VanHelsingh

The reason the debate will be controversial, is because it'll portray another "minority" group in the UK trying to "separate" itself from the rest of the public. It'll be seen as creating divisions, etc. Expect some racist white people to phone up and complain, and a few Muslim and Hindu callers "contributing" to the debate with sly digs at Sikhi.

She was "blacked up" with - I'm guessing - dark skin foundation in the before segment!!! :D

In this day and age, the only way to get sympathy for one's cause is to pursue matters in a non-violent way. The mass public have been brainwashed to such an extent, that even someone who has justification to rise-up violently is immediately and forever labelled as a terrorist or insurgent. Then, no matter how just the cause or reason for protest, the media actively encourages the mass public to turn against those making the violent protest just so that the protesters can be shamed into silence. Let me make one thing clear - I'm not approving the killing of innocent people to further one's cause. If one must struggle violently, then fight with the forces of the government & the police - the very people who are in the business of oppression. Cowardly acts such as bombing buses, trains, markets, etc., by suicide bombers is NOT the way to fight back. The Western world (and governments and media) is very hypocritical when it comes to issues like these. They seem to be in love with idealists like Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi, the latter who I have no respect for since his disparaging remarks about the achievements of our glorious 10th Guru. Anyway, I digress. This "happy happy joy joy" approach of everyone holdings hands, and marching in solidarity may be appealing to the eye and soothing to the soul, but long-term it gets nothing done. At most, it becomes a footnote in history or generates a few days worth of headlines. Blood needs to be spilt for progress to be made. I know its an easy thing to say and I'm not saying I'm readily capable of such things, but even our own history tells us that Guru Har Gobind Sahib Ji realised this very issue when he turned the Sikh faith from a passive, entirely spiritual religion into a martial faith. Had he not taken such steps, we would now probably have been assimilated into Islam or Hinduism, depending on who got to us first. One of the respected brothers on sikhsangat.com (dalsingh) made a similar point in a thread last week, when he highlighted the missing martial spirit in modern-day Sikhs, and how we must return to those classic ideals of being ready to give one's life for a just cause. I was very cautious about this approach, and I stated it was easy to make such bold declarations from within the comfort of our homes. BUT having had time to reflect on certain issues (and learning more about Sant Bhindrawale Ji's life), I'm inclined to agree 100% that there is something severely lacking in our collective psyche. This maybe an unpopular notion in this politically correct world of today, but as the classic saying goes "You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs". The central issue is this: How to fight back? It was easier when the world was less advanced and when horses, swords, small-arms, etc., were the only "weapons" available in order to fight a war. It also meant an organised group could mount a successful campaign if they also had access to the same horses, swords, etc. Now, governments have missiles, nuclear-powered weapons, chemical weapons, etc., meaning it is impossible for anyone to rise-up and challenge their might. Effectively the corrupt can now rule indefinitely as they have the weapons behind them to rule with force - only the illusions of democracy, freedom, elections, etc., stop people from revolting as it offers the false illusion that we have a choice in selecting the people that rule us. If those who rule us wish to oppress us, they can do so and there's nothing we can do about it. Such practices are happening, but in a very sly and subtle way so that we ourselves are giving our governments the permission to reduce our freedoms - and we don't even know we're doing it! Anyway as for the original poster's question, the media has reduced the student fees protests to a very murky, questionable course of action. Images of the Cenotaph being urinated on, and the future King and his consort being attacked are deliberately circulated to prevent sympathy for those protesting. Unfortunately the mass public falls for this subtle smear campaign, and even a cause that is entirely just, i.e. protesting the rise in student fees, is immediately viewed as troublesome and unnecessary. That's why I believe that for a modern "war" to be fought successfully, the media is arguably the most important battlefield. Only when our people (I'm referring to Sikhs) become articulate with the pen and the spoken word, and savvy in the ways of the modern world, can any progress be made.

It just goes to show that however far India thinks it has progressed, there's still a very disturbing mindset that is alien to most right-minded people.

That's a good point. Such dreams DO occur after amritvela - why are we susceptible to these nightmares after this particular time? Why don't such dreams happen immediately upon sleeping?

At the risk of being blunt, ask her if she still has hang-ups about her previous relationships, i.e. unresolved feelings. Don't accuse her of anything untoward or suggest she's acting unfavourably towards you. Ask her if she really wants to be with you. This is YOUR life too - if you bite your tongue now when your heart is telling you that something isn't quite right, you'll regret it later if things turn sour. Remember, take a mental note of what she doesn't say rather than preoccupy yourself with the answer you do receive. Sometimes its the unspoken things that are most telling, i.e. answers being avoided. OR she could just be a thoroughly decent girl who doesn't want to reveal too much before marriage, due to her past misfortune with relationships? Maybe she's trying to figure what you should (and should not) know before she opens her heart to you in a way that would please you? So many possible issues - and I'm sure there's a few other reasons that haven't crossed any of our minds!

Okay, thank-you for checking. Its always good to see or hear a positive Sikh representative on the national stage.

I wouldn't put anything past the Indian government. They're a despicable lot heading for an almighty fall. Their crimes shall be their destruction.

Any chance of a video for those who haven't seen the programme in question?

Now if the original poster had even hinted towards discrimination or even the harassment of Gursikhs at airports, I would've been inclined to agree 100%. But it was a blanket statement - which like a few of the others seemed very ill-thought out. For the record, my reading is fine - you should concern yourself about your own comprehension of issues. Let's leave it at that, and let's end this matter by agreeing with your interpretation of the above 'flying' issue.

A similar thought has crossed my mind on numerous occasions, but I just bank on the sincerity of some people's intentions. Maybe these questions should be asked? But I know what you mean - a few topics in the 'Gupt' section are quite surprising. Not saying they're wrong - just a bit unexpected.

Put some mircha on your hands before you go to sleep. That'll teach you! But seriously, are there such guidelines in Sikhi that specifically mention this topic? If so, I would be very grateful if some of my learned brothers on here could reproduce those lines here. Thank-you.

:lol: - one can only laugh at some people's assumptions about skin colour. That ^^^^ video is amazing, though! :D I actually think its getting a bit better in the UK, but back home it's absolutely terrible.

A couple of years ago on a religious Baisakhi program on the BBC AN (when I use to listen to it), they had Tru Skool (or was it Specialist?) in the studio, and he was basically explaining the meaning of Sukhmani Sahib. It was a very good program - it went on for an hour or so. I really enjoyed it, but I guess it was geared more towards the youngsters who can't read Gurmukhi.

@ DustOfAllOurUrFeet - I completely understand your point, and thank-you for making the argument you have. But in this instance, we don't want our sister to drift away Sikhi because she hasn't the same enthusiasm as before. We want her to re-connect in the way she was prior to these feelings. If that means stepping back and re-evaluating her approach to her Amrit for a few months (remember I'm not saying start waking up at 4, 5 or 6 - or even doing anything un-Amritdhari) then that should be a viable option. Let her get these maladies out of her system, and allow her to wake at a time that is a) within the limits of Amritvela, b) one that she can sustain for the rest of her life. Remember she seems to be a teenager at the moment and has the rest of her life in-front of her. This is the age of Kalyug we live in - let's not have our sister so disillusioned with her stringent (yet beautiful) Sikhi lifestyle that she becomes tired of it at such a young age & completely abandons it in the future. I also said waking later is a temporary measure, as when she becomes comfortable at waking at a certain time, she can attempt to gradually push those minutes back until she begins to wake at 2am once again. HOWEVER, the approach of waking even earlier could be a solution, i.e. as a way of "powering" through the lazyness or the disenchantment. OR it could also be the straw that breaks the camel's back, if you know what I mean. I personally wouldn't take the risk. Also I think a lot is being made of our sister's sleeping patterns (possibly by me :lol:) - there are other issues that need to be examined. I will repeat myself (and agree with others) by saying that Naam is a huge constituent to unlocking the problems she seems to be facing at the moment. I hope my words aren't interpreted in the wrong way.

Maybe you set the bar too high to begin with? In your original post, you mentioned you woke up at 2am. Yes, this is technically the 'amritvela' time but in my life, I've only heard of Mahapursh back in India waking up at this time. They of course did Ishnaan then the full complement of Nitnem, and then they did whatever it is that Mahapursh do, i.e. bhagti, etc. I'm presuming you either study or have a nine-to-five job? Well in that case try waking up at 3am. In this way you won't feel like its such a mammoth task to continue your daily routine for the rest of your life. I'm sure the initial "buzz" of being Amritdhari gave you the motivation to wake up very early, but as time drew on and the adrenaline wore off, you began to feel lethargic or even overly-content. They do say that Kalyug deliberately brings us the sweetest sleep at Amritvela, just so that he can tempt even the most obedient Sikh to another "few minutes" of sleep & therefore miss Amritvela. Therefore pick a realistically achievable time to arise (within the time-limit of Amritvela obviously) - one that can be observed for the rest of your life, rather than a few months. Of course, if you begin to rise regularly and efficiently at 3am, then try - gradually - waking up a few minutes earlier every month, so that eventually you DO begin to feel happy to rise at 2am again. As for ensuring that you have peace of mind, you don't need anyone to tell you that Naam is the only solution. One final issue (forgive me if this doesn't apply to you but I thought I'd mention it): I've noticed that a lot of young Amritdhari Sikhs become very "pleased" with themselves after taking Amrit. Now I'm not saying they develop an ego, but some do begin to get slightly big-headed about waking up early, and observing all their Amritdhari duties before going to school, college, university, work, etc. Some even begin to blabber to other people about how early they wake-up in the morning. Of course some envious people don't like hearing how others are so dedicated to their faith. So I guess I'm trying to say that best not to broadcast to all and sundry your daily routine. Who knows how the negative vibes or thoughts of others might affect us?

I'd say it depends on the maturity level of the person involved. Sadly Punjabi society does not function on maturity levels (:D), so your guess is as good as mine. Mid-to-late 20s seems to be the norm these days - thats only because prospective guys and girls have managed to push the threshold to that level. If it was solely your parents decision, I reckon most us would be married by the age of 21..:lol:

Dr. Kawashima (creator of Dr. Kawashima's Brain Training) would respectfully disagree...:happy: Humour aside, I think this is another case of Gurbani being interpreted to suit the agenda of whoever wishes to impose their own rules and regulations on others. How ludicrous does the above statement appear? How shall we travel between countries? Whilst the original intent of the poster may have been honourable and righteous, the reality is that such statements only serve to show us in a negative light. Let me make one thing clear - I don't advocate some of the lifestyles that some people lead in the world today, e.g. I despise the Punjabi music culture (and associated temptations) which most of our youth seem to adore. Whilst I don't consider myself morally superior to anyone (and I don't dictate to others how they should live their lives), I know how I should live my life, and that is the most important issue. But identifying travelling by aeroplane and prohibiting use of modern technology by creating a tenuous link between these so-called 'evil practices' and the rehat of Sikhi is just utter nonsense.

Maybe this is another test to overcome on the way to becoming a true Gursikh? You possibly thought it was going to be easy sailing when the "final piece of the puzzle" dropped into place, but if anything its more difficult. I'd say that's a good sign wouldn't you? It proves that there is something special in Sikhi that can't be obtained just by taking Amrit. Don't get me wrong, Amrit is absolutely essential but Amrit alone (without knowledge of Naam, Gurbani, tolerance of mankind, control over one's impulses, etc) is not the end of the "journey".

From Sikhi Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia....a_Deep_Singh_Ji Baba Deep Singh Ji was blessed (particularly that day) with the might of the Khalsa. To keep his 'sees' (head) held whilst he fought, can only be achieved by an exceptionally blessed individual.

I wonder if the iPad is capable of displaying Gurbani files?

Punjabi Sikh Mother-in-laws (the husband's MIL or the wife's MIL)..........the less said the better (and this is coming from a guy). :D

Asankh naav asankh thaav Agamm agamm asankh lo-a Asankh kahaih sir bhaar ho-e Akhree naam akhree saalaah Akhree gi-aan geet gun gaah Akhree likhan bolan baan Akhraa sir sanjog vikhaan Jin ayh(e) likhay tis sir naahe Jiv phurmaa-ay tiv tiv paahe Jaytaa keetaa taytaa naa-ou Vin naavai naahee ko thaa-o Kudrat kavan kahaa veechaar Vaare-aa na jaava ayk vaar Jo tudh bhaavai saa-ee bhalee kaar Too sadaa salaamat nirankaar [19]

Whilst I don't agree with using offensive or threatening language to confront these people, you must admit that the average person (of any background) will think what's written by the girl above is fair. Sikhs who try to raise the issue of disrespect, blasphemy, etc., will be shouted-down and labelled as fundamentalists. Its a very clever tactic by these people to bring sympathisers over to their side. Whilst we mustn't infringe on creative freedoms (because that really is fundamentalist behaviour), when Sikhi, and Sikhs, are being affected negatively then its right to speak up and take action.

@ SarabhaPunjab - I agree with your sentiments but surely the anger should be coming from our sisters too? If the men are the ones who highlight these issues everytime, we'll have anti-Sikh troublemakers comparing us to those Islamic groups who dictate everything to their women & oppress them. In this instance if our sisters have anything about them, they will make their voices heard.