hsisingh

Before you get carried away by his ability to make a good speech ... the guy is a complete fraud. We live near some very close relatives of his....he is a drinker and a meat eater. He left his wife and young children for a much younger woman from India. His name is dirt in his ancestral village (if you any people from Moranwali - just ask them!). .... but he is now making a fantastic living as this great khalsa character. It is very sad that people are falling for this.

Do you have some history with this group? I don't know them part from seeing a few youtube videos - and in some cases, they seem to have exposed dodgy gurus (e.g. the Balak nath guy in Coventry).

Great programme! Is this the same BBC that was described on this forum recently as having an 'Anti-Sikh Agenda'?

I am shocked by the ridiculous comparison you have drawn. I don't whether to laugh or cry. Are Sikhs really so badly educated today? Clearly, history was not one of your strong subjects.

Before you pass comments on what I wrote, read what I wrote.. just go back and do it now... I did not talk about 'financial gain' ....... I wrote about how this Prime Minister's economic policies have alleviated poverty in India. Yes, poverty.. I also spoke about the National rural employment guarantee scheme he has introduced - which guarantees every rural household a minimum level of income.....and I also wrote about the reforms to the power sector which he forced through at great political cost....if you have ever been to the Punjab you will know the impact that power shortages have on farmers and poor people (who can not afford diesel generators). I am not suggesting Manmohan Singh is perfect (I agree, more should have been done to combat corruption in India)...but on balance, he has been a successful Prime Minister who has done many good things....and inequality has increased in India, but 40% of the country's population today have a middle class lifestyle where they can spend money (which in itself creates jobs for working people who can then feed themselves). If basic human rights rank so high for you - then you will agree with me - because some of the most basic human rights are the right to food, shelter and clothing - things that he has done much to improve.

At least be intellectually consistent. I'm not the one who is stereotyping a whole community as alcoholic, drug taking, <banned word filter activated> mongerers - a community that you (and I) originate from. Do you hate just Indian freshies? or do you hate the Somalis, Kashmiris, East Europeans and Tamils who now inhabit places like Hounslow and Southall? Some real hypocrites in our community think its ok to marry girls from India .... but then slag off those Indians (mostly men) who had the resilience and fortitude to get from India to here to find work. It's not that long ago that our parents were being told they smell of curry and to f*** off back to our own country. And please stop calling everyone 'fella' - it is a very effeminate term.

Good point. The African-Americans have a term for a black person who acts all subservient to whites ....Uncle Tom. I din't realise we had Uncle Toms in the UK Sikh community.

Your wife sounds like a wonderfully strong and intelligent person and you are lucky. You shouldn't have a chip on your shoulder about her background. Any person who can combine a tough rural life, defending their family and obtaining a good University education needs to be applauded. I know other people who too have married freshies and they are not as lucky as you. Be grateful.

I assume your family arrived here in the 1960s (or whenever) into a four bedroom detached house in Windsor?? Get real and read your history. The Indians (including Sikhs ..... my dad included) who came here through the 1950s - 70s were initially men who lived in pretty poor conditions and faced much racism from the white working class (remember, No Irish, No Blacks and No Pakis?). In fact, the trade union movement in this country would not let them join the Unions - so organisations like the Indian Worker's Association were formed. Many of these men spent their days working hard and their evenings in the Pub .... and they are the same men who helped fund and build the early Gurdwaras in the major cities. Those attacking freshies need to remember where they came from.

Does your definition of freshie include girls who come from Punjabi to marry guys here? Lol

Good news for Sikhs in UAE. New gurdwara built on land donated by Sheikh. Sikh prayers answered National Editorial Last Updated: Mar 14, 2011 On his travels across the continent of Asia, Guru Nanak Dev, the founder of the Sikh religion, is said to have traversed vast areas of the Arabian peninsula. Baghdad, Medina and Mecca, where he observed the Kaaba, were on his itinerary. Today, it is reassuring that the spirit of religious tolerance that he encountered in the 16th century can still flourish in this land. As The National reports today, the country's Sikh community will soon be celebrating the opening of its own dedicated prayer centre in the UAE. The Dh102-million Gurunanak Darbar project, opposite the St Mina Coptic Orthodox church at Jebel Ali, will hold 900 people when it's completed in a few months time. It is a welcome move for the nation's 50,000 Sikhs, many of whom have been holding religious ceremonies in their homes for lack of a place to pray. Sikhs in the UAE currently share the Shiva and Krishna Mandir temple complex in the Old Souk in Bur Dubai with the country's Hindu community. Thanks to the generosity of Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid, the Ruler of Dubai, who donated the land for the new centre, such makeshift measures will soon become a thing of the past. Just as importantly, it carries on the tradition of religious openness and acceptance that Dubai, and the UAE, has long held. Long may it continue.

It's not that long ago that you lot were all freshies! Or did some of you come over during the Norman Conquest in 1066? ...and I seem to remember back in 1979, when the National Front were marching through Southall there were plenty of sikhs with cut hair and "boat paghs" protecting the community from white extremists.

So the oppressed currently don't know that they are oppressed? Only a small minority of Sikhs living in countries such as Canada and the UK (who would never consider moving back to the Punjab because life is much more comfortable in the immoral West) can see this oppression going on in India?

I don't see why you are quoting that section from the Guru Granth Sahib? It is not relevant. where does it say you should not show respect at another religion's place of worship? I agree that it criticises Hinduism and its practices. Manmohan Singh sat through a ceremony in a mandir - possible because he is the secular leader of 850 million hindus??? . He didn't become a Hindu by doing that. In the same way, that your Canadian PM didn't become a Sikh by visiting the Golden Temple.....or any non-Sikh who pay respects in a Gurdwara or take part in langar.

I didn't mean to get personal. I just get very tired of people constantly slagging off a Sikh who has achieved so much and done a lot for alleviating poverty in India. He may not be perfect, but then neither are any of us.

By your measure, anyone who pays respect to another religion by attending a religous ceremony at another religion's place of worship is a traitor to their own faith?? What a joke. Show me where Manmohan Singh said."I am setting myself up to be an example to all Sikhs in the world."? He in fact said I am an Indian first. Your acheivements must tower over this man, who only managed to get from a village in India - via degrees at the finest Universities in the World, a successful career at the United nations, to become one of the longest serving leaders of an enormously complex nation of 1.2 billion. What is such a strong Sikh Warrior like you doing in Canada? Move back to the Punjab and save the homeland!!! I'll pay for your ticket.

Most of your points don't justify a response, but for the ones that do.... Why are you surprised that the Prime Minister of a country with a secular constitution says he is an Indian first? and he adds religion should not be brought into politics. Given you live in Canada, would you not find it strange if the Canadian Prime Minister said I am a Christian first and then a Canadian?? How would you feel as a Sikh living in Canada? Why are people like you so fixated on 1984? Don't get me wrong - it was a very dark episode for Sikhs, but if you don't want to forget anything ever, why don't you talk about Partition, Amritsar Massacre, Anglo-Sikh Wars, Indian Mutiny (in which many Sikhs died)? ...or the way in which Sikhs were insulted by the Canadian government in the Komagata Maru incident? In Britain, every year on Remembrance day the country remembers and pays tribute to the people who gave their lives in two world wars fighting Germany - but today, we are also part of a political and economic union with Germany and even jointly develop defence technology....we don't live in the past, but we don't forget it either. You need to shed some of your negativity about human nature; don't assume people who may not agree with your beliefs and views always have evil/bad intentions.

This is not just a Sikh problem. I travel and work in India quite frequently and there is an enormous problem with the quality of teaching in government schools especially in rural areas. People who are not qualified are given teaching jobs in village schools - and it is quite often the case that women who have gone through some schooling are given teaching jobs (they can't farm and there is no other employment available). The government at both national and state level has been trying to improve the quality of teaching by greatly increasing salaries and setting stricter educational criteria for these jobs. This has created the problem. The policy objectives are ultimately right, but their impact on some current teachers is clearly bad. Whilst the incidence shown above is horrendous......I don't think this policy/situation should be challenged by self immolation or suicide. Life is an extremely precious gift.

That is absolutely tragic and horrendous - I would not wish it on my worst enemy.....and looks like it happened by accident..... but can you explain why you say Khalistan is the only option? Why do you think Khalistan will do away with poorly developed education policies, rural unemployment and government corruption? The main causes of these tragedies. Please, do respond.

Regarding India's economic development and the impact of Manmohan Singh's policies, I would recommend the following sources - which all have plenty of reports which you can download for free: Asian Development Bank World Bank (World Development Report) IMF (Country briefings) OECD Planning Commission of India The reports can be quite big and have long sentences, but they also have nice pictures. The farmer data was quoted in the following national newspaper article: http://www.livemint.com/2008/11/11144441/Farmers8217-suicides-in-Ind.html To deal with rural poverty, Manmohan Singh personally set up the National Rural Employment Guarantee scheme in 2005 to guarantee some employment and a minimum income to every poor, rural household in India. It is the largest social welfare scheme in the World. Read about its impact here: http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/downloads/FP2P/FP2P_India_Nat_%20Rural_Emp_Gtee_Act_CS_ENGLISH.pdf Regarding the phrase 'move on', it doesn't mean forget. We must continue to remember and pay tribute to the victims of 1984 - and also seek justice by legal means. It means that don't allow it to poison everything about the role of Sikh's in India. How about female infanticide, drug abuse, bonded labour, environmental degradation? I would also recommend that you read some books about the Jewish Holocaust in Europe, so that you can get a better comparative view on what happened to the Sikhs in the 1980s and what happened to the Jews in Europe in the 1930s/40s.

Some of you are so perfect, that all you see is faults in other people. Manmohan Singh has arguably done more to improve the lives of India's poor than any other Indian - which we as fellow Sikhs should be proud of. Why do I say this? Because he has done enormous amounts to reduce poverty. When India's economy was in crisis in 1991, he was brought in as finance minister and laid the foundation for the strong economic growth that India has seen since then. That growth takes 30 - 40 million people in India out of poverty each year! Yes, each year!! Which means that India now has a thriving middle class of 400 milloon which did not exist 20 years ago. I am sure our Gurus would have said that helping people to get food, clothing and shelter is as great an objective as any other. People's lives (including those of Sikh farmers) are blighted by power shortages. He put an enormous amount of energy into signing the nuclear power deal with the US - that in the next 10-15 years, will transform India's power situation. I do agree, that he may not have done enough to fight corruption - but that will take a generational change in India. Corruption is embedded in every aspect of Indian society. ...and yes, farmer suicides are a major issue in India - not just in the Punjab. In fact, the Punjab has a very low rate of farmer suicides. Five states (Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Madhya Pradesh, and Chhattisgarh) account for almost 70% of all farmer suicides in India. Kerala which has a similar population to the Punjab had over 900 farmer suicides in the period 2005-09, compared to 75 in the Punjab. ....and some of you say that he acted in an anti-Sikh fashion, because he told people to move on from the 1984 crisis. He was right. In the UK, we had 40 years of religous strife in Northern Ireland that left thousands dead. The Irish people eventually came together for peace - partly by moving on from what had happened in the past - as did the people of South Africa (after Apartheid) and the people of Rwanda (after the Rwandan genocide). And to see what happens to people who can't move on?? Just look at the state of Kosovo, Bosnia and Serbia in Europe - countries that can't move on from their etnic conflicts in the early 1990s - they are still pariah states.

Well said. Too many Sikhs (mostly young ones) have become pre-occupied with political issues - often with little understanding of what is causing these problems. The worst are the ones who have a very smug, self satisfied attitude about just how 'holy' they are and how bad everyone else is!!

I was not writing in favour of him - I was putting foward a question - that is why I ended my point with a question mark. Thank you for your detailed response. Given your clear hatred of this man and what he preaches, I hope you are putting your words into action and doing more than just type about him!! I think he too is based in Canada - perhaps you should challenge him to a debate, or protest next time he is at a gurdwara.....or are you just an PC warrior??

I can't claim to be an expert on Darshan Singh or Sikh scriptures, but isn't it a bit far to suggest that this individual is leading some big conspiracy to destroy the khalsa panth? There is no religion in this world where there have not been various schools of thought about how certain scriptures or codes should be interpreted. Is he not just preaching about - in his opinion - the ultimate importance of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib in Sikhism? I have watched some interviews with him on youtube; he seems to be a serious individual with none of the trappings that one associates with dodgy granthis. I don't know enough about this or him, but perhaps you have some personal beef with him.

I just got back from Bangladesh and the Buddhists of the Chittagong Hill Tracts region don't have their own homeland and are persecuted.....and neither do the Mormons or the Scientologists in the US ..... or the original inhabitants of Australia and New Zealand.......In fact I watched an ancient Mayan priest perform a ceremony in Chichi Castenago in Guatemala and he also complained that their faith was being dominated by the Catholic faith in that country and they wanted independence ...... and let's not forget the Yazidis of Kurdistan. It's a big problem; I think the United Nations and the EU and Nato should get involved.