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You're free to eat Jhatka meat only as our Sikh ancestors did so, however if you do then you should be practising proper shaster vidya and leading an active life . Guru Granth Sahib Ji says the meat eaters and the vegetarians etc are all hypocrites, eating for pleasure is wrong, eating to keep yourself going is fine. Life resides in everything, saying Vegetarianism is more ethical than Meat Eating is pretty wrong as both contain thousands of alive microbiol and there were documented cases of plants screaming in pain when you pluck them (they have pain receptors). However do be warned that eating meat has an affect on one's spirituality, due to the meat being protein rich and the nutrients that make it up, it can affect your state of mind, thus making it difficult to meditate and such.

I see what you did there... "cracked up" like an egg :D Well, this eggs is just an unfertilised egg. No sperm, no embryo, NO LIFE. Human women have periods, this is where an unferilised egg is removed. Does this egg turn into a baby? Nope. We all wear leather shoes, feathers (in pillows), animal skins on your instruments (in the gurdwara too). Why can we use these products? They are all unused bits that would go to waste so we use them. Don't drink milk or have honey you are depriving young animals. I don't eat egg but it doesnt seem bad

ok if hens and roosters are kept seperate then the egg is not fertilised, to make it very simple if men and women are kept away women wont have babies! yes indeed you could be depriving the hen/rooster of meeting their one true love, but for me forcing a cow to stay away from its children not feed them etc is worse

Well what do you really think they are ??

Eggs are not the same thing as meat. That is the whole point of the discussion. If they are not fertilised please explain to me how they "ARE the animal in the early stage of development"? Unfertilised eggs do not have an embryo. There is no way they can form an animal. You say that "it is part of a category of food that we cannot consume. simple as that." but provide no justification to back this up. This is exactly the reason why I started this thread so people more knowledgeable than me could point me to the evidence where it says we are forbidden from eating eggs (either in the form of specific Shabads or the Rehat Maryada). The issue is also entirely separate from alcohol. There is absolutely no question that alcohol is not permitted in Sikhism. Besides the many bad effects on general health it also affects your mind and when you are intoxicated you cannot keep your mind on God. The same thing with other drugs. Just because something has been considered a norm for sometime does not mean that we cannot try to find out the reasons behind it or be inquisitive. The definition of a Sikh is a learner. Guru Ji did not want us just to be blind followers who never ask any questions and there are several examples of Guru Ji going against certain traditional practices of their times to prove this point. For example, Guru Nanak Dev Ji visiting Haridwar and offering water in the opposite direction to all the Hindu pilgrims. Another example is Guru Gobind Singh Ji on his way to Deccan when he bowed to the grave of a Muslim saint, in violation of his own instructions to The Khalsa. However, the Sikhs protested and Guru Ji agreed to be judged and fined by the Panj Pyare. Later he disclosed that he did all this to test his Sikhs to see whether they cared more for their principles. Now I am not trying to compare myself to the actions of Guru Ji (which would be one of the stupidest things one can do) but my understanding from these Sakhis are that Guru Ji encouraged Sikhs to not only be humble but also to think for themselves if something does not seem right. That is why I was humbly requesting that if someone can actually point me to anywhere where it says that eggs are not to be consumed by Sikhs I will be very grateful. Like I said already I am not here to convince people to eat eggs and neither do I eat eggs myself. I am here to learn. Sorry for the long reply and I apologise if anything came out the wrong way. WJKK WJKF

Good fair points and We should make the effort in resourcing the milk from more natural and humane sources. You mention that the eggs, no matter if fertilised or not contain animal proteins.- AND YES, this is a sort of cannibalism if we look at it in this manner BUT milk also contains the same animal nutrients, so we can't just ignore and make different rules for that can we ?

I know it's difficult to see it like that because we have become conditioned into thinking this way. Yes the muslim and fish story is a joke,,because in non halal environments they go as veggie with fish !! That's their issue and I'm not going to debate here. However there are no goreh that follow this exception. A real vegan will NOT eat fish either. In my case, I feel guilty if I drink the mass produced milk from supermarkets where the animals have gone through cruelty. To overcome this I started getting fresh farm milk where the cow has not been pumped up to produce. A little like back in punjab. The problem is that I ended up with a few severe infections because of this risk, so what do I do ? Well it's safer for me to have the treated milk back in the store, but then again I'm cotnributing to the further cruelty. Bottom line is that it is better NOT to have milk and eggs if we really care. However, chaa and coffee is difficult to abandon, so it may be better to just have milk, ie.. to help cause harm to the cows only rather than cows and chicks if you were to take eggs as well. We should have a guilt factor for the milk consumption, if we don't then that is simply ignorace.

I am one of those past students. I was trying to keep it all simple so that everyone can understand. On a scientific level, I can assure that as much cruelty goes in to milk supplying as goes in to getting your eggs. So I can't endorse eating eggs either but don't get the wrong impression that drinking milk is any better than eating eggs. Because this is the real misconception among us indians, alot of us falsely believe we are doing nature favours by drinking milk and not having eggs- This is wrong, and the damage is equivalent in both. Which is why many white and goras laugh at us when we say we are veggies that eat dairy !! We come across as half way picky people, who make our own rules on what we class as animal cruelty and what not. This is the real point to address and like I say it was white and gora folk that informed me of our crazy indian egg/milk myths !!

It can't be fertilised once it's out. The egg comes out regardless. If a rooster is present then the egg will be ferilised if not then the same egg is simply eaten by the chicks and hens because it is nutritous. The real reason why we don't eat them is because of old hindu and indian veggie beliefs whereby milk and other dairy is allowed but not eggs. A real vegan does not have any animal products, so no cheese, milk, eggs, yoghurt..etc.. This is why we have this extra veggie term called 'HINDU VEG' when we order flight meals and in some restaurants. It simply means NO MEAT and NO EGG - but other animal products are OK. Do we just blame brahmin and vedic contributions for this ignorance or do we move forward and learn ?

This is what we are saying- that it's NOT a fetus !! Sounds weird, I know, I only learnt of this within the last year and it got me thinking. You see it's just like the lining that develops in a human female. This lining is every 28 days and if no egg is fertilised then it is just a waste prodeuct that is eliminated ie.. the monthly bleed. So you undertstand that NO fetus is bled or eliminated. In the same way the egg is eliminated from the hen in their cyles which are something like one and a half weeks or similar Only IF a ROOSTER is present can they be fertilised and then will develop into chicks ! The points that a lot of strict vegans and vegetarians make is the cruelty in to keeping these hens for that purpose and just using their eggs for a couple of years and then killing them after,- HENCE, we have 'free range' where these conditons are not imposed. Their argument is that cow cruelty for supllying milk is worse because the milk is never given from mother to baby as nature intends but the mother cow is kept away from it's babies and used to supply us gallons and gallons of milk. After a few years this cow is also killed and used for meat !! So where is the real cruelty worse, the eggs OR milk ? This leads to some true strict gora veggie that claim there is less cruelty in just killing an animal from its natural environment and then eating it compared to rearing and maintaining one to use and abuse for supplying milk and then having a good weight on it for years to later use it for meat. In other words it is only kept healthy so that it can supply us milk and then later some good ounces of meat ! Where does that leave eggs ? Same kind goes on here. They keep these hens and chicks to be free and healthy supplying us their wasted eggs and then they too get killed for the meat !!

If i'm not wrong,I believe that all the eggs available for purchase are non active or not fertilisable. This information was first given to me by some strict gora vegans who couldn't undertstand why I thought milk was fine and eggs were not. I soon learned that the cows are put through much more cruelty and strain in order to give us our daily milk than hens go through with eggs. The eggs on the supermarket shelves are all waste prodcts of the hens cycle as mentioned. The hen naturally produces these no matter what, although I need to check on which ones get induced or stimulated to produce more eggs which would mean tampering with their hormones. I'm not sure what the situation is with that and exactly what 'free range' means, but I will try and learn. Bottom line is don't feel so gulity if you have accidently eaten a cake or cookie with egg product in it because it is not what we make it out to be. However, we should all learn a little more to get a better understanding. If it's more to do with nature just like honey and bees are, then we need to educate ourselves about it.

Yes the eggs we purchase are not embryo's and are not a would be life. They are a by product and are produced as per cycles of the hen. There is nothing cruel about taking them from the hen than taking milk for that matter. The problem is the lack of education and hindu vegan influences whereby eggs are not eaten with the false belief that a life is killed or stopped from producing. No one can justify or explain why you should not have eggs but you can take milk because of the lack of knowledge. What you do is up to you and gurbani does not say either way it is neutral on this issue.