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There have been, throughout history, many intellectual and philosophical discussions within Sikhi. This is natural as man needs to find peace as to why he is here. But.......this is the first time in Sikh history....and the history of Sikh intellectual discussion worldwide.....that a thread espousing Ghandiesque celibacy has reached 14 pages. Gandhi, if you'll remember, was a great supporter of celibacy, and so used to sleep naked with his young neices in order to show how "devoted to God he was" and how his celibacy "could not, in the slightest, tempt him". In this day and age, when men with such thoughts will undoubetdly be placed on the sex offenders register as definitive perverts its hard to understand why anyone still, on page 14 of a thread that never needed to be born in the first place, is still arguing the Ghandiesque point of view. For those of you new to the world, perhaps only just come out of your mother's womb, Ghandi was a man who, to the whole world, kinda represents Hinduism. But leaving that aside lets go back to the Indian ascetic train of thought about celibacy. Our Gurus have told you time and time and time and time and time and time again that it is your duty as a Sikh to marry, have kids, work hard (not claim social security...not commit mortgage/insurance fraud (i.e social security) and live the life of an honest hardworking householder. So what exactly is it that makes so many 'Sikhs' on this thread ignore the obvious and embrace the hindu ascetic Gandhiesque philosophy ? I don't know but...as I said before on a previous page...assuming these Gandiesque lovers are right (and of course we should all do whats right) I'll be celibate...you'll be celibate....uncle Joginder will be celibate....cousin Manpreet will be celibate....auntie kalwainder will be celibate......cousin Simran will no longer exist because uncle Joginder was celibate......cousin Jaspreet will be celibate........nephew Arun will be celibate....neice Prabhjyot will be celibate and then...............BANG There's no one left. No Sikh is getting married and so no Sikh is having babies anymore and so the Sikh population of the world = Zero. Welcome, my friends, to the world (thread) of the people that have more time than sense and take a non-brainer issue like this to 14 pages.

Brother Singhbj Singh, the link you have provided is great, I was going through it, and have come across some precious words of First Patshahee Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj, which are related to your question in your post, and which I am going to present them below: sach simariai hovai paragaas Remembering the True Lord in meditation, one is enlightened. Here Guru Jee is telling us, that by remembering Him in meditation, one gets the strength to overcome one´s weakness, because then the power of of the mind is subdued with his Light, which emanates from the practice of His simran, that is why Guru Jee says: Sach simrai hovai pargaas, by meditating on that primal Truth, one is enlightened and realizes the supreme importance of Wahiguru above all otehr things, our manmat, our durmat, is washed with Gurmat. thaa thae bikhiaa mehi rehai oudhaas Then, in the midst of Maya, he remains detached. Then here He says: As we meditate on the the one truth which is nowhwere outside, but rather within us, so just as if outside is hot, but we at home have an air conditioner switched on, the heat outside will not affect us. In a similar way, we may be surrounded by maya, but if we have attched ourselves conscioussly to that Primal truth within us, namely Wahiguru, then no vikaar, no maya can affect that devotee of the Lord. sathigur kee aisee vaddiaaee Such is the Glory of the True Guru; And this Glory of Wahiguru, is as aparampaar as Himself. puthr kalathr vichae gath paaee in the midst of children and spouses, they attain emancipation. Once again, He says, it does not matter if even is midst our near and strong relationships which are karmic bonds bonds, but such powerful is His Bhakti, that one while being on the surface of the water in a pond, one´s face is like a lotus flower, which remains towards the Lord unaffected by the mayavee surroundings. aisee saevak saevaa karai Such is the service which the Lord's servant performs, By all other means, one´s efforts are useless, just as the mighty Ravan, who with all his powers, sacrifices, knowledge , was a failure as a spiritual seeker, because he never performed the bhakti prescribed by all true gurmukhs, Bhgat jan, and Guru Sahibans, which is none other than Naam Bhakti. jis kaa jeeo this aagai dharai that he dedicates his soul to the Lord, to whom it belongs. Here He is telling us, that, by His Grace alone, one performs His bhakti, and one thus returns and merges in Him, our origin. Sat Sree Akal.

If anyone should be kissing others feet, it should be the so called refugees.

thats not my only goal, i know we have bigger problems but I only started this topic to see what peoples views were, J knoe veganism doesnt have precedent over other issues tght now.. but, If we are fighters of opppresion then its a little hypocritical for us ro carry on with these eating habbits Im not saying change karah parshad, I accept it as gurus hukam but im talkng about the things we do have a choice about tbat we dont do anything about. like when we choose to eat chocolate and paneer at home when we know where its come from.

being vegan does not make you weak, its a myth, the strongest man in the world was vegan and the one of the best ufc fighters is vegan, You can get more than enough protien from plant based foods which means the killing of animals in un necessary, people who eat meat today do it only to satisfy their taste buds and cannot see beyond that.A high carb vegan diet is the richest diet as carbs and glucose arw what gives our body energy, Its our bodies preffered energy source, eating rice, pasta, bananas, oats, suger, all these things are fuel for our body, i Cycle, train muay thai and weight train on a weekly basis, eating meat doesnt make anyone more capable to fighting terrorists lol, in fact i think it would make us less a capable as we would be too obese and fighting cancer and beart disease we wouldnt have time to think about helping others. Im not calling for a change in karah parshad, ofc i want gurdwaras to use ethical sources, but i understans its hukam. Im talking about changing the things in our diet which is not hukam, like serving chocolates, yogurts ans milk chai in langer, and turning more sikhs vegan. Look veganism is growing right now and bc of the envirmonetal impacts, governments will soon have to force people to go vegan, if the sikhs are already vegan its more promotion for us.

Actually celibacy was never a maryada of Hazoor Sahib. The initial Nihungs who built the shrine were celibate but not their successors. For more info, read the following: http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/2015/08/guardians-of-gobind_16.html Shunning family and social life was never a maryada of the house of Nanak: https://tisarpanthdotcom.wordpress.com/2016/02/09/the-warrior-who-was-nanak/ A relevant portion from the above article: 'Of great significance, the householder’s life, in opposition to renunciation, emphasizes social involvement in all spheres of life. So unique was this departure from traditional Indic thought, that several orders accused the Guru of having ‘diluted the milk of spiritualism with the acid of familial life.’ (53) The Guru however retorted that without the existence of families to beg from, these orders and their charades would have ceased to exist long ago. (54) Other than the adolescent Guru, Guru Harkrishen Sahib Ji all the Gurus were married men and leading householders. ‘One who is incapable of making an effort to earn a living, has his ears split (sign of asceticism; interjection ours) or becomes a mendicant. He declares himself to be a Guru or Saint but begs from door to door. Do not emulate such an individual or touch his feet. Only he knows righteousness, who earns by effort and shares his earnings with others.’ (55) It is a Herculean irony that rather than honoring the idealism of their Gurus, Sikhs instead choose to honor men who in a direct contrast to the Guru live out their lives in secluded deras, whilst renouncing the concept of family and family oriented life. Such recluses are the collective shame of the Khalsa Panth.'

Lol do u know the implications of eating meat and fish and dairy? There is a spiritual benifit, how can u find inner peace if your consuming torture and rape? a balanced diet is bs, 14 out of the 15 major killers of humans is related to eating meat, so meat is not healthy and the world health organisation says meat is a carcinogenic, its ranked amonst ciggerates in terms of how bad it is for you. the reason you do not know this is because the meat industry is bigger than the oil industry, countrieis go to war for oil so imagine how brainwashed we are when it coms to meat. Guru gave us the hukan of feeding the world when he said degh tegh fateh, do you know how inefficient the meat industry is? it takes 300 galleons of water and 20 kilos of grain to create on hamburger, meanwhile theres kids in africa and india who have no water or food to eat, they feed cows soy to get them big for the meat industry where we could have fed that soy to humans and ended world hunger. And dont get me started on fish, They say the way were fishing there are going to be fishless seas by the year 2048, this is not a conspiracy, its happening now. Think of this on a practical level, This is the beauty of sikhi, Guru gave us an ethics based religion, we have to see whats happening to the world around us and how we can help, by Going vegan ur literally saving the planet. the meat industry causes 3x more global warming than the whole of the transport industry combined, think about that. I think we need to talk about veganism before its too late to talk about anything else Wjkk Wjkf

Jo har kaa piaaraa so sabhanaa kaa piaaraa hor kaethee jhakh jhakh aavai jaavai |17| One who is dear to the Lord, is dear to all, so many others come and go in vain. ||17|| Source - http://igurbani.com/?shabadid=2131&id=24418 "Dear to all" is the Criteria for being a PIYARA ! Stop promoting biased individuals & jathas whether present or from the past.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH There is no room for changing ingredients of Karah Parshad. It is a recipe as relayed by Guru Sahib. I mean why not just start using Sweet N Low for preparation of Amrit?

ONLY EXPERIENCE PROVIDES TRUE KNOWLEDGE We may spend all our lives praising Wahiguru, but if we do not experience it by ourselves, we can not get Him. Mere talking or listening does not take us to Him. It is our "karnee", our sincere efforts, in the form of bhakti, which takes us closer to Him. Let us face the reality. Wahiguru is inside us. But inside ourselves, we pay no attention. We are lost and entangled outside; there where, all is maya .... That is why our Guru Sahibans, have stressed upon only one true bhakti, which is Nam Bhakti, Nam Simran, Nam Abhyaas, which draws all our attention from outside, and makes us concentrate upon only one eternal Truth, namely Wahiguru. It is only then, when we experience by ourselves, the bliss of Wahiguru. That is why, the bani says: "Jin Har japiyaa, se Har hoeeyaa" This is the only road(Nam Bhakti) which takes us, to His Charan Kamal. Sat Sree Akal.