sall

WJKK WJKF Apologies manglacharan agreed knowledge is power only when applied otherwise knowledge is nothing if NOT applied.

As to the the other point of being proactive, proactive can mean just more than a refrain from reaction but is rather best xpressed through an effort by every Khalsa generation to behold and activate the vision, the image, the form, the challenges, the Will of God and Guru for it, as Sikhi spreads through the entire universe like an oak tree sprouting from a seedling. WJKK WJKF Many Thanks humkire jeeo for your input the "proactive" indeed it's effort and to act on it for every Khalsa. An essay could be written on this word.Sikhee indeed itself is "proactive" and will prosper as it's seeds have been planted so deep beyond imagination by our Guru Jee and our Sahibzadas. Bit by bit, day by day,second by second of our precious lives we should aim to work on ourselves to be part of that spirit and to be grateful for having such a Gurus/Masters and Dhan SGGS.

WJKK WJKF Please ponder upon the below: 1. Can we ever know what our expectations are going to be??...nature has a way of testing in many ways even the ultimate super Gursikhs were tested, read the story of Bhai Manj. No matter who you are in life whether Gursikh or not your identity and soul reason for being will be tested, this is a universal law. 2. 99% of the time we are reactive in our behaviour towards anything, not many are the opposite which is Proactive. Gursikhe points in a proactive vision " dadda dosh kisse na dejaa"...do not blame ever anyone for your consequences or situation very hard to do easily said. Proactive people don’t blame anyone but carry on in a manner to constructively adapt to the situation as if to accept it willingly and work with it to improve, seek out to improve it, taking initiative as wales85 did in the above posting. You have to think very deeply about your life and your values and build on those values once you know what they are. Do you know what are your own values and how to find them if you don’t know? 3. As an effective individual you need to find time for your physical- in the form of some kind cardio or exercise for 30mins-1hour daily, secondly meditation for the mind, naam simran or mool mantar everyday on top of your daily nitnem. If all these are done for at least 3 months you will see change without a doubt in your thinking, attitude to your daily challenges. 4. Life is about facing everyday challenges with chardi kala (dynamic optimism), see if you ca produce the consistency in the above points and report back on this thread on how it’s going as others may learn from it too. 5. There are 3 constants in life Change, choice and principles , how have you adapted to all three so far? We simply assume that the way we see things is the way they really are or the way they should be. And our attitudes and behaviours grow out of these assumptions. When you have a challenge and the response is equal to the challenge, that's called "success". But once you have a new challenge, the old, once-successful response no longer works. That's why it is called a "failure". We are not human beings on a spiritual journey. We are spiritual beings on a human journey

[ WJKK WJKF Yes u can listen to them if need be, however goal is memorize them over time, so reading is encouraged. Listening to them isn't banned. At all times u must listen to or read all five not one.....

WJKK WJKF Please sign online petition : www.sikhchannel.tv and pass on

How many in the mind MMA ?, I'm in that one every day!!!

WJKK WJKF Incorrect peak power of strength is with the sikhs at all times 24*7 with hazara hazoor SGGS, however sikhs seem to disarray from SGGS and core values through different periods. Biggest issue criticism and nindia we are the best at this and need to stop it asap to progress as Bhagat Fareed mentions in SGGS: "KHAK NA NINDIYEE KHAKHU JED NA KOYE" which means " Fareed do not slander even the dust,nothing is as great as dust.When we are alive,it is under our feet and when we are dead it's above us!!" Solution: Every sikh has to follow the core values of sikhe by being pro active on them and not reactive.Most of our failings are due to being reactive as most people are based on feelings without the thought of values.

WJKK WJKF Great this should be pointed out, just goes to show where most of the energy is on this forum. And if we continue in the same way we will not get anywhere. We all want Khalsa to be up there where it matters however we don't have the momentum or energy to get out there and help the ones that are Khalsa and active at present. Every believer in SGGS on this forum should make a pledge not to make this mistake again.

WJKK WJKF Please check here for further clarification http://www.sikhism101.com/node/137

WJKK WJKF Please check here and the raag system http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Timings_For_Gurbani_Raag http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Raag

WJKK WJKF Why is it that we always seem to believe predications and put so much weight on proclaiming certain events are going to happen, being told by our lineage or samprada sants or even prominent Sikhs Questions is: Does Gurbani teach us to look for such predictions when it crystal clear in Japji Guru Sahib mentions " Ant nah japee kehaa maan maant" !! ??? Why is it so important for us, it seems in the whole of India, punjabis are the most influenced by this behaviour even more than hindus?? Sensible answers only please with backup from Gurbani if possible...

It gave the Whites another chance to be racist again. Europe was a scientific discovering and they broke off from Asia. They have wasted alot of time searching on the outside. It is time they started following Gurmat and begin the inner spiritual journey. true indeed and could well be indeed, you can see it happenning already.. When ever a recession happens even in India they just steal from the banks and loot and plunder. And when it's over the people build up again to do the same mistake. We actually are in depression conditons however the media and governments will not mention it anywhere. The European Union: Looking at the European Union’s quick expansion during this past decade," one could draw a parallel to the rapid expansion which took place in the United States after it was founded. The U.S. Civil War broke out in 1861 after the Dow Jones Industrial Average bottomed in 1860. The UK Financial Times All-Share Index and indexes from other EU nations are now in their own severe downturns. The speculation that took place during the bull market in the 1840s for the United States and the 2000's for the EU could turn into further periods of discord as the markets turn down on the upcoming Primary third down wave of this secular bear market which started in 2000. Both unions appeared to be strong when markets were rising. But once stocks reversed, the stress of a bear market severed those bonds quickly……… War eventually broke out among the U.S. states. I am of the opinion that an equally perilous period may be coming for the countries of the EU. As the conglomerate's mood turns more negative in Europe, political conflict will most likely surface and erode the ties that have bound EU nations together. The social unrest that surfaced in Europe around the March 2009 stock market low brought us just a taste of what to expect in the future when old grudges, trade disputes and financial disagreements most likely be resurrected. Here are the first five hits on Google when you do a search of the Social unrest which took place in Europe showing how the Global recession which triggered in America played out in Europe with increasing violence, and other forms of social unrest. Social unrest grips Europe as global recession bites Civil Unrest in Europe Social unrest in Europe, Britain begins to collapse Europe's winter of discontent – Telegraph European Protesters: Lead Indicator of Violent Social Unrest ... We only have to look at the latest discord between Germany, other EU members, Greece and the EU Leaders After Greece recklessly spent its way into oblivion and potentially leaving German taxpayers to help pay for a bailout, lawmakers in Berlin offered a suggestion to their profligate neighbor to the south: If you want to raise cash, why not sell off a few islands The Greeks, furious over earlier German criticism of their spending habits, suggested the Germans could solve the problem by making reparations for gold stolen during the Nazi invasion. "The creation and enlargement of the EU was one of Europe's biggest achievements, but now its inability to speak as one, and its failure to agree on how to tackle its underlying economic and social challenges, is undermining Europe's standing and potentially leading it into a period of decline and in my opinion its most likely demise. After weeks of negotiations, these countries remain at odds over how to handle the single biggest issue confronting the region: the debt woes in Greece that have sparked the worst crisis in the 11-year history of the euro. Just this Friday April 23, 2010…. Greece's request for aid showed a sharp reversal from earlier assurances that Greece did not need a bailout. Prime Minister George Papandreou called his country a "sinking ship" and requested $56 billion from the European Union and the International Monetary Fund. The request came one day after Greece revealed that its 2009 budget deficit is 13.6 percent of the Greek gross domestic product, higher than the 12.7 percent the country had originally claimed, and well over the EU's 3 percent ceiling. This latest revelation further undermined investor confidence in Greece’s ability to make the difficult spending cuts necessary to reduce its deficit. After the announcement, Moody’s rating agency downgraded Greek bonds for the second time in the past five months, pushing interest rates on two-year Greek bonds to an astonishing 11.5 percent, nearly the same rate as for Pakistani bonds. Such high rates make it virtually impossible for Greece to raise the money necessary to make tens of billions in loan payments due in the coming weeks. The point here is of contagion. If the Greece rescue package is a one-off so be it, but how does the EU handle the whole thing? A Greece bailout challenges the ability to handle all the risk and highlights that. A Greece rescue surely buys time…but the question is…. does it buy that time or merely lease it?” The menace of a Greek default shows that there is something wrong in the institutional architecture of the European Union; As a result the EU now faces a dramatic dilemma. According to the Treaty a bail-out for Greece is forbidden; but if the EU does nothing, a Greek default will endanger the entire Monetary Union. The root of the dilemma lies in the Maastricht Treaty itself for, while it established a well-designed Monetary Union, it was almost silent on the governance of the European economy The EMU as it stands, if not followed by an Economic Union, risks creating a harsh level of political divergence among its members – witness the present tension between Germany and Greece – which could lead to its eventual collapse. We are still in a bear market. Those who say otherwise would do well to remember what happened in 2007, before the downward trend began. It was the first down leg of Primary cycle wave one of this secular bear market which started in 2000…. we are presently in the final stages of primary second wave up correcting the drop from this Primary cycle first down wave….when the third Primary cycle down wave begins …it will be the most fowl most destructive and most deflationary wave we will experience in our lifetime. And finally just check the last times we had hung parliaments in the UK , 1929, 1974'sh around the oil crisis, we are due one now and will get it, watch this space....

WJKK WJKFF I personally know some of the guys who were involved in the 90's and have great respect for some of things they did. I agree there should be a group but on the quite if you know what i mean, nothing to boast about, just do the necessary when need be, bit like the jewish mosad. We are decades away from it but will need it at some point.

Great news, it would be great to see for one of these channels to go back home and show a few programmes relating to punjabi culture and sports such as hockey,kabbadi,wrestling...big lack of this on the sikh channel at present.

Puran Singh's Century-old Advice To Sikhs Posted by Maple Leaf Sikh in General, History, Literature The digitization of books has created a whole new way for Sikhs to access their history. I've stumbled onto a lot of historical Sikh literature that I had never heard of. For example, through Google's Book Search function, I discovered a tourist guide to Punjab from the 1880's (here's an excerpt on visiting Amritsar). Over the holidays, I found a scanned version of a first edition of The Life and Teachings of Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur. It was written by Puran Singh and published by The Khalsa Agency in Amritsar in 1908. Puran Singh has a way with words like no other Sikh author I've ever encountered. His books The Spirit Born People and The Ten Masters are essential readings for anyone interested in Sikhi. In his book on Guru Tegh Bahadur he writes: He looks upon the world with that far-seeing vacant eye with which a mariner, having lost his boat, looks upon the broad sea, seated on a rock in the middle dashed by the waves of the angry sea. The world to him is lost in the constant vision of the higher Reality of its soul. There is an intense spirit beating within his heart, which weeps ard cries at the sight of a man who is lost in the tempest of passions and remembers not the glorious life of his beyond this little life and the glorious inheritence of his in ideals of God, Love, and Truth. He is a high abstraction in the love of God, and whenever a single thought of the world lowers his consciousness from those ethereal heights, he at once sings of God-consciousness and soars again."Remember thy God, remember thy Lord, this is thy one duty, thy only duty," says he. However, what I really want to share is his opening introduction. The words are 100 years old, but just as or probably more relevant today. Sikhism is a wonderful power that has been put in the soil of the Punjab and the flesh and blood of the Punjabis. I raise a warning note, lest the forgetful men may sleep over again on the verities of the sacred faith preached by the Sikh Gurus, and lest they may only apparently continue the babbling of the mere letters in delirium. The time has come that the life of man should be, awakened to its natural position of the Master Witness of Nature, realising afresh the Law of life, for the good of himself and the whole Society. "My I'd comes when I see the moon," "They are like dogs and hogs, who live on this earth with heads and eyes and hearts and consecrate them not to God." "Live in God or do not live at all." "Know thyself." The Gurus have preached this and let us justify them by our daily conduct. Let us justify them and their beautiful teachings and their still more glorious life, by our life of love and dedication. In their honor and memory, let us make this Punjab, by living nobly, the "golden land where no monuments exist to Heroes but in the daily thoughts and deeds of men." Let all the individuals of the nation be the living and moving temples of God. All Truth is alike. It is one and the same everywhere. Only men are needed to realise it and bear witness to it in their own soul. Unless, I am alive to Truth, all writings preaching Truth are meaningless to me. Unless I have some sort of the Hero's character, the life of a Hero has no lesson for me. Therefore, the true act of following any prophet is to evolve another prophet out of myself. It is to travel along the road taken by the prophets and the victory of faith is achieved, when we scale up the same heights as reached by them and see things as they saw, and read things as they road. Rhetoric availeth not, even learning and scholarship toil in vain. It is a simple inner reaction, wrought by acting upon the best and highest in us, that furnishes us with a new standpoint, an original view-point of looking upon things. "To see through God's eyes is knowledge." The world of misery, trouble and pain and death is gone and I see God everywhere. I become twice-born then. My father, mother, wife, master, servant, city, home, country, life, death, joy, sorrow, are all resolved into "the Eternal Me," the God, the One Reality. Nothing but God is. Men of such high realisation and such ample and broad life and experience were our Gurus, the Masters of man. Let us sit at their feet, with respect and veneration, to receive that light from them which may open our eyes and make us fresh and alive to the presence of God. But friend ! Beware! Our love for them is apt to change into an unhealthy zeal which, while trying to build the magnificent superstructure of love's and devotion's external show, digs only the grave of the whole Church of Love within. Beware! our faith is apt to take the shape of hatred for others beliefs. Our gratitude to our heroes is apt to degrade into a foolish obedience to the letter of the Truth they lived, when sonship does become idle and bankrupted in the false pride of their fatherhood. Our missionary zeal is likely to change into a morbid tendency of reforming others instead of ourselves. Instead of vindicating the Truth preached by our masters we mar and jeopardise Truth, because of our non -realisation of the Facts which came into their inner spiritual experiences. Instead of Life, we only have mockeries in the form of our prayers, and talks and boastings. Stop these mockeries and do not talk but live. Do not be anxious to save Sikhism. Rest assured that Sikhism can take care of itself. Your only anxiety should be to save YOURSELF.

Admins jeeo,Kindly remove this thread as it has incorrectly made a supporter darhshan sing, and you can verify that just like bloom has on this forum.I have no intention to support anyone. I was dormant only rasied concerns but have inadvertantly been labelled as a darshan singh supporter., and it is incorrect.

To all including five ones: Thanks Bloom for taking time out to check my posts, love you all the same, maybe now I can make my closing points which are: 1. Protest outside the Gurdwara will have make a mockery of yourselves in front of up coming innocent Sikh youth and innocent sangat , tell me how fruitful or fare is this to them? 2. Our approach has to be different, face to face with darshan singh, bring him and any of his supporterss on a platform like the akj singhs did in Canada did with one of his followers. This wasn't so long ago and it was most professionally done. By carrying out such actions we emerge as professionals and the innocent sangat learns from it. Innocent sanagt is your joe average upcoming sikh in the western world who mostly goes to the Gurdwara once week for langar or whatever and he/she hasn't a clue about the SGGS/Dasm Granth debate at all, but goes to the Gurdwara anyway. 3. We live in a country of people whose civilization is way advance then us as maskeen Jee's used to mention in his Kathas " angrezz budhaa heeaa budhe ,bohat lame sochh socheda nee" We have to asks ourselves what have we learned and how these people deal with similar issues.These goras have rules ¾ of this planet with their soche and inelligence.It's about time we learn something from them,by doing so and using such an approach you will most likely get somewhere. 4. Pendo type action of protesting without due diligence to the wider innocent sangat in my opinion is wrong and exactly what darshan types most probably want to see, us Sikhs make a mockery of ourselves in the media against each other.The consequences if there was kirpan than came out stabbed someone, the PR against it would make a mockery of our kakkar in the British public in an instant. While there are those that are to educate Goras of who we are , what are our values, morals all that effort would be wasted. 5. The saddest thing out of it all is that in my entire life it's the first time I ever heard about a Gurdwara being bricked by a Sikh, and I really do hope it's the last.Mahraj hazara hazoor SGGS was inside this Gurdwara or not?? 6. Final point in Sikh history there have been many people like Darshan singh, they come and go Khalsa will reamin highly in chardi kala , Khalsa taa maryaaa nehee much sakdaa , darshan singh types have got no chance at all my friend.

It does matter bloom , and you have the wrong end of the stick, sorry to dissapoint, because I haven't and I rest my case..

"Bloom prove to me one line from my postings on this forum for the last 6 years where I have supported Darshan singh: admins please take note here, u have no control over these jodehs

Thanks bloom it's crystal clear, from your posts how much kamai of shabad you must have done to make accusations and judgments. GPS, No contradictions, I just stated the fact and it remains so, I must go into my dormant leave you intelligent guys to figure out the solutions.

See the thing is bloom I have to luv you too as well as Khalsa otherwise what you ask me to repeat like a parrot isn't worth a cent on your cut and past action. The same goes for you.

Thanks bloom, for your kind words, luv u too!!!

Guys slow down, I won't be posting about this anymore, rest assured I am sure the admins must be aware of the most recent registeress are really great in the way they approach things. If u read my posts slowly and other previous posts from my profile history , I have never been on the side of Darshan singh at all, your young minds has got itself in the twist here. All I am saying that there are bigger challanges than an old borha like Darshan Singh.If we're not mature enough to realize and seek them then I see myself wasting time posting here. I don't post often, only at critical times, I will go dormant again as it should hopefully stop the slandering. I must also apologize for waking up to this forum too and causing grief to the admins. Thanks to all those for all the slander given, I hope may Guru sahib bless you with even more kirpa and wisdom and maturity, you'll know what i mean when u come back to this forum in about 10 years.

I drove past the broadway Friday evening, there were police riot vans and cars all over the shop, bystanders watching Sikh youths barracking a Gurdwara, it was a pitiful site. Whatever Prof Darshan Singh's views on the Dasam Granth, I honestly can't believe the Guru's would ever have allowed their Sikhs to intimidated a Gurdwara beacuse someone was about to start kirtan, if there is a historical presedence for this, I'd love to know. With regards to Prof Darshan Singh's categorization as tankiya, having just returned from Punjab, I can honestly tell you one thing, there are a number of individuals which should be above him in the list people who should be excommunicated: The before mentioned KPS Gill Badals The Gurdwara Pardhaans which threatened the widows of '84 The Gurdwara Pardhaans which gave Tytler a saropa The Sikh doctors which advertise spend 50,000 on an ultra scan now, and save 25 lack later The Sikh coppers which have rapped and murdered The Sikh drug smuglers The Sikh owners of moonshine shops The Sikh human traffickers It's a pretty long list as you can see, for me a 75 year old man doing kirtan, may warrant being on that list, or may not, but we need get a grip. In Punjab, we have the highest rates or female feticide, alcolism, drug addiction, domestic violence, ecological pollution, suicides. In 1972 Punjab spent 27% of it's GNP on education, today it's 2%. Bengal has over 5,000 public libraries, Punjab has 6. Now, is a 75 year old man's views on the Dasam Granth the biggest issue aflicting us, I think not.

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee ke Fateh Many congratulations to the vigour and aggression of the sikh youth in ensuring prof darshan singh didn't perform at the Gurdwara. Listen to yourselves, the outcome Gurdwara bricked by a Sikh, brilliant in front of Muslim PCSO's wonder what they're thinking?? if there was full blooded confrontation and kirpans got out , and some one got injured by a kirpan , this would have been just the PR needed for us to ensure the Kirpan gets a ban in the public place. If that had happened what would you're aggression achieved for the Khalsa Panth?? My kid who is 11 years old was asking me what is happening Dad why is this happening at the Gurdwara? How do I answer my Kid? KPS Gill will most likely travel to the Geneva representing the UN, I wonder how many of such youth from last night ,with the same aggression,will make an effort to go there and protest and ensure he doesn't speak either, he is responsible of 100000 plus deaths of our own Sikh brothers?? Before anyone labels and bashes me as a darshan professor supporter , I'm not and don't agree with him at all, he made a mistake in the panth a very big one, but surely our approach is not mature in this matter and it needs to be better than last night. We're living in a country that has ruled 3/4's of the world and still has significant influence, have we not learned anything from them. I apologize in advance s I believe the approach was totally wrong and should be different, mature, intelligent in dealing with darshan singh, we have behaved here like pendhos and believe it's not correct. Final question ,Don't forget we say in our daily ardas "tere bhanee sarbat da bhall" is darshan singh included or excluded here? Dhir mal never gave the SGGS he had to Guru Gobind Singh Jees, the singhs asked Guru Jee we can take it by force , did Guru Jee allow that force , aggression to take place.??