaj is all forgiving we have all been blessed by maharaj-thats the reason we are all talkin abt maharaj now. dnt tink 4 a moment that we r able to talk abt maharaj due to our own intelligence Bhenji, I see so much ego and hatred on this forum that it looks like Maya has enticed Sikhs aswell. I dont think SIkhs actually believe that Guru Granth Sahib is a higher being who gives us guidence. instead Guruji needs rescueing and Bandi chor. If we are doing seva then we are a slave not the master. All we are doing is using foul language, talking vulgar about women, curing other religions, and blowing our own trumpets. This is bipran ki reet, dont expect Guruji's blessings. U must be reading another forum, because there is no hatred on this 1, that was the real account of what actually happened. u saying the sewadar dont have gurus blessings, then u are mistaken. the sewadar have gurus blessing. They actded gurus word. Guru said that beadbi should be STOPPED AS IT HAPPENS OR IS HEARD ABOUT. guru ji said that the sound of beadbi happening sholdnt even enter our ears. the alternative Your saying you would have gurus blessing if u allow beadbi 2 happen, having various murtia placed in front of our guru. having ladies underwear, makeup placed in sachkand. congratulations u just qualified as an <banned word filter activated>. why do people with these views even reply on here. they do 2 things: 1) Sit at home like sheep and not willing to take any action agatinst beadbi 2) Critisize others that pick up courage to stop beadbi. wake up, why are u sleeping? jaggo Come out of you ignorance. I am talking about the way Sikhs have to do this seva. My friend, you need to change your life and lead by example. Do you not want to use your seva to improve your sikhi? Instead you think that you are now a higher class of Sikh. Just because Sikhs didnt turn up to your protest doesnt mean people are sleeping.

Only through ego does someone feel that a Gurmat discussion is stabbing someone in the back. Those who proclaim to be stopping beadbi not do beadbi themselves. This can only happen with living the Sikh way of Life. Otherwise its a vicious circle were all Singhs will get is a ego that they are rescuing Guru Granth Sahib. Look at it this way, I agreed with the cause but I dont have faith in these people because of the attitude shown on this forum, in videos and pictures. What are YOU going to do to bring people like me in? There is only one way.....practice the Khalsa Principles and not be football holigans. Lead by example. By thinking we are the saviours we are not accepting Hukam, instead we are practising manmat. If Guruji spoke about those who disrespect them, then he also spoke about daya towards paapis aswell. Gurbani isnt black and white. It needs a Sikh with no ego to read and understand and explain Gurbani. Its not belittling, its life that people dont see the right attitude in you lot. Come off your high horses, for the betterment of the Panth.

yes it gr8 tht the beabdi was stopped, but i wud lyk 2 make 1 comment bhaji, sikhs have no enmity with any1 (nirvair) dnt h8 the sangat of the gurdwara of the wadbhag singh dera jus feel pity 4 them.they dnt know any beta maharaj is all forgiving we have all been blessed by maharaj-thats the reason we are all talkin abt maharaj now. dnt tink 4 a moment that we r able to talk abt maharaj due to our own intelligence Bhenji, I see so much ego and hatred on this forum that it looks like Maya has enticed Sikhs aswell. I dont think SIkhs actually believe that Guru Granth Sahib is a higher being who gives us guidence. instead Guruji needs rescueing and Bandi chor. If we are doing seva then we are a slave not the master. All we are doing is using foul language, talking vulgar about women, curing other religions, and blowing our own trumpets. This is bipran ki reet, dont expect Guruji's blessings.

Dear sant baba harkirat Singh, this shows the attitude I mean. Ek Bakwas, not even Guru Gobind Singh abused Aurengzeb. The meeting should actually be about becoming the Khalsa, then deras will stop beadbi because Guru Gobind Singh's fauj has come. Not a mob of kids lead by politically rejected elders. Dere, will this include sunderland gurdwara with a bar inside, or the lovely leeds Sikh temple who provide excellent alcohol and smoking facilities??? Are you picking on soft targets. How about strengthening your own roots first?? Then as the Khalsa no-one will come in your way. You lot didnt see the senchi sahib thing coming........whats stopping them from bring Dasam Granth?

Im talking about the stinky attitude of our Singhs who in the videos of greenford were pointing fingers towards the dera when they were saying the swaiya from Benti Chaupai. Ram Rahim puran quran was abused to intimidate the dera lot!! Khalsa sticks to their ideals. Why are you lot talking about women in such vulgar ways on the other threads?? People are slapping others down by calling them PADHS!!! Would Guru Gobind Singh call someone a padh?? At least try and use these beadbi issues to improve your sikhi. So far this is nothing but football holigans. So with the attitude shown in the videos and on this forum, why should I believe that bricks were thrown. If people showed khalsa attitude them I would believe everything a Gursikh tells me.

What will the campaign do if EkNiwas start doing prakash of Dasam Granth or Sarbloh Granth? I dont think our youth are so great that they will not use vulgar language or stick fingers up aswell.

Everyone forgets the second line of the dohra: jo prabh ko mile boj he, khoj shabad mein leh, Once you know the power of a shabad from SGGS, then you will automatically understand the value of the saroop. if you have no understanding of the shabad then durmat will kill you and the saroop will always look like a book. who out of the members on this thread involve themselves in the campaign?? You lot are confused over the saroop of Guruji?? What Sikhi are you teaching others??

This article is full of so much self glorification and ego its nothing to do with Guru Granth Sahib. How can you head the title as bandichor of Guru Granth Sahib? This shows that the Sikhs now thinks themselves to be the Guru of Guru Granth Sahib. Who do you think you are!!! Guruji's knight in Shinning armour!!! If you were Gursikh then the hukamnama you got, you would see that Guruji is talking about YOUR shortcomings. Instead you use it as a tool to attack others!!! Peaceful protest LOL! The video is show singhs being so intimidating and the speeches after at Sikh Missionary are the best!! Cut fingers and tongues of those who are against Sikhi!!! Ready for Shaheedi!!! Man its a joke.......you arent those Sikhs who can give shaheedi. Which one of you lot woke up for amrit vela after your mission?? If you didnt then accept the fact that Guruji back is towards you because his dear one are blessed with amrit vela!!! Get of your high horse. Remember your place in front of your Guru......you arent their father!!!!