Only five

Interesting. You are still denying to make any approach about jhatka.....if you actually believe you are true, then go for it. Protest outside hazoor sahib, if you have a jatha, then get some wooden signs 'Animal Proctection!' 'I demand goats not to be jhatkaed, four times a year'. Unless your willing to go on your own, then I wish you the best of wishes you some back untouched....... There are ways to confront practices and stubborn people that won't let go of their ways. Storming someone is what fools do.

Ok. Then if you think you have found an ideal solution, why not present it to the current jathedar of Hazoor Sahib? It's like whenever someone mentions to tell the truth openly, you back off. Do you lack money? do you want a jatha to go with you? cus clearly if you want this issue (btw the are many many many many more issues in the panth) resolved then book a ticket. Try contacting them in person. Unless both you and the sangat in hazoor sahib have skype.......then maybe. Hahaha Hate Nihangs. Come on. Why would I hate Nihangs The ones that sit there tuned on drugs all day are not Nihangs, there nangs You don't hate the sinner, hate the sin. This solution is know to the Nihang Singh. It has been presented, but how can you get through to a brick wall. I have even heard one of the Jathedar's current or previous one has said what they do is wrong and in due time this practice will be put back into the right context it was prescribed.

Am I speaking against it. Really that's what you guys got from it. i am clarifying it and what it actually is and what it destroys. Like I said people say the Jhatka tradition is done to abolish Muslim halal ways, but I showed it didn't even touch that because....well that piece is there for everyone to read. I don't want to keep repeating it over and over. Jhatka tradition is being used in the wrong way to justify everyday desire of the tongue. Jhatka is permitted as a last option when every plant and leaves have been aten and nothing else is left. For survival needs. Not for the desire of the tongue. Also the knew thing, it's being done so the person gets tough by seeing blood and won't run away from war on sight of it. These foolish ways is what I'm against. Gurbani is what makes you tough and fills that body with shakti to destroy your enemy with one blow. A Gursikh if you look at his daily meal consist of daal, salt, roti, and water. Eating simple. And leave the body building part out. Are the Nihangs Singh running out of daal, sabzi, and roti. NO! For the tongue they perform this useless tradition. Think in context. Jhatka is useful for survival needs. And the blood being applied to the sword is just a whole topic on it's own. lSo shouldn't we then think whom should we follow. very much

there is something known as shaheedi ... what are u trying to say that were victems not shaheedis ??? if they are murdered we feel sorry for them i dont know what to say ... but i m proud of bhai taru singh bhai mani singh not pity .... ur moving in very wrong direction ... and murdered is no way a word for a shahhed ... ohna ne band band kattayea sanu sikh rakhan layi ... na ke ohna da joor nahi see ... kehdech himmat see sahibjada ajit singh nu jungch maar sakda oh ess layi nahi shahhed hoye ke ohna di shaster videyach koi kami see yaa oh lad nahi sakde see ... oh taan chutkich dunia khatam kar sakde see ... u used a very bad example here very bad .... NO man LOL, I am not saying they were murdered. You completely missed the point. The point was in the way they were martyred. In the way there body was burtually cut. Obviously there souls were pure. But the body in the eyes of a human is seen as horriblely tortured. Now just because the body was burtually tortured do we say they must have done wrong to deserve such punishment. No! And in the context of the vaar by Bhai Gurdas ji is completely different in the way it is intrepreted as in the way you describe it. The example was to show what you were leading to. Stay in context.

Bhenji that so true havn't heard of one brahmgiyani that ate meat or tells other's it's alright to eat meat.

No one is upset. Just showing fallacy in the Jhatka way and other's are getting <Edited>. If I'm wrong then correct me. I'm not here to win arguements, but to present sides and discuss. Why does feelings have to get involved here. Can you present what Sant ji said. This would be great because then Jhatka can be seen in another way. Present everything about this topic and it can be discussed and analyzed by whoever wants too. Put everything on the table for everyone to see.

Jassa ji, I can present you a case where your way of thinking will be thrown out in a second. Matter of fact, i'm do it. Take a Gursikh, there are many and take in what way these pure souls were brutually murdered. Sawed in half, cut limb from limb. We do Ardas you know. Now do we look at this and say if these GurSikhs were cut like this and they followed Guru Sahib is the same going to happen to us. So should we not follow Guru Sahib. Please stay away from these ridicilous arguements. In the context the goat is speaking to the loin is completely different from your interpretation. Kindly give us your interpretation.

Also in the above videos in Bhai Gurdas ji Vaars it is explained a loin kills a goat and eats it. And how the goat laughs at the loin. Here it is This Shabad is by Bhai Gurdaas Ji in Vaars Bhai Gurdaas on Pannaa 25 sIh pjUqI bkrI mrdI hoeI hV hV hsI] seeh pajoothee bakaree maradhee hoee harr harr hasee|| A goat was caught by a lion and while about to die, it gave out a laugh. sIhu puCY ivsmwdu hoie iequ Aausir ikqu rhis rhsI] seehu pushhai visamaadh hoe eith aousar kith rehas rehasee|| The surprised lion asked why it was so happy at such a moment (of its death). ibnau kryNdI bkrI puqR Aswfy kIcin KsI] bino karae(n)adhee bakaree puthr asaaddae keechan khasee|| Humbly the goat replied that the testicals of our male progeny are crushed in order to castrate them. Ak DqUrw KwiDAW kuih kuih Kl auKil ivxsI] ak dhhathooraa khaadhhiaaa(n) kuhi kuhi khal oukhal vinasee|| We eat only wild plants of arid regions yet our skin is peeled and pounded. mwsu Kwin gl viF kY hwlu iqnwVw kauxu hovsI] maas khaan gal vadt kai haal thinaarraa koun hovasee|| I think about the plight of those (like you) who cut the throat of others and eat their flesh. grbu grIbI dyh Kyh Kwju AKwju Akwju krsI] garab gareebee dhaeh khaeh khaaj akhaaj akaaj karasee|| The body of both of the proud and the humble will become dust ultimately, but, even then the body of the arrogant (lion) is inedible and that of the humble (goat) attains the status of edible. jig AwieAw sB koie mrsI ]17] jag aaeiaa sabh koe marasee ||17|| All who came to this world have to die ultimately.(17)

Only five Ji, just because Sant Jarnail Singh Ji didnt do this practise he doesnt mean that he was against it. Listen to Giani Thakur Singh katha when he describes how jatha went to Hazzoor Sahib, and Sant Gurbachan Singh before they left told them that maryada of Hazzoor Sahib is different. But SantJi never said it was wrong. Neither did Sant Kartar Singh or Sant Jarnail Singh. Even last year, Guru Ji's Taksal was given sewa of the paath, but no-one from Taksal raised any objections about the Jhatka prac, even though they do not practice it themselves. Also get rid of the " I " think mentality. It will really help you. The Taksal says only meat is allowed if it is for survival need and every plant and leaves have been aten. Here is a video there is two parts to it. Sant Jarnail SIngh ji Khalsa had bigger things to deal with in his time. The freedom of Sikhs was at hand. To cause division between the panth at that time would have been a foolish thing to do.

In the shabad I pointed out in original post, where the sugar cane is being crushed it has already been pulled out of the ground. How come Guru Nanak Dev ji is telling everyone to look at the horror of what we are doing to the sugar cane when it is being crushed. So your theory is not even going with Gurbani. Yet meat eaters use this shabad to say look the sugar cane is suffering in pain. Here is the whole shabad so the rest can see what we are talking about. This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Maajh on Pannaa 142 mÚ 1 ] ma 1 || First Mehla: vyKu ij imTw kitAw kit kuit bDw pwie ] vaekh j mit(h)aa kattiaa katt kutt badhhaa paae || Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles, KuMFw AMdir riK kY dyin su ml sjwie ] khu(n)dtaa a(n)dhar rakh kai dhaen s mal sajaae || and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed. rsu ksu ttir pweIAY qpY qY ivllwie ] ras kas ttattar paaeeai thapai thai vilalaae || What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out. BI so Pogu smwlIAY idcY Aig jwlwie ] bhee so fog samaaleeai dhichai ag jaalaae || And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below. nwnk imTY pqrIAY vyKhu lokw Awie ]2] naanak mit(h)ai pathareeai vaekhahu lokaa aae ||2|| Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated! ||2|| Chatanga, by your saying the sugar cane died when it was cut, but by Guru Nanak Dev ji it dies after it is cut out and placed in the wooden rollers. Why else would it cry when it is being crushed.

Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa himself never ate meat. Why would he say killing an animal is right. And where does it say Guru Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji did this practice. Read this; Why would jhatka be permitted when these guys that want to eat meat use bani that says the sugar cane also suffers when being crushed to justify meat eating. Vegetables are also be chopped into bits and they must be crying, and suffering all the time. So why can we put vegetables throw this pain, but not an animal. For an animal we have to strike it with one blow. This does not make sense because if animals and vegetables are the same on the food line then we should be able to cut an animal however we choose, just as we do with vegetables. And this whole Muslims cut the throat slowly and let it bleed to death is a big so what. Didn't the vegetable suffer when we cut it bit by bit. Didn't the juices of the vegetable come out slowly, cutting it bit by bit. Why would Guru Gobind SIngh Sahib ji allow Sikh to cruelly cut one food(vegetables) and the other he would say the Muslims are making the animal suffer, so now on Sikhs have to eat meat when the animal is struck with one blow and killed. Why would Guru Sahib have a double standard when vegetarian food and meat is on the same line according to the meat eaters. Second arguement these guys like to present is that Muslims were making a sacrifice of the meat to God and reading prayers to make it pure to eat. In this sense to start jhatka does not make sense still. because the food still can be made a sacrifice to God doesn't matter, which way you cut the animal. Can't the mantra be said two or three minutes before they strike the animal with one blow to purifify the food. The only thing Jhatka gets rid of is cruelty of the animal by one blow. But according to the meat eaters in Gurbani the sugar cane is crushed and feels pain. So why be the hypocrite and cruelly let a sugar cane suffer, but not let an animal suffer. Why the double standard. Then last one they bring up is, jhatka was started to abolish the Muslim way of killing animals. What does it abolish that an animal is pure. This is already written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. That animal sacrifice is wrong, again already written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. As you can see above it doesn't solve this problem and if you say it does then you get labeled as a hypocrite for letting a vegetable suffer on the frying pan. 1. The arguement that vegetables/grain/fruit is the same as meat does not hold. 2. The jhatka way does not solve anything. 3. It proves that meat eaters have a double standard for meat and vegetables, but with the same tongue say both are the same. I say meat is only permitted if every other food on this plant disappears. Meat is only used as a survival need and nothing else.

To what you have wrote about her, I say she has given up on life. Which can occur due to failing in many task. Every task she probably attempted turned out not in her favor. And even the one's that did probably came back around and made her feel like a failure even more. A person that is depressed sometimes seeks for situations where she will fail again. It turn into a cycle for them. They get this mental block saying I am a failure and that's what I'm good at. So they try to achieve this failure over and over. Sounds horrible, I know, but it happens. A solution would be to change the envirnoment she lives in. Because this is conributing alot to her depression. Go visit a place where she has never been. Make sure it's filled with alot of people and it's all lit up. Taking her to an empty place would only make her feel more depressed. And if she is unwilling to go anywhere then show her a video of a place that is full of life and harmony(Harmindar Sahib). You got to make her realize there is more to life than what she is just living in. She's in her box and believes there is nothing else, but that box full of depression and failure. Another thing that will change her mind set is playing kirtan that she or you really like. There are countless shabads. And if her room is a mess, just clean it up yourself or tell her friends to do it. This will show in action that someone cares for her welfare, sometimes words don't get across as easily. Whatever way you do it, just make her realize there is more to life than her box. Open up that box to countless possibilities and opportunities. Wish you all the best and will do Ardas Chardikala

Jassa ji, I helped to identify the fallacies in the above article and in the jhatka tradition. If you believe there is something wrong with what I have wrote then you have every right to point out the wrong doing.

The Internet has provided a forum for free speech which is being abused by all and sundry to project their views with the finality of an intellectual whose research cannot be wrong. All writers, young and old, write in the superlative degree, presenting their views as "the only correct view", "the best book", "the worst case" and the like. Human fallibility has become non-existent. After the Tercentenary celebrations at Hazur Sahib, on the internet and in print magazines, it has become fashionable for Sikh intelligentsia to indulge in a superlative discussion about, "Goat Sacrifice at Hazur Sahib." I have been following this debate for a long time and I have observed that most of the debate is frivolous and those who do spend time on this subject do so without understanding the details of the phenomenon. Beyond all reasonable doubt let me authoritatively say and explain how this myth is a half-truth and more injurious than the lie. As a student of Gurmat, I am fully aware of the facts and practices of the Sikhs particularly of this region, who are called "Deccani Sikhs". Since the last four generations, I have lived in this region and therefore I am also one of them. What is the act of sacrifice? It is a religious ritual of killing (an animal or person) in order to propitiate a deity. This is strictly forbidden in Sikhism. The lives of the Ten Gurus and the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib have several crystal clear explanations. The shabads of Guru Granth Sahib are misquoted, misused and misinterpreted to propagate vegetarianism among the Sikhs by some intellectuals and by vested interests, particular those running deras. It is not fair to presume that Jhatka of goat is a sacrificial act at Hazur Sahib and other Unit Gurdwaras of the Deccani Sikhs. Since thousands of years, it is a custom of warriors of India to put the Tilak of blood to their weaponry on the occasion of Dashara and Holi. In these Gurdwaras, the tilak of blood is put to the weapons, not to Guru Granth Sahib or any other idol or photograph. Even innocent Sikh preachers toe the line, as either they are ignorant or they too want to appease the vested interests or they think vegetarianism will make them popular. Sikhs living in and around Hazur Sahib of the erstwhile Hyderabad State are the decedents who took Amrit in presence of Guru Gobind Singh Ji in the year 1708. Around 1830, the Sikh Army of Maharaja Ranjit Singh came to help the Nizam, who was the ruler of Hyderabad. This army was retained here as a Sikh Peace keeping Force, which had 14 Risalas (units) at all district headquarters with its Unit Gurdwaras. They held the then prevailing practices and rituals of the Sikhs of that period as a disciplined Armed Force. It is not fair to presume that Jhatka of goat is a sacrificial act at Hazur Sahib and other Unit Gurdwaras of the Deccani Sikhs. Since thousands of years, it is a custom of warriors of India to put the Tilak of blood to their weaponry on the occasion of Dashara and Holi. In these Gurdwaras, the tilak of blood is put to the weapons, not to Guru Granth Sahib or any other idol or photograph. Though it is not in consonance with Sikh philosophy, like many other practices that have crept into the Sikh way of life, this too requires sane intervention so that it can be stopped. Mere condemnation ad nauseam will not help stopping it. It is important that we see things objectively and rationally. From the point of view of Sikh image and Sikh practice, this has to be stopped, but this should be bracketed with many other practices and rituals which require serious steps. But there are so many rituals and festivals of other religions which are Celebration of the New Year of the Christian Era, Sammat new month Sangrand and Full moon day Pooranmashi. Are these all not anti-Sikh practices? Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilo...ead.php?t=24666 (Sacrifice at Hazur Sahib Myth & Truth) Guru Nanak Sahib in shabad number25 on pages 1289-90 has explained how the fools quarrel over vegetarianism and meat-eating. In 35 thirty five verses starting with "Pehla masaho nimiya maasai ander vas". "pihlW mwshu inMimAw mwsY AMdir vwsu", saying that, "First, the mortal is conceived in the flesh, and then he dwells in the flesh". Gurbani repeatedly reiterates that God is equally abiding in His Creation including food grains, water, vegetation, animal and human bodies. Gurbani strictly condemns sacrifices of animals for pleasing deities and offerings of eatables in fire for performing Havan, Yagyan, Lohri and other such festivities. On page number 1275 of Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Nanak Sahib has further explained the law of nature that, "Ek ji, kai jiyaan khahi ", "eyk jIA , kY jIAw KwhI" means "One life eats several lives". On page number 955, Guru Angad Sahib Ji further clarifies saying that, "Jiya ka ahar ji, khana yeho karey ", "jIAw kw Ahwr jIA Kwxw eyhu kryie]", meaning "God has made the creatures' food for other creatures." There is enough historical evidence that in the in the langar of Guru Nanak Sahib and Guru Gobind Singh, meat was cooked and served. As the sentiments of non-meat eaters were hurt, it was subsequently stopped. Thus, Guru Ka Langar has gone purely vegetarian and should be accepted and venerated by one and all. Since thousands of years, Jhatka is an Indian tradition of killing any animal with one stroke. In Assam, Rajasthan and some other north Indian regions, it is still prevailing. Halal meat is actually Zubah meat (half cut throat) which is halal (permitted) for the Muslims. This tradition is borrowed by them from Jewish religion's "Kosher meat". This sort of meat is specifically declared harram (forbidden-sinful) for the Sikhs in Sikh Rehat Maryada. The diktat to eat Jhatka meat was a revolt against the established custom of the time and also a step of rebellion against Muslim tyranny. Those who advocate vegetarianism among Sikhs is deliberately overlooking the provisions of Sikh Rehat Maryada, which clearly prohibits consuming Kuththa (halal meat) and does not in any manner prevent Sikhs from being non-vegetarians. It is the discretion and liberty of Amritdharis to consume meat, if they choose to do so. Also, any Sikh, who chooses to be vegetarian, is welcome to remain so, but it is foolhardy, naïve and wrong to attempt to amend the Sikh religious ethos according to this choice. Nanak Singh "Nishter" is a Hyderabad-based orator, writer and Urdu poet. He is a regular columnist of World Sikh News. He is an activist-academician making immense contribution to the social and cultural welfare of Sikh society. He is director of International Sikh Centre for Interfaith Relations. He may be contacted at nanaknishter@gmail.com This above article in my opinion is running away from the truth. Why would jhatka be permitted when these guys that want to eat meat use bani that says the sugar cane also suffers when being crushed to justify meat eating. Vegetables are also be chopped into bits and they must be crying, and suffering all the time. So why can we put vegetables throw this pain, but not an animal. For an animal we have to strike it with one blow. This does not make sense because if animals and vegetables are the same on the food line then we should be able to cut an animal however we choose, just as we do with vegetables. And this whole Muslims cut the throat slowly and let it bleed to death is a big so what. Didn't the vegetable suffer when we cut it bit by bit. Didn't the juices of the vegetable come out slowly, cutting it bit by bit. Why would Guru Gobind SIngh Sahib ji allow Sikh to cruelly cut one food(vegetables) and the other he would say the Muslims are making the animal suffer, so now on Sikhs have to eat meat when the animal is struck with one blow and killed. Why would Guru Sahib have a double standard when vegetarian food and meat is on the same line according to the meat eaters. Second arguement these guys like to present is that Muslims were making a sacrifice of the meat to God and reading prayers to make it pure to eat. In this sense to start jhatka does not make sense still. because the food still can be made a sacrifice to God doesn't matter, which way you cut the animal. Can't the mantra be said two or three minutes before they strike the animal with one blow to purifify the food. The only thing Jhatka gets rid of is cruelty of the animal by one blow. But according to the meat eaters in Gurbani the sugar cane is crushed and feels pain. So why be the hypocrite and cruelly let a sugar cane suffer, but not let an animal suffer. Why the double standard. Then last one they bring up is, jhatka was started to abolish the Muslim way of killing animals. What does it abolish that an animal is pure. This is already written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. That animal sacrifice is wrong, again already written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. As you can see above it doesn't solve this problem and if you say it does then you get labeled as a hypocrite for letting a vegetable suffer on the frying pan. 1. The arguement that vegetables/grain/fruit is the same as meat does not hold. 2. The jhatka way does not solve anything. 3. It proves that meat eaters have a double standard for meat and vegetables, but with the same tongue say both are the same. I say meat is only permitted if every other food on this plant disappears. Meat is only used as a survival need and nothing else.

I bet when the girls read these kind of post they have a good laugh. Not because it's funny, but how pathetic some are. You get these so called men whining like two year olds. I can't get a girl to like me. They don't like my dastar blah blah blah. Grow some NUTTZZZ. Instead of judging the grils have the guts to go talk to them like normal people. If your gunna sit in the corner and be that shy kid that just blushes when a girl passes by, then you got serious problems. When a good looking girls is in your presence you feel like your not worthy enough to even stand in her presence. Right!!!! And just wishing she doesn't look in your direction cuz then that brown face will turn red and sweat would be dripping from your face. Just a word of advice those are the girls that barely get approached by anyone because pretty much every other guy is thinking, I'm not good enough for her. A TrueSingh reading this crap would just laugh his <banned word filter activated> off. Like these guys can't even get past these tirvial things. How are they going to be able to wear the Bana with cofidents. And about that mom telling her son he won't get anywhere with uncut kes. He should ask her how far she got in life. Truly if my mom spoke to me like that, she never will cuz Sikhi is her life, but if she did she would have one less son, until she apologized for such crazy behaviour. Yes they are our elders, but we have higher spiritual parents that gave their lives so we can live as free Sikhs.

In this tuk Guru Sahib is saying read the other religions text to gain knowledge on there religions and what they are about. This will help you on your Sikhi path. You see this often these days, Muslims purposely trying to add a twist to the Koran so they can get someone to convert to Islam. Christian have done the same in many countries. Hindus have done the same. If that person had read the Koran/Bible/Vedas him/herself then you would be aware of the person's intention. Guru Sahib is saying don't be ignorant. Doesn't Hinduism have idol worship and in Sikhi this is completely forbidden for a Sikh.

The chatter comes from both sides, but more of it is coming from the women side. Last wedding I went to some fool was talking about drinking and how Guru Sahib has blessed him with alcohol everyday. This fool was sitting in darbar Sahib and saying this. He must have been in his 60's. The Babas are talking about alcohol and the youth punjabis are talking about which girl or guy they can pick up now or if the individual will be coming to the reception and how they can find out. There is no shame left in majority of these people; punjabis. A good idea would be to tell the Granthi to anounce if people don't stop talking then the Anand Karaj won't start. Then these fools will think in the respect of the two individuals getting married we better shut up. Well the one's with some diginty will.

I am trying to tell them THINK BEYOND SKIRTS...THERE ALSO LIFE THERE. These sikhs think that sikhi has KHATRA from Skirts. Grow up man. don't ignore the KAAM, Krodh, LOBH, MOH and MAYA. If you are married you can't control Kaam, If you are married and children too then you can't control MOH If you are married and want to earn more then you can't control Lobh (for money) becouse undubtly its essential for living. MAYA is again you control it only if you go in jungles. LAst the krodh... You all are suffering with that so never think you will or you have controlled it. FACE THE TRUTH. TRY to be normal INSAAN then try to be BHAGWAN I truly feel sorry for you. Forgive me, I never knew you were in such a state of mind. Hope Guru Sahib does kirpa on you. Your in a time of need and I laughed at you. Sorry man, didn't know your state of mind. Seriously take care and listen to some Gurbani, it'll help you take all the weight you are carrying off your shoulders.

LOL I'm done just having some fun with young Sikh now.

These afghana followers need to get their heads straight. This afghana guy has become these fools Guru. Monkey see monkey do and I'm not using this just as an expression

Do you know defination of BRAINWASHING... IF no then read Intensive, forcible indoctrination, usually political or religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic convictions and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set of fixed beliefs. Thats some thing is happening with sikh panth... without any target or any rivals Sikh are makeing them self ready for any battle. Wearing 5K's and feeling sitting on horse and saying Jaikaras. Didn't france say no turban in government buildings meaning 10 year old Sikh kids can't even get a education because of discrimination. Isn't United States trying to do the same, but in a less obvious way. They are trying to get a bill passed which will not allow a Sikh to wear a Turban in a driver license photo and other government id's. These are all targets of the Khalsa Panth. To win this court battles with the pen. The 5 K's were not just created to fight physical battles and was not just created for Guru Gobind Singh Sahib time. You seem like a smart guy, but just showed your ignorance. Also only one of the 5 k's is for self-defense. And if you look at that time Guns and other advanced weapons were being created. Surely Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji was well aware of this and would have given us a gun instead of kirpan for a kakkar if the 5 k's were created for just fighting wars. Or there would have been a Hukam to change a kirpan to a gun once guns were more advanced. But nothing of the sort. The only person you are fooling with your accusation that has no support is yourself. Take a read at the Dasam Granth and then come back here to agrue that the RSS is imposing a Granth on the Khalsa. What you can't understand is not false. And speaking of brainwashed. Everyone knows a person that cuts his hair and acts like the rest of the western society has been brainwashed to do it. You guys are trying to fit in so you can be accept as a normal person. You bend over in many ways just to be another person in the crowd. You adopt western culture, which is just political games with no truth and then call it the correct way of living. Political correctness is your Truth. The only way your going to make it in society is by kissing buts and the western culture has taught you the best way to do this. You wanna be liberal right. Well following Sikhi their is no traditional way and there is no moderate way. Sikhi is always with times and beyond your liberal western culture that you love so much because they allow you to drink in the same bar as the rest. What is truly shameful of your type is. You guys try to get into some clubs or bars and right at the doors you guys get kicked out. Given the excuse, you got runners on or to young. So go be the good sheep you are and run along before your white boss who's *** you kissed to get a job suspends you or kicks you out on the street. Your country. That's sad man you can't even realize you are under a dictatorship. And it's called Hindustan not India. The one's with trianglar hats run the show. They make you piss in your pants if you decide to go against them. Go read some Gurbani and understand the fact that Truth never changes. Post by post you expose your ignorance. Well since you live in India then your kissing congress <banned word filter activated>. Either way you come here or there people like you will bend in anyway to fit what the government says. I really feel bad for you man. You need True Singhs to come to your guys oppressed state. The very people that gave Hindus and your cowards to live without Muslim rulers are the ones you call nobodies. The only reason why you or any of your kind can talk freely is because of Singhs like Baba Deep Singh ji. Have some respect for the ones that saved your <banned word filter activated> from Muslim rulers. Seriously, there is a point where someone can spit trash from their mouth and you have pushed that limit. Honestly if this was face to face your face would be under my foot. Learn some respect. yeah, your the one with the logic. You don't even know the history. Here I'll tell you the whole reason why Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib ji gave his head for the Hindu religion in one sentence. I don't believe what you believe, neither do I follow your religion, but I will not let anyone oppress you for practicing your religion. Now do you get that. Sikhs don't live under a dictatorship in Canada. The reason why we can wear Kirpans and practice Sikhi without a police officer hitting us with sticks. Don't you know people give you look they have seen Alien. What does this show. People are like you ignorant. Only you grow up in a religion your very ignorant of. Which was sad at first, but now it's just funny because of the way you try to justfy it. IT's said ignorance is bliss, but you just gave another meaning to it. Sure I haven't. Just how the Khalsa was created for one peroid of time right!!!! Own country hey, I never knew you were a congress leader. Reality isn't always nice to people. Well it depends. It wasn't out of anger I would lay you out, but because slapping the sense into some people actaully works. In your case I don't think it would have worked because shameless is your first name. But hey, its worth a try, you never know. You told us exactly how your a Sikh. Calling people that follow Guru Sahib Manmukh and one's that don't, which includes you, Gurmukh. Trust me you explained yourself loud and clear. No further explanations are needed. But if you feel the need to make a fool out of yourself then go right ahead. No one will take a shameless person like you serious.

Well in Canada we don't have to wear helmets when riding a bike. It feels better when you got a dastar on and no helmet. The helmet just messes everything up. Don't know how the laws are there, but if there anything like Canada's then he'll win the case. It is pure discrimination when these types of things happen. wearing a smaller dastar would not helped here because then it would not have been tight enough, which would lead to saying just take it off. One compromise after another is what these ignorant englishmen want from the rest of the world. They scream its for safety man, but I say that's just an excuse.

Do you know defination of BRAINWASHING... IF no then read Intensive, forcible indoctrination, usually political or religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic convictions and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set of fixed beliefs. Thats some thing is happening with sikh panth... without any target or any rivals Sikh are makeing them self ready for any battle. Wearing 5K's and feeling sitting on horse and saying Jaikaras. Didn't france say no turban in government buildings meaning 10 year old Sikh kids can't even get a education because of discrimination. Isn't United States trying to do the same, but in a less obvious way. They are trying to get a bill passed which will not allow a Sikh to wear a Turban in a driver license photo and other government id's. These are all targets of the Khalsa Panth. To win this court battles with the pen. The 5 K's were not just created to fight physical battles and was not just created for Guru Gobind Singh Sahib time. You seem like a smart guy, but just showed your ignorance. Also only one of the 5 k's is for self-defense. And if you look at that time Guns and other advanced weapons were being created. Surely Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji was well aware of this and would have given us a gun instead of kirpan for a kakkar if the 5 k's were created for just fighting wars. Or there would have been a Hukam to change a kirpan to a gun once guns were more advanced. But nothing of the sort. The only person you are fooling with your accusation that has no support is yourself. Take a read at the Dasam Granth and then come back here to agrue that the RSS is imposing a Granth on the Khalsa. What you can't understand is not false. And speaking of brainwashed. Everyone knows a person that cuts his hair and acts like the rest of the western society has been brainwashed to do it. You guys are trying to fit in so you can be accept as a normal person. You bend over in many ways just to be another person in the crowd. You adopt western culture, which is just political games with no truth and then call it the correct way of living. Political correctness is your Truth. The only way your going to make it in society is by kissing buts and the western culture has taught you the best way to do this. You wanna be liberal right. Well following Sikhi their is no traditional way and there is no moderate way. Sikhi is always with times and beyond your liberal western culture that you love so much because they allow you to drink in the same bar as the rest. What is truly shameful of your type is. You guys try to get into some clubs or bars and right at the doors you guys get kicked out. Given the excuse, you got runners on or to young. So go be the good sheep you are and run along before your white boss who's *** you kissed to get a job suspends you or kicks you out on the street. Your country. That's sad man you can't even realize you are under a dictatorship. And it's called Hindustan not India. The one's with trianglar hats run the show. They make you piss in your pants if you decide to go against them. Go read some Gurbani and understand the fact that Truth never changes. Post by post you expose your ignorance. Well since you live in India then your kissing congress <banned word filter activated>. Either way you come here or there people like you will bend in anyway to fit what the government says. I really feel bad for you man. You need True Singhs to come to your guys oppressed state. The very people that gave Hindus and your cowards to live without Muslim rulers are the ones you call nobodies. The only reason why you or any of your kind can talk freely is because of Singhs like Baba Deep Singh ji. Have some respect for the ones that saved your <banned word filter activated> from Muslim rulers. Seriously, there is a point where someone can spit trash from their mouth and you have pushed that limit. Honestly if this was face to face your face would be under my foot. Learn some respect.

That's so true. As a word of advice from a brother to every sister that will read this. Don't wear a skirt, men have dirty minds. Yeah I said it! men will make something so innocent into something dirty in a split second. And the funny part is all they have to do is just think about it and turn to the man next to them and both will be nodding with goofy perverted smiles on their faces without even speaking to each other. I am sorry but you sounds like a MUSALMAN Who want their wives covered on Burka. Who never trust any one and who know all men will stare their wives Who even never turst their own Father or brother and always think their wives are not secure so they cover them from head to toe with black bhurka. How do take a girl (100% NON Sikhny) wearing a skirt... I mean will It be ok with you. Never forget Ghaghra and Garara were our traditional dresses...even today if you see some folk program in Punjab you will find these outfits. I'm sorry, but you sound like a pervert. ONly such a person would tell a women to wear such exposing clothing for his own satisfication. Truly digusting man who wants woman to do to unmentionable things. Go watch your WWE in the internet parlors. Sit there with your buddy's with perverted looks on your face watching half naked women wrestling. Get your filthy no good digusting mind out of the gutter. And a tradition with no value means nothing in Sikhi. Trying to hide your perverted mind by telling women to wear longer skirts won't work. True Kaurs will smack that skin off your face.

Well You are right I really don't have dare to say all this stuff in Public. And you know what the reality is If a hindu will say me some thing wrong regarding Sikhi then I will deal with him very aggressively and I have lots of BIG words to say like you guys have. I read your looooooooooooong letter but, even it still lacking logic. Ok Listen my real life experience.. Hey don't be sacred its not that looooong. One of my friend's (Sikh) son (6 years old) asked him , Why he keep hair... Why he is not like other children n school or locality? My friend started telling him all the stories of Sikhi, Guru ji's martyr and other stories of bravery. He (son) asked so what all I can do NOW... I want to be like normal child. I understand your logic now. Thanks for that insight. India is not influenced by western culture. You must be living in a cave. Seriously man what is bollywood. Is it a new idea you came up with when you came out of your cave. Get real man Baba Deep Singh ji, did you forget about this Saintsoldier already. You live on the very land he walked on and you forgot about him!!!!! I know, I read your logic up above. Alright, I see where your going with this.