Only five

What are you doing currently in regards to meditating?

Seems to me you have been spending some time watching 3HO videos. All this about sitting in a certain position, holding a hand certain way, having fingers in a certain way, breathing techniques, focusing eyes on this point that point........to simply put it is a bunch of rabbit out of a hat. You are wasting your time on things that lead you no where. Satguru says focus your eyes on Gurbani and see the darshan of Vaheguru. Sitting or standing keep your focus on the Shabad and let the Prakash of Vaheguru come before your eyes with dedication and contemplation.

Basically, Gurbani will lift your spirits up. Devote your time in reading Gurbani, following Gurbani and in return Guru Sahib will run 1000 steps toward you. No need to use harsh words or tell others how to conduct themselves. Get up and change the negativity that lies in you by devoting time with Gurbani. Insecurity lies in you. Some say it can't be that simple, but it is that simple. Simran (reading Gurbani/singing Gurbani/contemplating over Gurbani, repeating Vaheguru, repeating a Shabad over and over, repeating Mool Mantar), Seva and honest living by Guru Sahib's guidance and your mind will be cool and calm no matter what someone says or does to you.

How should they be handled? Do you have any suggestions.

I have seen these Sant followers crew, where one of the followers wife is worshipping Sita. She talks about how beautiful she looks in the photo and goes on and on. They keep such role models. If you don't know about Sita read up on her and then ask yourself if she should be considered even a role model, forget about admiring her and worshipping her. These youth and young adults have completely lost the plot. Yet these are the people glamorized by others because they wear a dummalla and dress like their Sants and Babas. This Sant follower mentality has to be challenged at every point and turn. Sooner or later the sangat will wake up and smell what these Babas were really cooking.

Exactly!!!! The Sant followers are trying to make others like them, but we are not even anything like them. I have Sant ji's photo up and so do I have the photo of the Gurus. Not to worship and not to build a shrine like the Sant followers. But to remind myself who needs to be given respect for the service they did for the Khalsa Panth. I have other Gursikhs pictures up as well, but never have I worshipped the photo or built shrines to beg before them. Sant ji is the Jathedar of Taksal. Sant ji gets a lot of credit, but listen to his speeches and he never took any credit for anything. If he was not gupt right now the memorial with Sant ji's name would not have Sant ji's name on it. He would have told the sangat put our fathers name on it as he gave the servant the Shakti to take on the dusht. It started with Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj (Taksal) Singho, once again we are being robbed of our culture. Our SIkhi culture tells us that a leader (Jathedar of Taksal; Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa) sits higher as he will be teaching you Gurmat. The Jathedar (a true Jathedar who is not a puppet) will be making decisions and these decisions are to be respected. Now who has given these babas any leadership? They took it upon themselves to be called leaders and then created a following. Sant ji attached sangat to Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj and in the hazoori of Maharaj sat with the sangat on the same level. Only when he was doing katha, speeches did he stand or sit higher as every kathavachak and person giving speeches in a Gurdwara does. And anyone show us where a shrine has been built for Sant ji where a person can go beg and ask for material things from? If Sant followers are so against Sant ji sitting higher (Jathedar of DamDami Taksal), then they should walk into Canadian court rooms and demand that the judge sit on the same level as the rest. Why do they get up when a judge enters a room and only sit down after the judge is seated. The judge has earned the title as they know the law of the land and are respected for this service. It is a show of respect and is not a form of worship. Building shrines of Babas and begging before them for material things that will pop up out of mid air is worshipping a Baba. Sant followers are trying anything and everything to justify there wrong doings.

I just took a look on the forum and two old threads have been brought back in the light because the Sant followers felt really attacked by what I stated of their Nanaksar jatha. It shows how dedicated they are to cultism and how bad they really want to promote such behaviours without anyone challenging their actions. A recent thread went up where Sant ji is being described as Shaheed in 1984. Not a single Taksal Singh wrote anything in favour or against calling Sant ji as Shaheed. And neither do you see me writing anything against the post as my views differ on the topic. Yet the Sant followers and their chela on this forum blame me for having a cultist attitude.

It's Baba Mentality. I have seen Nihang Singhs put down a photo of a Gurmukh before shastar, but never seen the actual Taksal jatha worship any Baba shrine or make a Baba shrine or even influence such behaviour. In india the Sikh community saw the raising of Sant Isher Singh ji;s photo in a Palki and it was treated as Idol worship. These are the main Nanaksar people doing this behaviour. Taksal is against such behaviour even of the Guru's photo. In the past I was accused of being a manmukh for not agreeing with Gurmukh Singh's actions when Singhs were doing satkar of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj. But today that is being used against me as if I am a taksal Singh. These two faced people have no stand anywhere. Where the shoe fits they switch in that direction in a split second. And the reason why they switched there mind was after talking to a different Baba from a different jatha who they think is a higher baba than others...................lol..............again all these years on forums and with Babas has really made them lose the plot. I have no clue what Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa views were on Bhai Gurmukh Singh jumping into the fire. But I didn't let that effect the decision of what I have been saying along. Yet the Sant follower will twist words and accuse me of being cultist. In fact the Sant follower has nothing to label me as so he even tried to force me to believe in Bhai Gurmukh Singh's actions by emotional blackmail. It's really disgusting the lengths some go to label others. Masands were doing many wrongs at the time of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj, but do we blame Guru Sahib? Nanaksar people have been calling Sant Isher Singh ji as Guru Nanak Dev ji for when he was here. The recording of some ghost is all taken at face value and no analytical approach is being taken. One person's views fad with that person, but Nanaksar has kept this up throughout their jatha and sangat and if you do not agree with such statements you are slandered and harassed. But I have never been harassed for not believing in Bhai Gurmukh Singhs actions were right by Taksal jatha or Singh. In fact I was harassed by a Sant follower, who speaks out against Taksal, Nihangs and AKJ. Worshipping of Babas and making shrines is the problem, but political people cut it out to be a jatha war and really take threads off track. Here is another good thread ruined because the Sant followers bow at the feet of such manmat actions.

A perfect example of this Baba mentality is openly displayed by the Nanaksar people. In one of there centre they have a whole separate room for their Baba to be worshipped that has passed on. Sure they have Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji there, but that is just for formality sake. The real meditating, begging, bowing with the head and mind happens in the Babas room. You need anything, a boy, a car, a house, suffering many pains in life etc.............go to the Babas room, bow to his shrine with your head and mind, then ask. Open a Akhand Paath and this Babas shrine will deliver to you what you need. How in the world can these people ever do Katha of Krishna Avatar, where Gurbani says don't worship Krishna and ask him, but ask Guru Sahib? I don't understand how these people do Akhand Paath where Gurbani strictly forbids what these people are doing. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji at these centres has been made into a book. Bow, decorate the throne, do Chaur Sahib, ritually read, and then put Guru Sahib to bed. And continue this routine everyday. Yet countless Sikhs go there to get blessed. Its really a sad state that Sikhs are in today.

Do not stand for a second with these Sant followers and their Sant. You may be alone, but at the end Guru Sahib will do kirpa and bring you home safe and sound. When a house needs to be cleaned the whole family sits down, but only one or two stay standing to take on the chores.

To tackle this you need to hit at the heart of the problem. Badal without votes is a nobody and his puppets will fall with him. Who gives Badal votes? Who scares the general naïve public in Punjab and abroad. It's none other than Badals henchmen, best know as Babas. Badals gets votes and these dera Babas get a lavish lifestyle. It is a win win for these people. Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa took out these middle men (babas/Sants). Sant ji challenged all of them and they had nowhere to run other than to the central government at the time; Congress. Neither can it be said all that joined with Sant ji and who were called Sants joined against the cause of getting rid of Babas. But Majority of the Sants that did join did not for a second become a middle man between Vaheguru and the atma. They stayed as students as Sant ji did. Currently Singhs are doing just that, but there is resistance being faced by these Sant followers and their Babas. Money from abroad is being sent to help the Baba by the Jackals out here, who are gathering money from the naïve sangat to save their Babas dera. They get told these fancy stores how the money is being spent on schools and hospitals, but its all spent on more security for the Babas.

They can issue all the Hukams they want. Actually issuing Hukams has worked in the favor of the puppets master because they do not explain why the Hukam was issued. The Sikhs around the world get frustrated and completely ignore what Sri Akal Takht Sahib says. So it works in the favor of the Sant followers and their Babas. A concrete explanation must be given with the Hukams, instead of just saying it is beadbi. It will set the Sant followers and their Babas straight. Remember there are enemies from within (Jackals).....they seem to be doing the greater good, but in reality their actions and decisions split the Khalsa Panth even more. Never back such political movements of any organization. Nirmat is the way to win over the sangat.

Listen to Sukhmani Sahib when sleeping. Have the path on repeat all night. This will help clear your subconscious. During the day don't watch any tv shows. The shows only increase vikaar in a person. If you want to know whats going on in the world then go online and read the news. Incorporate simran and seva into your life, and increase the amount of path you do a day and/or pick a Bani and contemplate over it for at least one hour. Avoid places and people that indulge in the vikaars openly and don't see anything wrong with indulge in them. Don't buy into the idea of moderation is the key. This is the speech of a trapped person and they don't know any better. To control the excess energy in the body (withdrawal), some say do yoga, run, exercise, etc. These are all limited in fixing the problem. It is like taking a Tylenol for an infection. This excess energy needs to be harnessed and Guru Sahib can only help with this. So this means read Gurbani with complete focus when you feel it coming on. Gurbani will cool the mind and the energy will work in your favour.

So are you going to even attempt to answer my questions by looking at Gurbani? I'm not scared if someone challenges what I write. I have a lot to say about the other thread, but it has been already summarized my Guruvah on a different thread. He said it very nicely. Let's not waste time on immaterial issues. Lets get the ball rolling here, why waste time.

Then you should not have started this thread in the first place. It is obvious you started this thread to lay out what you believe in sargun and nirgun and once another goes deeper into what sargun and nirgun is then back off and make a political statement like you did above. Gurbani has multiple meanings!! Here is a short Sakhi for you. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj asked the Singhs to repeat all of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj in a split second before he takes off on his horse. All were shocked and were much like you how can that be done. So one person started and said..............Ik Onkar Satgur Parsad........and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj got on his horse and took off. How many different medicines did you see now? Due to your personal failings you like to think Gurbani is relative and for the same reason when explaining sargun and nirgun they explain in relative terms. It would have been a nice discussion both would have learned something, but I guess politics is always there to save everyone.

Can you explain what Satgur Parsad means. What is Satgur? Who is Satgur and how many different forms does Satgur have? How many of these forms is visible? Does Gurbani call this creation as Satgur or a form of Vaheguru? Does the Mool Mantar help in defining Sargun and Nirgun? If so, how does Mool Mantar help? By saying Vaheguru is everywhere and in everything then is that any of the two or both (Sargun and Nirgun) or is it none according to Gurbani? Is Sargun permanent and what about Nirgun is it permanent? Does Sri Sukhmani Sahib answer this question for us or do we need to look else where in other religious scriptures? What does Vaheguru being everywhere really mean? In essence even in creation there is nowhere so where is everywhere? In essence there is no everything, so what is he in? Once again is Sargun permanent or creation? Contemplate over Gurbani and see what Satguru is saying. Indra consulted many on what is atma, but at the end it was Satgur who gave the answer and Indra became mukht after falling at the feet of Satgur.

You are looking at it all wrong. Think about what is the difference between Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj and a stone idol. Instead of posting in anger here, you should really ask your Guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. As Buddha said and as your Guru said, experience the knowledge by doing the hard work yourself and you will appreciate it. Have patience and the answer will come to you through dedication and devotion.

Before speaking about nirgun saroop, explain what it is in a different thread. The Sant followers believe they know what nirgun means, but they don't even have a clue. What is known as Sargun by Gurbani is called Nirgun by these Sant followers. It's pathetic, all these years wasted on a forum and going to Sants the sant followers learned nothing. All they learned was how to argue in cunning ways to fool the sangat. There cannot be bigger Pandits than them Even Indra realized his mool after being stuck on what is Sargun and Nirgun with Satguru's kirpa, but the Sant followers say Indra found his mool through maya. Who can be more ignorant than them These Sant followers have Gurbani at there finger tips. Most amusing part is that Nirgun is explained in Mool Mantar, but they never hear it. The Sant followers base there knowledge of Sargun and Nirgun on relativity. They don't understand there is only ONE so where is the other? Then they make the mistake of saying..........so there is only one, then no one is doing disrespect of Gurbani. It's like talking to a two year old. Then the two year old Sant follower says Akal Purakh is in everything so it is Saroop of Vaheguru. It's a pathetic attempt to pollute the mind of the sangat. And to top it off these Sant followers question the sangat.............can't you see Vaheguru in the dusht Chandu Shah. Better yet couldn't Guru Sahib see Vaheguru in Chandu Shah before sending him off to be killed? This is the knowledge these Sant followers have on Sargun and Nirgun. Nirgun cannot be explained by these Sant followers. All they see is the maya and call it nirgun. These are the people that will bring back idol worship in Sikhi (as there associates udhasis did) and once again they will be put out of their misery by the Khalsa Panth.

Honestly, they do all this studying, go to countless Sants, and have countless debates with others, yet they don't understand what ALIVE means when referring to Gurbani. So who has built inner eyes to see Gurbani, them or the child like innocent nature of a Sikh who follows his Gurus instructions? Once again I hope Satguru does kirpa on these people and strikes them with his spiritual wisdom.

Singho today they are telling us that we are not to do proper satkar of Gurbani and tomorrow they will tell us if your Gurbani (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj) is ALIVE as you say, then why can't it defend itself from being thrown in wells and being burnt by dusht. Follow the directions that Satguru gave us and Maharaj will do kirpa. I come out as some fanatic in these discussion, but in reality I give people many chances to correct their disrespect toward Gurbani before taking action. Honestly, I beg at their feet to stop the disrespect before taking action. Our Gurus have taught us nirmat so das is using this tool.

When Gurbani is tattoed on a body part will the body part be left at the door before going into the bathroom? So Gurbani is going into the bathroom, but some posters cannot realize that Bani is the Guru. Satgur kirpa kar so they can realize this very important point. If I am contradicting myself and being a hypocrite for giving utmost respect for the written form of Shabad Guru. Then I am only a hypocrite of this kind because my 10 Gurus from Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj did not teach me any better. The Gurus slept on floors while the Adi Granth in written form slept on beds. The Gurus sat on the ground and Adi Granth sat on the highest Takht. The Gurus walked and the Adi Granth was carried on the head. The Gurus taught to protect the Adi Granth with your life, while the Gurus gave their lives to protect the Adi Granth from being disrespected. The Gurus disowned their own son to keep Gurbani unchanged and Adi Granth was given the status of Guru. The Gurus sat on hot plates while Adi Granth sat on nice material and a fan was waved over it. So don't curse me for this level of respect, but curse at the ten Gurus that taught me such nonsense. Curse them and teach these 10 Gurus that Vaheguru is everywhere and not just the Adi Granth that they gave so much respect to and bowed to and gave their lives for. Teach these 10 Gurus that when going to the bathroom that Shabad Guru is there too and why discriminate of putting one on the highest Takht and the other is sitting on the floor. Teach these 10 Gurus they are living in duality. I can continue, but lets stop doing nindiya of the Sant followers as they are teaching the Gurus how to treat Gurbani in written form. These Sant followers are the true Gurus and the 10 Gurus were living life in duality. Listen to Dasam Bani and you will hear Maharaj say the ignorant will become the teachers of the world. This forum is a perfect example how they have become the teachers.

1. If you don't know what the tattooed Gurbani is saying then please ask, but don't make assumptions that others are jumping the gun and making accusations. 2. Gurbani is not the rays of the Sun (Akal Purakh), but IS the SUN! Very simple read Gurbani and Gurbani tells us there is no difference between Guru Sahib and Akal Purakh. 3. General question to people who think like this poster. Would you treat your loved one in the same way and place that arm will go and has been in the past? Don't worry I'll expand on this question further on. If the body is already dirty from the inside then Guru Sahib made a mistake by saying cleanse the outside before doing nitnem and naam simran. 4. Gurbani is always kept in a clean place because it is not just simple writing, but YOUR Guru. Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji slept on the ground and Ad Granth was placed on the bed. Learn from your Guru. Highest respect is given to Gurbani. If the body is already dirty from the inside then Guru Sahib made a mistake by saying cleanse the outside before doing nitnem and naam simran. 5. One day a person will come along and say Gurbani only means bunch of word to me so I can take a pothi Sahib to the bathroom and read from it for amusement. Then I can claim......what do you know....maybe one day the person will come on the path of Gurmat from reading Gurbani in the bathroom while doing his business. :stupidme: Bani is the Guru and it must be treated as Guru. Again Sri Guru Gobind Sahib ji has left orders on how to treat Gurbani. If you can't follow these orders then simply don't bother having Gurbani. To keep Gurbani respected many lives have been lost. And many more will be lost with big smiles on their faces to keep the respect for Gurbani alive. Ask yourself, why did Baba Deep Singh fight with his head off? It surely wasn't for no silver coin. What is the point of living if the endorsement of Gurbani being disrespected is openly flaunted by those who call themselves spiritual and religious? Your Guru did not write Gurbani on his arm, but he kept it on the highest platform and then gave Gurbani the utmost respect.

In order to get a tattoo a person hair needs to be removed in the area where the tattoo is going. So to put Satgur's Bani on that area shows how the person had no good intentions and did not even read the Bani that was going on as a tattoo. Reading the Bani she got tattooed it is actually saying step on to the path of Gurmat (example keep your hair uncut) and don't pay any attention to your mind. Let your mind speak, but keep your focus on the Bani of Satguru. Has she done this even at a preschool level?

No need to close threads..............I said what I wanted to say......if another wants to have a go at me.........does not matter as those words hold no weight. :biggrin2:

Guruvah, you are wasting your time. A person that cannot treat all equally by discussion without twisting others words does not deserve to be entertained. I have seen these people bowing at fake Sants feet and kissing the fake Sants, but when it comes to other humans they use these cunning tactics. The fake Sants add more fuel to these people to continue with the cunning methods. An addict cannot recognize the addiction or what is the solution.