osingh

"I'm not sure how gurmat simran can be defined as focusing on sound only !" Ang 943: Shabad Guru, Surat Dhun Chela< In Gurbani quoted above, Guru Nanak Dev jee is giving the updesh (lesson) that Shabad (Naam) is Guru and the Surat is the disciple of the Dhuni of the Guru (Naam). Here is clear bachan from Gurbani advising us to focus our surat (concentration/focus) on the dhuni (sound) of Gurmantar (Naam given by Panj Pyare at Amrit Sanchar). Here Guru Sahib has used the example of Guru and disciple (chela) for Naam and Surat. In Jap jee Sahib bani that we recite daily, there comes the suneeai paurees i.e. suneeai sidh peer sun nath, suneeai dharat dhaval aakaash...... These paurees are indicating the importance of listening to and the rewards of listening to Naam. Listening to the dhuni of Naam is sanctioned by Gurmat and many Gurmukh piare of high avastha. Along with listening to the dhuni (sound) of naam, we must also have pyaar (love) and faith. We must japp naam with pyaar and faith. I cannot recall any Gurmukhs advising focusing on a "void" or "nothingness" nor do I think Gurbani sanctions this. Rather daas would advise controlling the mind by blocking all other thoughts other than Naam and Gurbani entering the mind. One should make an effort to block external thoughts entering the mind during simran/paath. A Gurmukh is forever in union with Parmeshar than how can their mind be "empty". Rather their mind is imbued in Naam and Gurbani. Daas has read and heard about advanced stages in which naam is heard in the hirdai (heart) and naabhi (navel). However we should not try and focus our minds on these regions. It is best to japp naam with rasna (tongue) and listen to the dhuni. From this base everything else will happen automatically. We must learn to walk before we can run. The advanced stages of naam have been reached by first doing extensive and intense Naam Simran with rasna. Also we can employ our surat to listen to naam internally, this is not an advanced stage but is important as we must also recite naam internally because it not always possible to japp naam in audible manner. Bhul Chuk Maaf jee.

The dhian (focus) should be on the dhuni (sound) of gurmantar. This is the Gurmat method of naam simran. We should not concentrate our mind on some imaginary sound, pictures or letters. Just japp naam with the rasna (Tongue) and listen to the dhuni. Over time everything will fall on place. We do not focus on "nothingness" in Gurmat. Instead we let our mind be attached to Akaalpurakh by reciting naam.

Where is Sant Teja Singh jee in the above photo? Also in the first photo the names of the Sants can be found in "Gurmukh Parkash - Sant Gurbachan Singh jee Bhindranwale" available from mahapurakh.com or punjba digital library. Also I believe someone stated that Baba Mohan Singh jee Bhindranwale is in the first photo, does anyone know if this is true?

There were various meetings that the Gursikhs attended. I guess the maryada was formed through discussion/debate between these Gursikhs and coming to common agreement. If someone has more info please share, I am not sure if the details of the meetings were ever written down. It seems logical that the research/findings were based on the Rehitnames, other puratan texts and also personal vichaars of Gursikhs/Jathebandis/Samparda. Again I do not think these details were recorded, maybe there is more info available in the SGPC itihaas pustak which is available on PDL.

Veer sinhar28 jeeo, I totally agree with your above comment, Akali Kaur Singh jee's views, Bhai Randhir Singh jee's views, Sant Gurbachan Singh jee's, Bhai Vir Singh jee's views e.t.c. were never fully implemented, why? Because all Jathebandis/Sampardas/Gursikhs have differences regarding maryada so it was impossible to implement one individual or one groups views fully. This is the way it should be, this is a panthic maryada that is designed to take to views of the Sikh Panth and form a universal maryada. If Taksals maryada was implemented or AKJ, Nirmale, Nihang e.t.c. then how could this maryada be called panthic? Also nowhere does it state in the maryada or does anyone claim that this Maryada is from Guru Gobind Singh ji. Yes the maryada was changed a few times and daas is not sure if this was done in a panthic way, however this does not mean we just dismiss the maryada. I'm not sure how much input each individual Gursikh had but at least they were contacted and invited to put forth their views. I think we should respect this maryada and treat it as the bare minimum that a Gursikh should adopt into their jeevan. I think the other Takhts besides sri Hazur Sahib more or less follow the SRM.

Panch Khalsa had good points i.e. Same Amrit sanchar for women, promoting importance of keski and no separate Amrit for "lower castes."

Veer N30 jeeo, The pm I sent to Guruvah ji is not regarding this topic or you. I sent it yesterday. I was just wondering if veer ji had received it.

Veer Guruvah jeeo, did you recieve my pm? If so kirpa karo.

Veer sinhar jeeo, Prior to SGPC formed maryada various maryada were being followed by various Jatha, Sampardas, Taksals e.t.c. The SGPC maryada was a great attempt to form a maryada that could reconcile the differences between different groups and find common ground. No other maryada has had the input that the SGPC maryada has. For example Gursikhs that contributed to this maryada according to SGPC website include: Akal Kaur Singh jee from Nihangs, Pandit Man Singh ji from Nirmale, In the initial 3 meetings - Sampardayak Gursikhs - Bhai Vir Singh jee, Sant Sangat Singh Kamiliya ji Scholars - Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha ji, Prof Teja Singh ji Also Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh ji also attended the initial meetings. It is unfortunate that some have tried to malign this maryada by associating with Teja Singh Bhasaur or a conspiracy by the British. Reading the list of Gursikhs that had input or were consulted regarding this maryada one does not find outside influence from British or the name of Teja Singh Bhasaur. Maybe this is a defensive tactic by some groups when they find this maryada goes against their "own" maryada. Nowhere does the maryada state that one cannot read 5 banis at amritvela. The reason behind only 3 banis at amritvela maybe because there is no consensus on the number of banis in historical texts. I'm not too sure sure but I think the Rehitnames state mostly doing sri Jap ji sahib and sri Jaap sahib at amritvela. Regardless this is a non-issue in my opinion because the majority of Gurdwara Sahibaan worldwide recite 5 banis at amritvela, daas does not know of any Gurdwara Sahibaan that recite only 3 banis at amritvela. Barring a few points, daas believes this maryada is totally in accordance with Gurmat. We should not dismiss this maryada on hearsay but should do our own research. Maybe it is best to read it all the way through before forming a solid opinion. It can be read in either English or Punjabi at : http://sgpc.net/sikh...ntroduction.asp

I thought that Wolverhampton classes have been cancelled? Also aren't the Leicester classes due to finish shortly? Regardless, it is best to avoid learning martial arts from Niddar Singh and learn from Gursikhs that have respect for those that have given their lives for the Sikh Panth.

The horrible situation in Punjab is that there are only 2 parties to choose from in the elections and both are mayadhari (interested in material development) and not interested in advancing Sikhism. Captain and Badal have both visited anti sikh deras and anti sikh leaders in the past, unfortunately they are well established in the political system and remain the only 2 options for the Punjab population during the elections for Chief Minister. There is a 3rd option of Simranjit Singh Mann who is has stood for Khalistan and the advancement of Sikhism in Punjab. However during the elections he hardly gets any votes which says everything. In the current age of Kaljug, people are only interested in maya (material world) and short term gains. Also it seems unlikely this trend will change and seems to be getting worse day by day. Best is it stay away from this dirty world of politics and focus on spiritual life. Satguru Mehar Karan.

In the end of his letter, Niddar Singh writes that he has been at the gurdwara for 8 years and never caused any trouble but this is not the point. The sangat is not objecting to teaching martial arts but views and parchar that he does. To slander Shaheeds like Bhai Fauja Singh ji and panthic organisations like AKJ and Damdami Taksal is unacceptable. It is fine to disagree and argue but the language used on the websites is not right and the Sikh Sangat will not allow a person to write such things and also do seva at Gurdwara Sahib. Great work veer Taran Singh jeeo, your efforts have paid off, hopefully the Gurdwaras will keep the bans in place. Also thanks to the Gurdwara committees that have taken swift action against Niddar Singh. We must send make Gurdwara committees aware, all we need to do is provide the material on the websites. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Vaah! Veer Taran Jeeo, Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! You are doing good work and it is great to hear that the committee of Gurdwara Sahib stopped classes of Niddar Singh. If committees were aware of the garbage written on sites connected to Niddar Singh I'm sure they would be take action. Posting a picture of bhai Amolak Singh jee who has done so much parchar and seva of Sikhi with the words "pakhand kirtan" says it all. Bhai sahib has connected and inspired many towards Sikhi. Fine if one believes kirtan should be done in raags only this is fine. What is the need to slander Gursikhs at the same time? Why not post a picture of Nihangs who also do kirtan on harmonium without raag? If a Nihang Singh does kirtan without raag is it parvaan? This is the main problem. It is fine to disagree with Taksal or AKJ but their is a certain protocol one should follow. Slandering respected Gurmukhs will bear no fruit. Gursikhs of the past had big differences but they also had Naam, Bani and Rehat. They enshrined Gurbani in their hearts and therefore were able to have pyar with each other despite differences. Gursikhs of the past would never slander Shaheed Singhs. Satguru Mehar Karan. Veer Taran jeeo, have you contacted any other Gurdwara Sahibaan were these classes take place. What has been their reaction. It would be great if you could show them what is written on websites connected to Niddar Singh. Also it is important that we can verify that indeed the letter in regards to Niddar Singh is authentic and signatures are authentic. I urge Nihang Singhs to post a video from Nihang Jathedars to clear stance on Niddar Singh.

Try srigranth.org, you can have translation by either professor sahib singh jee or faridkot teeka.

Veer Anon jee, The best advice I can give is to start to learn to tie Dastaar (pagh) as soon as possible. Daas used to tie patka but since learning to tie dastaar I have never turned back. The comfort and look of dastaar is million times greater than patka. Since taking amrit I cannot and will never tie patka again even if playing sports. There is no point in delaying to wear pagh, the sooner the better bro. For playing sports you can tie a gol (round) dastaar which will be fine. Also tying a gol dastar is very simple and comfortable on the head, you can tie one very quickly and it will save you of all the problems you are experiencing with patka.

Veer "jio" jee, It is farz (duty) to do nitnem banees for every amritdhari. There are various rehitnames/maryada that state one must do 5 bania (sri Jap sahib, sri Jaap sahib, Tav Parsad Savaiye, sri Choupai Sahib and sri Anand Sahib) at amritvela in addition to sri Rehras Sahib and sri Sohila Sahib. Nitnem banees provide a foundation for Gursikhs and it should be priority of every Gursikh to complete these banees everyday. From this foundation we can increase our spiritual level by adding more banees i.e. sri Sukhmani Sahib, sri Asa ki // e.t.c. Of course it is vital also to engage in Naam Abhiyaas at amritvela and as much as one can do for the rest of the day. Samparda's/Taksal/AKJ/SGPC Maryada all stress the importance of these banees (although SGPC mentions 3 bania at amritvela instead of 5 bania) and many great Gursikhs such as Sant Gurbachan Singh jee Bhindranwale, Bhai Randheer Singh jee, Sant Attar Singh jee Mastuane Wale e.t.c. Sant Amir Singh jee from bhai Mani Singh Taksal mentions that panj granthi (sri Asa ki vaar, Sri Sukhmani Sahib, sri Oankaar, sri Sidh Gosht, Baavan Akhri) were standard for puratan Gursikhs. However in this Kaljug, amritdharis "cannot find the time" or make other excuses for not even doing prescribed minimum banees set out in various maryada. I do not think it is any coincidence that the current state of the panth is a reflection of the weakness in amritvela and rehit. If we want to get the chardi kala for the panth and for ourselves it is vital that we at the very least wake up at amritvela, do prescribed nitnem banees, naam abhiyaas and keep Rehit given by panj piare. As for smadhi and other spiritual stages should not interfere with our Rehit or Nitnem. In fact, as we progress spiritually it seems logical that our nitnem banees will increase and our naam abhiyaas will increase. May Guru Sahib bless this moorakh and other veers/bhains with Gurbani and Naam Abhiyaas. Satguru Mehar Karan.

There is regular santhiya givern at Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib. The santhiya has beginner, intermediate and advanced levels as well as training in dooing paath of larivaar saroop of maharaj.

What else was destroyed or looted? Many sacred manuscripts were either destroyed or looted during operation bluestar with the burning of the Sikh Reference Library. Many puratan (old) handwritten copies of sri Guru Granth Sahib were collected at the Sikh Reference Library post 1947. Some of these saroops were said to be written by Sikhs of Guru Sahib. I have read that the library contained over 400 saroops. However knowbody knos to date whether they were looted and stored by the Indian government or shaheed (burnt in fire). The SGPC has not done enough in regards to finding the truth behind what happened. The SGPC should be continuously pursuing the Indian government in regards any items that were looted. Saying this however, what can we expect from to receive from the same Government that carried out this horrible attack. We still have not yet received justice for victims of 1984. The scars of 1984 are still fresh in the Sikh hearts. So many crimes were committed by individuals who are have not recieved any punishment in this world. However, we will all have to face Dharam Rai in the next world in the true court. There is no hiding there, justice will be done. Satguru Mehar Karan. Panth nuu chardi kala baksho.

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No matter what, without bhari (heavy) abhiyaas of naam and simran we cannot achieve our spiritual goals. Prem is not the only factor in simran and bhagti. Along with bhagti we need to have a good jeevan in which we abstain from sins and live an honest life. We need to follow bachans of Guru Sahib including Rehit. We need to make the effort to do simran and paath. Without heavy abhiyaas we cannot build the prem required for bhagti. Dhiyaan (concentration) is another important factor in simran. We must listen to the dhuni (sound) of Naam with great concentration. Once a Gursikh realises that one has to do paath with prem, shardha, dhiyaan e.t.c. then they will make faster spiritual progress. Many of us will not have the prem required for bhagti . Therefore we must indulge in Gurbanee Paath, Kirtan and Simran to increase our prem, vairaag and shardha. Satguru Mehar Karan.

Veer N30Singh jee, Waheguru jee kaa khalsa, Waheguru jee kee fateh! It is disappointing that you feel the need to attack Jatha in your posts. What wrong have they done to you? Quote: "simran which supposed to be full with emotions- loving/vahiguroo guru sahib di yaad vich/bairaag ch/vahiguroo milaap ch (pure sufism style love) is been reduced to robotic systematic simran without any emotions where mindset is more concerned about getting small kicks by hyper ventilating during simran," Are you antarjamee? How do you know that those japping naam with this vidhee do not have prem, vairaag? I guess only those from Samparda/Taksal have prem and vairaag in simran. Your writings are clearly biased. Who are we to judge whether another Gursikh is not doing Naam Japp with prem or vairaag. Prem and vairaag are vital for japping naam whether we are doing simran saas giraas, surti, hirda, nabhi e.t.c. Bhai sahib and countless other Gursikhs japped naam saas-giraas and reached high levels of spirituality. From the outside it may have looked that bhai sahib and other Gurmukh pyare were just doing some "robotic systematic simran" but we cannot see the khel inside the hirda of these mahapurakhs. If a Gursikh is not japping naam with prem, vairaag e.t.c. that is there individual shortcoming and not the fault of Jatha. Veer jee, daas can guarantee that Jatha has not reduced simran to robotic practice. A serious Gursikh from Jatha will definitely japp naam with prem, shardha, dhyaan, especially if they have read bhai sahibs books. Daas can guarantee that many Jatha Gursikhs are japping naam in sangat form at amritvela with pyaar and vairaag. There is no need to worry. If you have doubts maybe you should ask Jatha Gursikhs directly if they have prem inside when they are japping naam. What is important is that Jatha is not forcing anyone else to japp naam saas-giraas. One may japp Naam how they please. Jatha however considers the vidhee given by panj piare to be fundamental to japping naam that is all. If anyone does not agree with this that is fine and they can continue to japp naam as they wish. Even if Gursikhs are japping naam in robotic style at least they are japping naam! May Guru Sahib do bakshish and bless Gursikhs from all Sampardas/Taksals/Jathebandis to japp naam with pyaar, shardha and vairaag. Satguru Kirpa Karan!

Does anyone know the time and date for santhiya at edward st Gurdwara? Dhanvaad.

Quote - "No person can be called panthic gursikh if he preaches doubts about our father Guru Bani IMHO!" Veer Pal jeeo, the SGPC Rehit Maryada states : Article XI a. The reading of the whole Guru Granth Sahib (intermittent or non-stop) may be concluded with the reading of Mundawani or the Rag Mala according to the convention traditionally observed at the concerned place. Veer jeeo all I can say it is your misfortune if you think Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh jee is not a "Panthic" Gursikh. Maybe it is better you keep opinions like this to yourself because as you well know, there are many Gursikhs from Jatha and outside of Jatha who have great respect and pyaar for bhai sahib. Jathedaars and senior Gursikhs from the Smaparda's/Taksal have respect and pyaar for Bhai Sahib and consider him a Panthic Gursikh. Why? Because those that japp Naam love others that japp Naam. Those that are intoxicated in the colours of Naam do not let such differences come between them. Daas has no doubt that if you were to ask any of the Jathedaars of Sevapanthi, Taksal, Nirmale, Udasi, Jathedars of Takhts and other Jathebandis they would all consider bhai sahib a Panthic Gursikh.

What to say.......................... Truly this is Kaljug when Mahaan Panthic Gursikh Bhai, Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh jee is being slandered on topic called "Nice Simran Jugtee". This thread stared off great but has turned into something else. If Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh jee is not a panthic Gursikh then who is? - 16 years in jail, living without food and water for 40 days in the summer heat of India, keeping Rehit at all costs, tortured by prison guards, taken away from his family....................................................................................................... Bhai Sahib is the only Gursikh to be honoured by all 4 original takhts. Bhai Sahib was a rehitvaan Gursikhs that stayed intoxicated in the colours of Naam and Bani. They did kirtan for hours on end. The rainsabais of bhai sahib's time are legendary lasting for over 24 hours! Bhai Sahib wrote many books on Gurmat which are still being read and inspiring youth today. Sant Gurbachan Singh jee Bhindranwale knew bhai sahib did not believe in Ragama yet still look at the prem Sant ji had for bhai sahib: ਦਿੱਹਲੀ ਮੇ ਰਕਾਬ ਗੰਜ ਕੰਧ ਢਾਹੀ ਫਿਰੰਗੀ, ਸਿੰਘ ਸਾਵਧਾਨ ਜਾਗੇ ਸੀਸਾਂ ਤਾਈਂ ਲਾਵਨੇ । In Dehli, foreigners (the British) tore down a wall at Gurdwara Sahib Rakab Ganj, the Singhs ( Bhai Sahibs Jatha) became aware of this and were ready to die to protect the Gurdwara Sahib. ਭਾਈ ਰਣਧੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਸੀਸ ਦੇਣ ਆਪ ਗਏ, ਕੰਧ ਉਸਰਾਲੀ ਫੇਰ ਮੋਨੀ ਘਬਰਾਵਨੇ । Bhai Randhir Singh went himself to give his life and protect the Gurdwara Sahib, ਸੰਤ ਰਣਧੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਨਾਮੁ ਲਿਵਲਾਈ ਜਿਨਾਂ, ਕੀਰਤਨ ਅਖੰਡ ਕਰੈ ਮਨ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਾਵਨੇ । Sant Randhir Singh is a Naam Abhiaasee Gurmukh, and does Akhand Keertan to his heart's content ਸਤਰਾਂ ਸਾਲ ਜੇਲ ਕਟੀ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਬੀਚ ਛਕੈ, ਧੰਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਮਨ ਤਨ ਰੰਗ ਗਾਵਨੇ ।।੭੭ ।। For 17 years he was imprisoned but still kept a strong Sarblohi Pehra, Great and Blessed are those beloved Gumukhs that are physically and mentally imbued with the love of Akaal Purakh. The above peom is written in "Gurmat Parkash" written by Sant Gurbachan Singh jee Bhindranwale. Also this is what Bhagat Jaswant Singh jee currently resding in Toronto and one of the most respected students of Taksal writes: ਪਰਮਪੂਜਨੀਕ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਰਸੀਏ ਮਹਾਨ ਕੀਰਤਨੀਏ ਪੂਰਨ ਮਹਾਂਪੁਰਖ ਭਾਈ ਰਣਧੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ Worthy of great respect and honour, Bhai Sahib the one that gets great sweetness from Gurbani, The Great Keertani, Complete Mahapurkh Bhai Randhir Singh Sahib Jee. Senior Gursikhs from Taksal respect bhai sahib and vice versa, Giani Takhur Singh jee spoke about the pyar between Taksal and AKJ in their recent visit to UK. No wonder the panth is where it is. Instead of doing simran and paath and vichaar of Gurbani we instead waste time on issues that have been discussed a million times and bear no fruit. Maybe it is better to focus on our own jeevan. Slandering our elder brothers is not according to Gurmat. Lets learn from our elder Gursikh brothers who had immense prem for each other despite differences. Those who have intense Naam Abhiyaas like Sant jee and Bhai Sahib never let differences become between them. The problem today is that unlike Sant jee and bhai sahib we have no kamaee. All this is just time wasted which would be better spent on Gurmat Vichaar or NaamSimran/Paath. I urge the admin to give warnings or close such threads that cause friction and hate. All I can say is that, Satguru Mehar Karan! Sikh Panth nuu Sumat Bakshi! Waheguru jee ka khalsa, Waheguru jee kee fateh!

Tuhada Daas jeeo, Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru jee ki fateh! Thank you for bringing this to the attention of the sangat. It is is very disappointing that some members are mocking you for bringing this to the attention of the sangat. All I can say is to ignore them. You have bought this to the attention of the sangat and now we can discuss whether this ghee is acceptable or not in a Gurmat manner with pyaar. There is no need for name calling. Rehit is the lifeline of a Gursikh, from the day we take amrit until the day we leave our human body we strive to obey the hukams of the Panj Piare. Those that take Rehit seriously will more likely have a good Gursikhi jeevan i.e. amritvela, naam abhiyaas, strong nitnem.................................... As for ghee, if this was made from scratch at the Gurdwara there would be no problem. What is happening is that Gurdwaras are trying to finding the easiest and fastest way to prepare food. However if all the food in langar was made from from scratch these problems would be avoided. Nowadays some Gurdwaras obtain such foods such as jalebis from shops which is wrong. How do we know what kind of sucham these shops keep and also meat is also prepared in some indian sweet shops. We need to get back to basics. Instead of making lots of foods for langar keep it simple and fresh. 1 Daal, 1 Saabji, Yoghurt and kheer all use made using fresh ghee and fresh ingredients. Also another important ingredient for langar is naam and baani, Those preparing langar such also do paath and naam abhiyaas instead of gossip and general conversations. All deserts - gulan jaam, jalebi, barfi e.t.c. should be made at the langar kitchen and not from outside. Ghee should be made by the sevadaars also to ensure sucham. I am sure Guru Sahib would have encouraged Gursikhs to prepare fresh food and maintain high level of sucham. Remember this is Guru Ka Langar. Satguru Mehar Karan!