chatanga

The majority? What survey have you done to see where the majority lie? If these miss nari cretins had the support of the majority, why did they not win the Delhi Gurdwara elections ? Sarna gave these fools total freedom to spew venom against Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth for years, but Banta Singh and Gurpreet Singh undid all their stupidity in 6 months. Now tell me where the majority of the Panth stands? As for parallel parkash, it has been done for centuries at various places, iniitiated by Sikhs who knew far more about Gurmat than you or I or your miss nari role models ever will, so it is good enough for me. It will never change no matter how many lies you or dhundlu tell. The three main principles of Gurmat, are naam Simran Krit krni and wand shakna. But Naam SImran is the bedrock of the other two. Your gurus want to deny naam simran and call it silly names and discourage other Sikhs from doing naam simran as well. No Sikh Dera mukhi allocates anything to anyone whorepeats Naam. Only Waheguru does. Sant Dhanrianwale always used to do naam simran until recently. maybe he has been infected with gandpreets venom as well. yet your precious dhundla along witrh the other miss naris use kali faghanis books as the only resource for sikhi. yes let's. I'm talking about the instituions, not the people within them. If you want to talk about people in them look at the rapist kali faghani, the bus condiuctor who stole money and was sacked - jeonwala, the electircity board employee who stole from his employers - inder ghuggu, let's talk about ghuggus daughter who whilst unmarried got pregnant from a man who marriage she destroyed. No it is not. Sikhi is all about living in hukam. We have a duty to live by ALL aspects of sikhi, including Naam Simran, Krit karni and vand shakna. If the so-called "pro-gurmat" camp wanted to tackle these socials evils with a sincere heart then they would have without attacking anyone. Who did Bhai Ghaneya attack? No-one, he worked for the scial welfare of all. Who haven't the miss naris attacked? No-one, everyone and every Sikh institution bar themselves is a target. You want to eradicate femlae infanticide by creating shanka over Naam Simran, Amrit, Dasam Granth, Nanaksar? You will never win. Why shouldn't gandpreet and dhundla just focus on social welfare then? The day they gain their senses they will stop attacking other Sikhs and Sikh institutions and focus on what needs to be done. How is insulting others fighting infanticide drugs etc? Bi-ray, then shut your damned mouth and keep your black nose out of other people's affairs and concentrate on what you need to do Bi-ray.

Another feather in their cap was the joining of that dog darshan who started his own panth. sucha high profile figure swayed those (ignorant) people who thought that such someone being of such a high stature in the Panth could not be wrong.

Sant gurbachan Singh was not the first to write this. The above re the Panj Pyare was written by Bhai Koer Singh in Gurbilas Patshahi 10 in 1751.

Yet you stated that the taksal openly canvassed for congress votes in the 1980 elections not so long ago. Time and time you were asked to provide any evidence of this apart from hearsay. You didn't provide any info, yet carried on with your same shhit-stirring nonsense.

There are some reasons why these miss naris have got some popularity recently. 1.The first is their extensive use of social media, especially facebook and youtube.Their media offensive is relentless and evergrowing, mainly because they are cathing those people who know nothing about Dasam Granth (amonhgst other things) first. They are corrupting minds to such an extent that thsoe people will not want to listen to anything else. 2. Their use the garb of being protectors of the SIkh Panth to get poplarity amongst panthic Sikhs. My own example. First time I heard of Dhunda was when he made a reply to kamlee kalesh over the vienna thing. I thought this dhunda is really good, very knowledgeable and very panthic. Even arguing with someone who told me what he was really like. But not having a sheep mentality and liking to do my own research it wasn't long before i realised what exactly he was. 3. The miss naris have diluted some of the bedrock aspects of Gurmat, primarily naam simran. kali afghani came out with his no need to keep kes etc. Amongst the sizeable sikh youth who weren't fond of these anyway they became those in sikhi garb who vindicated others own shortcomings. 4. The rise of superstiition and deras in panjab has also helpled the miss naris, as they falsely claim that every dera or baba is fake and taking people away from Sikhi to own their paths. This may be true of ram rahim and ashutosh but definitely not true of those deras like nanaksar, taksals and dal panths. yet they blast every single one under the same bracket. So by brakceting all deras, Sikh and non-sikh alike they are capturing the minds of those Sikhs who have no allegiance or sharda with any Sikh dera but now have become firmly anti-dera of any kind. 5. The miss nari resistance to Badal Dal and SGPC because of both institutions being corrupt or heavily politicised has gone down well with those are who are anti badal and are looking for those who can claim to be "rebels". 6. Thier work under the guise of "social welfare" work has helpd them get supporters in the same way the christians have converted poor sikhs by giving them money and helping them out. Recently we have seen this "singhsabh1699" or "uklondon" whatever encouraging these same ideals under the guise of Panthic bhala.

Don't know. There is nothing in Swaroop Singh's book about this. But we have a source which says that Bhai Mani Singh Ji did go to Sri HariMandir Sahib in 1698/9. Also the pre 1699 swaroops do not have Zafrnama in them. The Granths which were bound before this time stayed as they were. There is a granth in Sri Patna Sahib that is dated 1698 which does not have Zafrnama in it.

Doing some research on another aspect of history, I came across a source which says that Bhai Mani Singh was sent to Sri hariMandir sahib in 1698 after the Khalsa Vaisakhi by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It is written in "Guru kian Sakhian" by Swarup Singh Kaushish. The reason that 1698 comes up is because Swaroop Singh dated the Khalsa Sirjana in that year. If we are to hold fast to the Khalsa Sirjana of 1699, then that would also be the year Bhai Mani Singh went there. Bhai Mani Singh was sent there to take control of Sri HariMandir Sahib. Swaroop Singh writes that the meene had abandoned Sri HariMandir Sahib because of the increasing hostilities of the moghal authorities. As far as I know, Baba Banda Bahadur retook control of Sri HariMandir Sahib in 1711- ish. ( will need to re-read about though), and Bhai Mani Singh Ji had returnded to Sri Anandpur Sahib at some time, at Bhai Sahib was there during evacutaion of 1704. Bhai Sahib stayed with both Matas in Delhi until Matas directed him to go and retake control of Sri HariMandir Sahib again. Will need to re-read about that but at least we have one source in a historical writing that confirms that Bhai Mani Singh did go to Sri HariMandir Sahib shortly after Vaisakhi.

Amrik Chandigarh seems to be backtracking now. One of the guys asked him "Why did Baba Makhn Shah need to find Guru Sahib" if Guru Sahib was always amongst the sangat in that area?" Amrik had no answer.

This is correct to my understanding as well. I have read this episode, but I coluldn't remember the granth which it was in as it was a long time ago. The katha that I listened about this mentions sronatbeej. Thankis for the info. Do you know if Suraj Parkash Granth is the first granth to mention Dusht Daman? You can also listen to the katha of this sakhi by Baba Santa Singh in "Guru Nanak aap Parmeshwar" where Baba Santa Singh has done katha of Sri Sarbloh Granth. I can't find a link to it online but have downloaded a few years ago. It is definitely worth listening to.

Even to be in the same photo as majhi is a curse. And to put it under the name of Giani Ditt Singh. What a joke.

Have see this video. recommend to everyone to watch it. The missionaries might have poisoned Ranjit Singh's mind, dont let them poison anyone elses.

The Police revealed this.

It's not but there is NO reference in Gurbani about men lovingly serving their wives. Only loving wives serving their husbands. That should tell any one with one brain cell a lot. I agree. You get these freak feminists amongst others who just drive people away with their base education and views. It is a beautiful verse though is it not? The "metaphor" stands out a lot and tells us that there is something beautiful in loving wife serving her husband, just as there is something equally beautiful in a premi of Akaal, lovingly worshipping his name. Next you will say that Akaal should also worship the bhagat. Guru Sahib isn't thick asatkiran. The beauty and truth of the "metaphor" is reflected in the beauty and truth of the bhagat and his creator. As i told you years ago, once you acceot Guru sahiib's intelect over your own you will succeed. Unti, that day, you are set up only for failure. You have posted this so many times. Yet you have posted your rebuttal to it but not understood it. Did you yourslef not state that women were given post of masands where they led sangats as Guru Sahib's representatives? If the sangats were listening to the women masands why couldn't they listen to a female guru? How could someone as revolutionary as Guru Nanak state "why call her inferior..." and then be afriad of selecting a woman becuase Guru Sahib thought she would not be accepted? Did the Sikhs ignore Mata Sahib Deva/Mata Sundri after Guru Sahib passed away? Or did they accept and obey the hukumnanas given by these two women?

class it as whatever you want. The message is there.

Make up as many excuses as you want. It's there in black and white.

Go and ask them after you have asked them when was the last time they included a women in the panj sewa st Sri Akal takht Sahib.

ha ha. I knew that verse form gurbani would make you squirm. I had a good idea of what you was going to write before you did. This : It is in no way doing this. Yes when it talks about Har's bhagats but the 2nd line is exclusively refering to women! Gurbani does not agree with this. guru Granth Sahib is clear from the above shabd. Why would I want to see that? You can also show me many examples of sikh women reading Sri Sukhmani Sahib paath and then committing suicide. Its so funny watching you squirm with this! God!, now you will talk again about leaving Sikhi for the umpteenth time!

What a liar. Whenever a female takes tdrastic action over anything you will relate it to male chauvinism. I'm sure there was someone so outside of their mind that they needed to recite Sukhmani Sahib (which calms all minds) to commit suicide. Stop lying. I know it's hard for you but at least try! You are 100% right. asatkiran has no shame. She really likes to put words in peoples mouths and overhype anything they write. God knows what kind of a fool Balbir is, to put up with this nonsense. She was refered to as "the deceitful one" on sikhawareness. She can't change. Nobody tells them that. the only ones who have started t is people like yourself, who want to be seen as some kind of saviour. white saviour syndrome. The great white (fat) woman coming to save these poor brown women. Amrit is not a necessary step to spritually merge with waheguru.

asatkiran what does this mean? from SSGS: ਜਿਉ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਘਰਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੈ ਅਤਿ ਲੋਚੈ ਭਗਤੀ ਭਾਇ ॥ ਬਹੁ ਰਸ ਸਾਲਣੇ ਸਵਾਰਦੀ ਖਟ ਰਸ ਮੀਠੇ ਪਾਇ ॥. ਤਿਉ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤ ਸਲਾਹਦੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥ I have asked you twice before but you didnt want to answer. Whats the reason? IN the UK, the largest number of converts to Islam are women from middle-class. Educated, career-minded women. It's best not to speak of hindu or muslims women as you are quite fond of doing, but stick to sikh women. That's what this thread is all about. That letter from the spy is no evidence. There is no such letter that exists at this time. Nor is ther any copy of any such letter existing. However something that you should be able to verify more easily is the "some prominent women", you talk of. Let's have some names. As a male, I was taught the same thing by my mother. She can't. She can't read Gurmukhi beyond single letters, and she relies on translations. Her way of provinding evidence is to copy and paste from very dubious sources. There you go. Point proven.

Sure, Harnam Singh is a supporter of the akalis, but what measure did you use to ascertain whether other jathedars and mahapurkhs of taksal havea better understanding. And who are these jathedars and mahapurkhs? I would also include Gyani Parwinderpal SIngh Buttar and Bhai Gurpreet Singh california in the "good" list.

Ok, so take these "facts" to the Gurdwara you ttok amrit in and ask them whether eunuchs/she-males/trans-genders are included in being part of the Panj. Cite the aboive reason and then give us their response.

If you weren't so devious you would have answered these points, instead of pretending to be a horse writing for you.

Thats not what i asked you for and you know it. I'll repeat again: Plain and simple. Your mother should have taught you not to be so devious. Its your deviousness that you need to work on. Yes because you speak for all of them like you try and speak for all Sikh women.

I know ALL about asatkiran. I have been witness to her crass and erratic behavour for time. She was put in her place on Sikhawareness forum and no dount the time has come for her to be put in her place here. It was long overdue. And if you are wondering why she is called asatkiran, it's because she is truly a ray of falsehood. Even then she didn't know what the word "asatkiran" meant. Someone else had to point it out to her. So much for 20+ years of studying sikhi as she likes to claim. Asatkiran created a topic and tried to insult Sri Charitropakhyan, but I knew it was her straightaway, and then when I called her out and told everyone here her real identity, lo and behold, who pops up to defend herself? Claiming that the OP "found" her on another forum and informed her about this topic? What rot. What nonsense. That is truly underclass behaviour. This again is a trait of asatkiran. Sentences with exclamation marks continously. Then she tries to pretend it's her horse of a husband. She tried the same on Sikhawareness and here as well. Don't be fooled by it. It's not her husband. This is A Sikh rehet maryada. It is only a recent invention that was forced on the panth. Yes thy should. But for the purposes of panj pyareu sewa, only males woith complete bodies are allowed to it. That means no women, no transgenders, no eunuchs as well as people who have any limbs or digits missing. If your precious fools who gave you amrit said that women should also be allowed to do this sewa, then you should have struck a blow for ALL people of all genders and no-genders alike, by stating that eunuchs should also be allowed to do it. Seeing as you are in Kashmir, go ot the place where you took amrit and ask them to include eunuchs and people of no genders in the panj. let's see where that gets you. take your horse husband as well, he sounds like he needs a thappar. And film it, so we can see. Come on ! I dare you! Balbir Singh you as well! Go and try it! That will be the next step of your journey. let us know how it works out.

Well if you dont then you will hear nothing else. The same rubbish, over and over again. This forum is better off without her.