manni007

http://www.dailymail...ous-symbol.html Yes, the muslim radio presenter 9 Adil RAY did nothing wrong to provke any response? The SIKHS are just crazy troubelmakers with nothing better to do than to go around threatening people? NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not surprised, but u hav 2 b very careful nowadays paki gangs carry knives ang guns and while our lot r doctors and lawyers, they r boxers and gangsters, they hate us, not surprising having read the propoganda they make up on their sites

Bruv check out these pakistani websites man u won't believe the lies they spout bout sikhi, they r subhuman

Nice effort bijla, I will copy and paste ur answers, and let's see what these guys, sadly mostly sikhs saying this stuff.s, they say this rehat that I keep referencing was only started by kahn singh over 150 years after guru gobind singh, so means nothing. Ps, u shud check out msn groups, and facebook groups and many other anti sikh sites out there. My mate showed me a pakistani site, and it seems sub human because of the garbage written, ie guru nanak was muslim, guru gobind never defeated aurangzeb , begged for mercy from him via zafarnama and was killed by pathans, I mean wat the hell?

Thanks Matheen but I need full answers to each of these points, with references. The references these facebook groups and msn group called sikh myths uses are Najot Singh Oberoi, writer of Hum Hindu Hain, Khushwant Singh - History of Sikhs, Koenraad Elsts - Who are the Sikhs and History of Khalsa? Answers to this : Here is what somone else said re expalanation of idols/murits in Hari mandir sahib, ( HOW WOULD YOU answer these points? - SO that i can copy and paste on them on their message board, THANKS for doing the hard work FATEH) ....the lines between who is hindu and who is sikh were a lot more blurred during and immediately after the (sikh) gurus times on earth, than they are today. Hindus from the Punjab who under the leadership of Guru Gobind Singh took up arms against the mughals, adorned the five kakkars of the guru, and took amrit would describe themselves as Khalsa - (PURE), rather than sikh. When the fighting was over they would go back to their day to day duties and carry on with their Hindu rituals and festivals such as Diwali, rakhri, lohri and vaisakhi. ...they saw no contradictions in doing so either.....therfore it would be of no surprise that the eldest son of a Hindu family would join the Khalsa army whilst at the same time retaining his Hindu identity /religion during these times. inter marriage was not seen as an obstacle either and was infact encouraged along the same caste lines.... ....it was only with the arrival of the British that words such as sikhi-ism and Hindu-ism were coined, largley to help the British differentiate between and understand the complex spirituality of the natives.....it was also during these times, towards the end of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's empire that the word sikh became more popular as a means to describe what was now begining to be seen as a more distinct religion, than the aforementioned khalsa which was more of an army/hieretichal description...... ... therfore one should not be alarmed to note that the holiest shrine of the Khalsa panth (not religion) was named after a Hindu deity, and the practice of idol worship was implemeted by the largely hindu punjabi adherrents to the khalsa panth, soon after its construction... it was only centuries later after the onset of the British paid historians such as Kahn Singh Nabha that distinctions were formed forged and two seperate belief systems were formed ...this eventually led to idols of the Hindu deities and Guru Harigovind being removed.....largely under the influence of Wilheim Leitner, Kahn Singh Nabha and Max Arthur Macauliffe..... Navjot Singh Oberoi - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I look forward to hearing from you guys . Ps i want to answer them with facts not abuse.

good post Bijla Singh. This is what some ( i presume Hindu) guy has posted on another site ( i wont name it as i dont wish to promote it here) re idol/mutri worship: Every religion in the world conducts idol worship/murti pooja in some way or another. Christian bow b4 statues of Jesus, Crucifix and Mary Muslims bow b4 the Kabba in Mecca , pray towards, conduct Hajj to go and kiss it Buddists bow b4 statues of Budda Sikhs bow b4 a granth covered in Cloth that they have never read, and b4 pics of gurus and shasters --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is what somone else said re expalanation of idols/murits in Hari mandir sahib, ( HOW WOULD YOU answer these points? - SO that i can copy and paste on them on their message board, THANKS for doing the hard work FATEH) ....the lines between who is hindu and who is sikh were a lot more blurred during and immediately after the (sikh) gurus times on earth, than they are today. Hindus from the Punjab who under the leadership of Guru Gobind Singh took up arms against the mughals, adorned the five kakkars of the guru, and took amrit would describe themselves as Khalsa - (PURE), rather than sikh. When the fighting was over they would go back to their day to day duties and carry on with their Hindu rituals and festivals such as Diwali, rakhri, lohri and vaisakhi. ...they saw no contradictions in doing so either.....therfore it would be of no surprise that the eldest son of a Hindu family would join the Khalsa army whilst at the same time retaining his Hindu identity /religion during these times. inter marriage was not seen as an obstacle either and was infact encouraged along the same caste lines.... ....it was only with the arrival of the British that words such as sikhi-ism and Hindu-ism were coined, largley to help the British differentiate between and understand the complex spirituality of the natives.....it was also during these times, towards the end of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's empire that the word sikh became more popular as a means to describe what was now begining to be seen as a more distinct religion, than the aforementioned khalsa which was more of an army/hieretichal description...... ... therfore one should not be alarmed to note that the holiest shrine of the Khalsa panth (not religion) was named after a Hindu deity, and the practice of idol worship was implemeted by the largely hindu punjabi adherrents to the khalsa panth, soon after its construction... it was only centuries later after the onset of the British paid historians such as Kahn Singh Nabha that distinctions were formed forged and two seperate belief systems were formed ...this eventually led to idols of the Hindu deities and Guru Harigovind being removed.....largely under the influence of Wilheim Leitner, Kahn Singh Nabha and Max Arthur Macauliffe..... Navjot Singh Oberoi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How would we answer this? How true is it? I will post ur ansers on their message board

Ps a lot has to do with fact that it was named hari mandir, and murti pooja was an important spiritual practice at da time and our gurus didn't impose there ways on anyone and couldn't refuse anyone. Ps bhai kahn singh was taught by wilheim leitner, a british administrator. A person who had no link 2 sikhi. Nirmala and udassi temples in punjab still hav murtis today. I'm not saying its right, just stating fact. My answer is, things evolve and change, hence we don't hav them today. Google the article and u can read it, its quite interesting. Pps, no I'm not hindu,lol fbhul chuk maafe Pps what gives u or anyone da right to say khushwant singh, sumair singh or nayone else isn't sikh? Hankaar is wrong. Concerntrate on our karma and sikhi, and forget wot others r.

With respect the quote about idols in the harmandir sahib being there 4rom the gurus times, is from an essay on sikh history by the great sikh historian sumair singh, and if u read the whole article he explains why. It is backed up by the likes of bhai ranbir singh and khushwant singh too. To me tho it isn't a big deal. I won't say anything more as I mite start gettin attacked and told I'm a hindu supporter, lol

wjk wjkf thanks for the info, will def try to buy the dvd. can u post it on yoututbe so that 1000's of apne can have access to it?

Then why ahd bhagat Trilochan written about Ram Chander in the Granth sahib ji, and also abotu Laxman, Ravan and Hanuman on page 695? Why have our gurus written about him in the granth sahib?

this is actually showing reality as many women had theri chidlren cut up, and their dead chidlrens limbs put around their necks as necklaces! Its really quite sad how the kurbania of these people are forgotten / ignored today CAN ANYONE GET THE FULL VIDEO OF THIS FILM? IS IT ON YOUTUBE? LOVE TO WATCH IT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozzWrGg6iQw Some may say this is the past, but lest we forget what oru ancestors went through, due to such callous actions of such fiends. Compare the anakh and bravery of the SINGHNI in the video to some of the Singhnia today!

with computer graphics as advanced as they are, we could create images like the ones in the photos and make a full length movie. altho as i said, i wouldnt see anything wrong with actors fulfilling the role, as they would merely be vessels getting a great emssage across, adn making it easier for even thsoe NOT into sikhi to see the gurus message. Has anyone got any more / bio info on the sahibazaade?

Wouldnt it be nice to have nice film about our gurus lifetimes, how sikhi evolved through each one of theri lifetimes, and how significant a part the sahibzade played? I think there would be nothing wrong with actors palying the part of our gurus as long as they respect our religion. It would be great for kids and adults, a way to learn quickly about our dharm, and sit together, discuss and enjoy. Better than watchin western tv and punjabi serials. What do you think? Can anyone post info / bio's on the sahibzade, esp the older ones?

Be careful what you say , singho.

Sunsingh said : Anti Hindu people need to read ''The Gallant Defender'' wherein a HINDU exmagistrate vocally takes the Sikh side in describing the events around 1984. Painting everyone in a community with the same brush is the mark of an ignorant fool. babbarsher said : if we started hating them coz they hate us then whats the difference between us and them? its like saying since some whites mistake us for arabs we should mistake all whites for racists....sounds stupid dosnt it? Mehtab Singh, said: Remember guys, the Khalsa does not hate any community or religion. In fact the Khalsa doesn't hate ANYONE for that matter. Our fight is against tyrants only, even if they wear the 5 kakaars outwardly. ---------- I agree! As for Harmandeal, its ignorant idiots like u who give us all a bad name. Can u provide an Evidence fro your outlandish, stupid comments? Please read what the granh sahib ji has to say about ram chander, it shows respect to him, and you are insulting our gurus by saying such things.

Mala , I think u r missing thet poit, they r merely emphasising the fact that the Sikhs in the video, shwo courage to defend rightly or wrongly what is there's. Dotn forget where ur in a foreign country, you take whatever job u can

Adil Ray-cist and that Sri Lankan presenter ALWAYS have topics on Sikhs, its jsut to get ratings adn create controversy! Neither are Sikh (Adil - muslim, Sri lankan is a Budist) yet they have topics on khalistan, kirpans etc! They should STOP all topics on US and concertnrate on Islam and Budism - there OWN religions They seem to view us as SOFT targets.

I don't know what game u r playing, but none of ur links work, or match what u r saying. Also, how can sumone have so many identities? I don't believe you. Sat sri akal, not interested

Good point kphull, but for the record most sikhs on this site do NOT blame Hindus for 1984, we Blame Indira (fake Ghandi) Khan, (PM ), President Zial Singh, General Kuldeep Brar , KPS Gill and the CONGRESS Govt, (made up of a mixture of religions and corrupt politicians)

Caste based Gurdwaras are a DISGRACE, even Hindus dont have caste based temples, its just US! How can we say there is no caste in Sikhi if we have gurdwaras divided by caste

chatanga, on 12 August 2009 - 05:59 AM, said: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php/topic/46279-some-questions-for-khalistanis/ and i quote CHATANGA below ; ------------------------------------------------------------------- amar_jkp writes: "These Hindu fools will not accept what they have done to sikhs . Day by day my hatread for them is increasing , i dont have words to tell our people how much i hate them. I have made promise to myself that i will give my childrens evrything good house , food , cars plus hatread against Hindu and Hindustanis." People on this forum, this is just a ploy to rile anti-hindu attitudes purposely, as admitted by amar_jkp on the hindu-sikh forum. He has openly stated there, that he writes such rubbish to excite some of the people on this forum who dislke hindus into making similiar statements. dont buy his bs. this is what he wrote under the id of akaal das: "You are right I am on that site (sikhsangat) as Amar jkp and that site is a joke, its full of right wing sikhs who are anti India and Hindus. Its mostly kids, I purposely write anti Hindu stuff on it to rile these idiots up" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks Chatanga for catching amar_jkp out, I read his post on hindu-sikh.com and YOU are RIGHT, He is here to STIRR us up.

WRONG : (i) India was a NATION 100's of years before CHINA during the Mauryan Empire under the King Asoka , which had more land mass than even rpesent day India and Pakistan put together. ( google it and you will see maps etc) (ii) India also was a HUGE nation under the Gupta empire, 100's of years before the british came along. (iii) China, which comprised 100's of little nations made up of warring tirbes was ONLY put together as a nation by Emperor CHIN who used treachery, Unmerciful FORCE to do so. PS; How SAD and ungrateful of China to talk about India like this especially when OUR ancestors gave them - Spirituality / religion - BUDDISM, martial arts - KUNG FU and KARATE! lol PPS : This article and many like it are written by Communist China as they se India as their biggest threat/rival in terms of Economy and Military power in the region! PPPS : China deals with its minorities much more horifically usually gassing them or shooting them in the head, for merely typing articels expressing minor dissent

Thanks Chatanga for catching amar_jkp out, I read his post on hindu-sikh.com and YOU are RIGHT, He is here to STIRR us up.

I think fordcapri and jeevan have raised VALID points, its NOT as if they are making things up. They have backed up what they have said with references and evidence.