sikhwiki

Wow what an explanation. Very rarely have I come across an explanation that highlights so much in such few words.

Lets get a few things straight here... I dont think you have watched or listened to the video properly, there is a part in this video where this Granthi talks about the night him and his uncle got a beating in the Gurudwara, he talks about how they went for a drinking session in bexley and how a somalian kebab shop owner let them eat in the back room as they were sikh. He then talks about coming home on the train and trying to talk his uncle (Suba Singh) out of going back to the gurudwara as they had been drinking. He then talks about how Suba ignored his advice and they both went back to the Gurudwara where 2 singhs got suspicious when they noticed the Granthis coming back at 11pm on Sat night dressed in Shirts/Trousers. These Singhs then called the Granthis over and must have smelled alcohol then took care of the situation in the way they thought was right. If you listen to the video you will realise these are no longer allegations this is from the horses mouth. So now you have your proof. Now a question to ask yourselves... 1. Why did the committee members that know he was drunk and smelled alcohol that night now say that he wasnt. 2. If he says himself they had been drinking why did the hospital tests show he wasnt - probably because there were no tests 3. Why have the committee members been backing up these Granthis for the last month when everyone of them knows that they drink 4. Why was this Granthi at the gurudwara on Sunday doing Kirthan over a month after this incident 5. Why was there a collection set up for these so called innocent Granthis rather than having them removed from the premises This is a sad state of affairs and shows just how low people will go for there own political gain. So would you say what these Granthi did was Paap and that they are Paapi? Well I say the people that backed up these Granthi, spread false rumours and arranged collections for them knowing they were drunk have done Maha Paap and their actions are as bad if not worse than the Granthis. As for the people that believed the false rumours and put money towards their collection without questioning any of this, I think the shame from the above video should be enough punishment for them. As for the 2 singhs that taught them that drinking alcohol and coming into our Gurudwara will not be tolerated. I thank you for doing what the majority of other people would turn a blind eye to and showing our community that we will not put up with this behaviour on these holy premises.

Thanks but i already emailed these guys but no reply.

I would like to know which Ragis and Kirtan Jatha from india will be in the UK in May 2011, can anyone tell me where I can get this information. Thanks in advance

Sri Nabh Kamal Raja Sahibji was a Puran Brahmgyani whos sole message to his followers was to do Naam Simran. "Is this Sikh Samprada?" - from the sentence above you make your mind up. Putting links to videos made by his followers is not going to give you a true picture of his message, but will show the love and devotion people show to him and whether you think this is "Sikh Samprada" is down to your interpretation aswell as theirs. Not sure what your intention is but if its to start a Mahapursh/Sant nindya thread then you may want to do some research before you join the papi brigade.

No, I am not creating any quotes. These are the words of Dasam Patshah Ji Himself. And I already mentioned that earlier that they are not from Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I am not using them to back up my thoughts, just stating what Gurujee has stated, thats all. 'these quotes are the words of Dasam Patshah Ji himself' - if you say so Mehtab then it must be true. Maybe you should find out where these quotes actually come from before making statements like that. If your right then alls fine but what do you think the consequences could be if your wrong. Think of the people that could be led astray. Back up your quotes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Correct, agreed.I also agree with you. I am not sure about Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, but as per my limited knowledge, Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj did say "Raj Bina Neh Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Daley Maley Hain", and "Koi Kisi Ko Raj Nah Deh Hai, Jo Leh Hai Nijj Bal Se Lai Hain".Where do you get these quotes from? again I doubt these quotes are from Guru Granth Sahibji, you seem to be taking quotes from anywhere just to backup your what you want to think. Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! Way to go, awesome example!!!! Just because someone disagrees with you regarding Khalistan then he must fall into one of the following categories Hindu, Muslim, Sharabi/druggy, Bollywood film lover, uneducated, unsikh, Mona, basically not Sikh I dont live in India but visit there once or twice a year, I have never come across family, friends or to that mind anyone that is asking for Khalistan or is talking about being oppressed. Its only in the UK or Canada that I hear this type of talk. Mostly young Sikhs in the UK/Canada who think Sikhism is all about 1984. "Our Guru is Guru Granth Sahibji" they say but where does Maharaj talk about Khalistan or any other political issues. Its the first time I have come across these 52 Hukams of Guru Gobind Singhji but it seems everytime someone needs to back up their own ideas they seem to pull quotes out from all sorts of sources yet they only mann "Sri Guru Granth Sahibji". Oh and I forgot to mention I dont watch bollywood films I dont get time, but I bet youve seen more than me.

If Guru Gobing Singhji wanted Khalistan he would have created it. Guruji wanted to fight oppression and allow Hindus to practice Hinduism and Muslims to practice Islam. Sikhism is about the brotherhood of man not segregating itself from everyone else. Please tell me where it says one of Guru Gobind Singh Jis hukams is to Rule Independently. Ill tell you one thing it wont be in Shri Guru Granth Sahibji anywhere.

The majority of the people going to Haridwar are not going to Haridwar to throw water at the sun as you have stated, they are going to do shnaan at the holy river. They are also going to do darshan of Sant and Sadh as this is what they have probably been told to do by their religion just as it tells us in SGGSji. Me as a Sikh do not see anything wrong in this at all as I have been lucky enough to do shnaan at Darbar Sahib, Hemkunt Sahib and many other spiritual places. You probably have aswell but are too afraid to say just incase people start thinking your a hindu.

Ask yourself the following questions:- Have I ever been to Amritsar to do shnaan? What about Hemkunt Sahib? If you havent maybe you should! if your lucky someone will do your Nindya!

He has achieved Nindya from nindaks which will help him move forward on his journey.

I used the train for the first time last year (delhi to Ludhiana) and would recommend the first class ticket which cost me 1000 rps. I booked the ticket online from the UK and collected my tickets before boarding, you just show your passport as ID when picking them up.

Todays Hukamnama talks about serving the saints aswell as finding the essence of the lord through the Saadh Sangat... TODEE, FIFTH MEHL: Without understanding, his coming into the world is useless. He puts on various ornaments and many decorations, but it is like dressing a corpse. || Pause || With great effort and exertion, the miser works to gather in the riches of Maya. He does not give anything in charity or generosity, and he does not serve the Saints; his wealth does not do him any good at all. || 1 || The soul-bride puts on her ornaments, embellishes her bed, and fashions decorations. But if she does not obtain the company of her Husband Lord, the sight of these decorations only brings her pain. || 2 || The man works all day long, threshing the husks with the pestle. He is depressed, like a forced laborer, and so he is of no use to his own home. || 3 || But when God shows His Mercy and Grace, He implants the Naam, the Name of the Lord, within the heart. Search the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, O Nanak, and find the sublime essence of the Lord. || 4 || 2 || 4 ||

Great post, just want to add my two pence worth. My understanding is this... The object is to do naam simran to increase your kamai to help fight the 5 evils (Kahm, Krodh, Lobh, Moh, Hankaar). A Sant, Giani, Bhagat is someone who has chosen to meditate on gods name and build there kamai to fight the 5 evils, think of them as on the right journey/path. Theyre main priority is naam simran, theyre job is naam simran. What you got to understand is that sants are suseptible to the 5 evils and they use naam simran to keep these under control. When you hear of sants doing bad things its usually when theyre concentration has come away from simran and let in the evils or when theyre kamai has got to a level where theyre hankaar takes over. Unfortunately this is just human nature very similar to how a poor person can change from a nice caring person to a self rightoues, selfish <banned word filter activated> once they strike it rich. There also the fake sants/babas that start off on the intention of ripping people off and using people to their advantage. They have and never had any interest in simran just other agendas. Recent years we have had Katha vajak (people whos job it is to do Katha, this is their job), they are wrong fully labelled Babas, Sants, Brahmgiani etc because they explain gurbani well and seem to or do have a good understanding of Gurbani. The majority of these (not all) are doing this as part of their job similar to you and me going to work to earn money, when these people do something bad it becomes another fake baba story giving the Nindaks the fuel they need to light theyre Nindya fires. A Brahmgiani, Puran Sant is someone who over many lifetimes have done theyre simran and overcome the 5 evils and are in theyre last human form. Thats why in the sukhmani Sahibji Sri Guru Arjan Devji has said Brahmgyani aap parmeshwar as the last post rightfully said they are attuned to God and are god themselves. They are above the 5 evils and these cant come near them. My advice is stay away from the Nindaks and dont do nindya as you dont know the kamai of the person next to you let alone the sant/baba you are doing nindya of. Will I ever get darshan of a Brahmgiani? - Only if I have the honesty and Kamai will a brahmgiani give me the privilage of darshan, the only way we can increase the chances are by staying away from the 5 evils and doing naam simran and praying to go of his darshan.

I think your Guru could answer this question...It might be time that you stopped only bowing down to your Guru and started listening to them aswell.

So from what you know its a quote. Thats enough reason to use this quote as an excuse for Khalistan? Should you not do your homework before you start putting quotes up on forums? I think you have read this quote somewhere on the internet taken it out of context and you are not even sure where its origin is and you question me when I say you are brainwashing youths... Sri Guru Gobind Singh took up arms to fight oppression from the Moghals, to stop them oppressing the Hindus aswell as other religions in India is that not clear to you, these are the same Hindus that you and other Khalistanis preach hatred against. There was a lot of injustice in 1984 against the Sikhs and I do not defend that, I dont disagree with protests against the 1984 injustices or any other injustice since, its clear our brothers and sisters were the innocent victims of Govt politicians/Thugs/others but the answer is not Khalistan. The answer is not division because SGGSji teaches us the opposite. You are doing this using this forum, whether you know it or not a lot of youth use this forum some to learn about sikhi, we should point them in the direction of SGGSji and help them along the path, not push them in the direction of political issues like Khalistan. Oh and by the way my name has nothing to do with Wikipedia or any other encyclopedia its my name chosen by me for my own reasons. I tell you what you read Bhai Rama Singh Jees vision of Khalistan and ill stick to reading my Gurus vision of Khalistan from SGGSji. Im sure you could! 'Raj Karega Khalsa' has not been taken from SGGSji nor was this from Sri Guru Gobind Singhji it was added onto ardas by a Sikh poet and is still used today during ardas. So I hope that answers your question. I repeat, I advise everyone youth, adults, girls, boys, hindus, muslims, jews, christians anyone that breathes to read SGGSji as these are the words from Gurus, Bhagats and Brahmgyanis that are one with God. You can listen and learn FOR FREE from any Gurudwara http://www.gurudwara.net/gurudwaranet/. "They won't charge you a single penny. Order it, read it, and then talk."...LOL P.S. Ive wasted enough time arguing with you now, I could of spent this time doing Naam simran but its Kalyug and the darker powers got the better of me namely Krodh but we live and learn right.

"raaj bina neh dharm chaley hain, dharm bina sab dalay malay hain" Where did you get this quote from, I know one thing it couldnt be out of the Guru Granth Sahibji as gurbani teaches us the complete opposite. Unless you have taken it out of context. Now the following is a complete contradiction and is from SGGSji. "Raj na chahon mukat na chahon man preet charan kamlarey" I think you should stop brainwashing our youth into practicing hatred against others and teach them about naam simran, which is reiterated again and again in SGGSji. In my view (and probably not yours) Sikhi isnt about dividing people its probably one of the very few religions that would and could unite the whole of humanity no matter what caste, creed and religion. But I think Superbell used the word 'Idiots' which fits in nicely to portray the kind of people that are using Sikhi to divide views and take people away from the spirtual teachings of SGGSji. Also where has Guruji predicted Khalistan?

Fair enough. But what about tomorrow? Just because someone doesn't believe in keeping kesh doesn't mean he/she is not Sikh Just because someone thinks its ok to drink alcohol doesn't mean he/she is not Sikh Just because someone thinks its ok to worship Hindu deities doesn't mean he/she is not Sikh Just because someone thinks its no big deal going to fake saints and wearing their threads doesn't mean he/she is not Sikh Where is the end? This is exactly my point, may be you should open a Gurudwara and run it based on your principles:- No mona sikhs allowed No Hindus - Muslims - Christians e.g. non sikhs No alcohol drinkers No meat eaters No one that worships hindu deities No Sants and Babas Basically no one that follows your version of sikhism. Then we can use our Gurudwaras to do parchar of naam simran like our Gurus taught us. Oh I forgot to mention GOI employees..LOL

May be the GOI is funding so called Khalistanis to use there extremist views to divide the Sikhs more than they already are while preaching there anti sikh and prejudice views against, hinduism, islam and anything else that doesnt fit into their version of sikhi.

Khalistan is a political issue and has no place in a Spiritual Gurudwara.

Why dont you give us your take on it! and show us what Mr moderator thinks so we can get the pearls of wisdom from someone so high up like you...

Excuse me if I have misunderstood but although I agree everything is by the will of God I dont believe that God has willed me to be out of work, or with a disability, or to have a son that is out of control. This is my Karam, this is my doing, god does not want me to be poor or upset in any way, I am like this because of my previous actions. God has given me the oppurtunity to cleanse my previous actions in this life with this pain and I am grateful. But above all of this God has given me human form and showed me the true path and most importantly put me on the path of naam and now it is my duty to do naam simran with every breath through this life and all the ones thereafter and hope that one day I can overcome the 5 evils through naam and earn my place in Sachkand. I will probably give in to the 5 evils but hope with my Gurus guidance I can overcome these.

Yoga exercise to improve mental or physical state is not what we are talking here. Most of the people that go to yoga classes want to improve health in some way this is not what we have been talking about in this thread. I can tell you form my own experience that after a running around all day at work and home my mind is thinking a million thoughts of how to fix this and that, or bills to pay, or getting things ready for work etc. So to help calm my mind so that it doesnt jump from one thought to another I do a minute or so of breathing exercise to calm it down, this then helps me concentrate on naam and focus my time on meditating on naam. I dont know if this falls under kundalini yoga, raj yoga or any other type of yoga but what I do know is that this helps me in my goal of concentrating on naam simran rather than, doing simran through my mouth while my mind is elsewhere. Like I said before do what ever suits you but the end goal for not just Sikhs but human beings is naam simran, this is what we are here for and this is what we should be doing. Its not easy and each individual has to use whatever tools he/she can to help with naam. The person in this video is showering Our Guru with flower petals what is wrong with this? do you think he is doing this with some sort of hate? or do you think this for love for his Guru? Can you not see any devotion in this, can you not look deeper into the reason for him doing what he is doing or is this wrong because hindus do this? So when we see a deva or thoof (Incense sticks) at the gurudwara is this not Beadbi? is this wrong because hindus do this? or could it be that we do this to purify or make the air around Guruji smell sweet. Do you not think you should looker deeper than their physical actions to the reasoning and love behind their actions and respect that? Dhana jatt had so much love for a stone, he worshipped it day and night because he thought it was god and eveyone laughed at him? and told him he was wrong? so why did God himself give him Darshan - it was because of his pure love for his God. Guru Arjan is saying I dont do kundalini yoga, I only worship God, there is no other way of knowing God besides worshipping Vahiguru. yoga is something that some people do in their way of making a big show of their "devotion to God" Having lots of money as an organization and owning yoga studios doesnt mean nothing. ONly worship of God will get your ego shed or your mind clear etc.................. I agree worship of God through naam simran. You got to remember naam simran is not easy for mere mortal humans like me so like a car I sometimes need a push start by using physical means e.g yoga, breathing, walking to help me focus on naam. I believe that once ive got this engine started and I can jap naam with every breath I will no longer need the physical exercises like yoga, breathing exercise etc and can maybe then I can be considered a Sikh :-)

OMG not Aarti and Ganga!!! how discraceful to your Sect of Sikhi!!!!! Let me explain my view on this:- Aarti = Poetic verses explaining the importance and values of naam simran, whether this is sikh, hindi, jewish or christian you should listen and understand what is being said before slagging it off Ganga = A sacred place where Guru Nanak devji visited aswell as many other Mahapursh over millions of years. Just to do darshan of this sacred place is a privilage let alone any form of prayer to God. Yoga - Let me explain to you of my understanding before I get slated by all the so called Sikhs out there that jump on anything other than their narrow minded version of Sikhism. Sri Guru Granth Sahibji tells us to do naam simran which is not an easy task as our mind is attacked left right and center by the 5 evils, now for us to start naam simran we should try anything we can to get our mind to focus, as we are all individuals different things will help focus our mind. Yoga helps some, walking helps others, washing dishes others, sitting in a dark quiet room others. My point is Whether you sit at home or wash dishes at Harimandar Sahib or yoga at the river Ganges and do naam simran or Aarti or Japji Sahibji. You are better than the next person that wastes their time on Sikh Sangat slagging everyone else off for trying to better the life. wat a reply m8 wow. Yoga is a form of excercise, I never said it doesn't help with naam simran because it helps a hell of alot with mine. However statements such as the one I posted, that removing blockages etc will bring happiness and prosperity into your life are not sikh- Only god has that ability- we're 100% helpless wthout him, this is kaljug, the darkest age and yoga isn't going to get rid of peoples misfortune, only something amazingly pure and strong can overcome misery and misfortune- and that's god. If yoga helps with your naam simran then I say do yoga, do it as much as you can and I promise you by increasing your naam simran through yoga you will 'remove blockages etc will bring happiness and prosperity into your life'. My point being dont just put down yoga just because someone wrote a statement that yoga helps do this and yoga helps do that or yoga is this and yoga is that. Look deeper than that. As for you 2nd statement stating only God has that ability....God has given you the ability to do naam simran and the knowledge to know that naam simran will help you get through the dark ages of Kaljug it is down to you to take the oppurtunity and put in the effort to do it. Naam simran is not easy and I myself find it really difficult to concentrate and remember to do this enough so like I said whether its yoga, walking, cooking, cleaning if it helps with naam then do it.

OMG not Aarti and Ganga!!! how discraceful to your Sect of Sikhi!!!!! Let me explain my view on this:- Aarti = Poetic verses explaining the importance and values of naam simran, whether this is sikh, hindi, jewish or christian you should listen and understand what is being said before slagging it off Ganga = A sacred place where Guru Nanak devji visited aswell as many other Mahapursh over millions of years. Just to do darshan of this sacred place is a privilage let alone any form of prayer to God. Yoga - Let me explain to you of my understanding before I get slated by all the so called Sikhs out there that jump on anything other than their narrow minded version of Sikhism. Sri Guru Granth Sahibji tells us to do naam simran which is not an easy task as our mind is attacked left right and center by the 5 evils, now for us to start naam simran we should try anything we can to get our mind to focus, as we are all individuals different things will help focus our mind. Yoga helps some, walking helps others, washing dishes others, sitting in a dark quiet room others. My point is Whether you sit at home or wash dishes at Harimandar Sahib or yoga at the river Ganges and do naam simran or Aarti or Japji Sahibji. You are better than the next person that wastes their time on Sikh Sangat slagging everyone else off for trying to better the life.