Not2Cool2Argue

I think education is very important, especially for Sikhs. Without education, u will either have to do unskilled jobs, be on welfare, or live as a baba which is freeloading off of gurudwaras. The thing with unskilled jobs is that they r disappearing fast, not enough to go around, machines replacing them, and u might be mistreated. And u might nor earn enough to support yourself and ur parents. Also it will create an image that sikhs are an uneducated lot, which alot of sikhs ppl care about as they have spent their lives creating the opposite image. Being on welfare is really bad for a sikh. First they will not be following hukam of doing kirt. Second society will look at you n sikhs as undesirables. This is becoming more important as most countries are becoming anti-immigrant. So if ur a load on the country, they might get rid of you. Also welfare and benefits could be cut off anytime. And hardearned money of ppl is being taken away from them thru taxes to be given to u. Thirdly, living as a baba has the disadvantages of both above things. Not enough positions to go around, low pay, benefits cut off any time etc. Also in the past being a granthi was a respected position because the granthi was educated, and would provide tutoring in gurmukhi etc. Fourth, if u r uneducated u cant help make decisions that sikh ppl will need to in the future. Such as can kirpaans be allowed in spaceships, can we eat synthesized meat, can we genetically engineer our babies, is capitalism and democracy the best types of governments/economies, should gmo be allowed in langars, should all langar be gluten free as gluten intolerance is increasing, should sarbat khalsa be online etc., should there be a sikh colony on mars, To help with these n other problems that sikhs will be facing, we need educated, informed, part of society sikhs. Fifth, you can help out more people if u r educated n wealthy. Also it isnt easy to focus on bhagti all day, all the time. Try it. On a weekend, try this suggestion given by bhai pinderpal singh: do ishnaan dress all in white, go to a clean, quiet place where u cant be disturbed. And do nitnem then do simran all the way until its rehraas time. Take a pillow or gadhi for ur back n butt. Also keep a water bottle nearby. And u get 15 min lunch. Thats it. Try it. Sixth, lots of ppl think sikhi is incompatible with modern life. And u dont want to spread such misrepresentation, i hope.

Ofc sikhi isnt against gurmat!!!! The Gurus were not just rebels against tradition, denouncers of hypocrisy, questioners of prevalent practices. The gurus did not just question and find fault with religions. Like modern liberals do. They also offered a solution, an alternative path, and the answers. The Gurus did not come just to condemn society, they came to bring a message, a path, a panth, a religion. How is an organized religion antithetical to wat the gurus wanted? Sangat is very much praised by the gurus. Dharamsalas, gurudwaras, and cities like kartarpur were built to bring sikhs all together. Also sikhs were to believe the same things, come to meet regularly at divaali, vaisakhi, sangraad, as well as meet locally at nearest dharamsala daily. How is that not an organized religion? As for the priestly class, we r not supposed to have one, i think. But guru ji talks alot about sants, sadhus etc.and meeting them and learning from them. So like, ya, guru ji himself gave us doctrine, scripture, code of conduct, ceremonies such as amrit sanchaar, commanded us to meet up regularly and praised the saints. So how is it that gurmat is not organized religion?

Someone sent me this: Symptoms of Spiritual Sickness From discussion forum Here are some symptoms that your spiritual Jeevan is in trouble: Slipping amrit vela and even attempts to wake up are not successful. Waking up consistently after amrit vela is the eventual conclusion of this trend. Increased time on internet and in front of TV Less paath and missing banis; no desire to do paath Dropping "small" rehits like doing keshi ishnaan, doing kangha twice a day etc Less concentration and ability to do paath and simran Less desire to go to gurdwara and stay in sangat Increased vikaar especially anger and kaam Rationalizing faults and mistakes in rehit as "acceptable" and "understandable" or "I'll fix it later..." *Root Causes:* Serious mistake in personal rehit Ego and pride Looking down and belitting other Gursikhs *Cure:* Ardaas to Guru Sahib for forgiveness Speaking to other Gursikhs about problems Peshi before punj pyarai for serious mistakes in rehit Going to sangat even if there is no desire. Forcing yourself to fo no matter what. *Note*: It's best to recognize the sickness early and combat it. Otherwise, things keep getting worse till you're in real trouble and recovery is a big uphill battle.

Ithihaas or history is what builds that connection. It strengths our connection to our history, our gurus and our ancestors. Another thing that helps with connection is sangat. It cleans the mind, realigns your purpose. To feel that connection, you have to make an effort. Sincere, hard effort. And society has trained us the opposite, that is one reason the millennial generation is the most depressed and sad, because we believe in instant gratification. Nobody is willing to put in effort to get happiness, we just think we deserve it and feel bad when we dont have it. And noone puts effort into marriage, working out, or anything longterm. Just keep complaining and feeling worse. Anything worthwhile will cost you time and effort at the very least, it may also require pain, money, travel. So to build a connection to sikhi, please put in time and effort into listening to sooraj parkash katha or ithihaasic katha or any katha. Sukha singh uk does katha of sooraj parkash IN ENGLISH!!! So no excuses. Its on soundcloud. Also attend sangat. I would recommend evening divaans instead of sunday divaans. Theres a paaras kala in sangat, it gets rid of the restlessness and anxiety that plagues all of us when we are away from gurus sharan. Now the month of poh is starting. This is a month filled with shaheedis.and sikhs retell and relive those times. So there will be lots of programs at gurudwaras attend them. You need to have two pointed effort: self study( listening to katha online), and attending gurudwara I have a question for u: HOW CAN ANYONE have a connection with something they know NOTHING about? so first put in the effort, learn about sikhi, and ur connection will get stronger everyday. You can also check out sikhtoinspire, basicsofsikhi on youtube. But the best thing is ithihaas, history. So sukha singh uk. Listen to chamkaur saka as now is the actual time of it. Also if u can read panjabi, read Sat Aukhyian Ratan by bhai vir singh. Its online google it

Someone sent me this: Symptoms of Spiritual Sickness From discussion forum Here are some symptoms that your spiritual Jeevan is in trouble: Slipping amrit vela and even attempts to wake up are not successful. Waking up consistently after amrit vela is the eventual conclusion of this trend. Increased time on internet and in front of TV Less paath and missing banis; no desire to do paath Dropping "small" rehits like doing keshi ishnaan, doing kangha twice a day etc Less concentration and ability to do paath and simran Less desire to go to gurdwara and stay in sangat Increased vikaar especially anger and kaam Rationalizing faults and mistakes in rehit as "acceptable" and "understandable" or "I'll fix it later..." *Root Causes:* Serious mistake in personal rehit Ego and pride Looking down and belitting other Gursikhs *Cure:* Ardaas to Guru Sahib for forgiveness Speaking to other Gursikhs about problems Peshi before punj pyarai for serious mistakes in rehit Going to sangat even if there is no desire. Forcing yourself to fo no matter what. *Note*: It's best to recognize the sickness early and combat it. Otherwise, things keep getting worse till you're in real trouble and recovery is a big uphill battle.

It depends on you. Usually ppl do all ashtpadees in one sitting. When i started doing sukhmani sahib for tge first time, it took me 2 hours to do the whole paath. So then I would do 1 hour in the morning and 1 in the evining. But soon i got faster now I can do the whole paath in 1 hour 30 minutes. But its up to you, how much time u have. My little sister did 6 ashtpadis every day and she finished the whole paath in 4 days. So its up to you. Its more important that you do it with love, prem, sharda, and with dhian than doing alot but fast and rudely. Try reading the whole paath n see how long it takes u then u can figure out the time

Oh ok

Its weird how if someone says anything against nonjatts it casteist, but if ppl say things against jatts, its not. I didnt even find ur post offensive, just egoist trying to big up ur own caste. But since we should be fair, all attacks on all shud be called out. I wonder if insults against jatts dont matter the same way its not considered racist to make fun of white ppl: cuz in reality they have it better than the other castes/races Also i think working im retail is a good job, nothing hard or immodest about it. Its better than giving women no choice but to stay home at all times like the muslims. Im pretty sure the women werent forced and chose it themselves

Im sorry OP to say there is nothing much you can do. BUT some things can help. I cant find any gurbani tuk, but u can use this nongurbani tuk, but most ppl think its bani, so it might fool ur parents. POOTH HOVAI TA BHAGAT DAANI JA SOOR, NAHI TA NARI BAANJH RAHE, KAHE GAVAVEY NOOR, something like that, I've butchered it but u can google it, its by bhagat soordas. Secondly, u can convince ur parents to wait until ur done with paraii/ studies, then take forever and keep studying for a very educated job like phd professor,doctotr etc then be like im too old, no ones gonna marry me. Thirdly, u can trust God. Do ardaas that the husband u get is prince charming or atleast perfect for u, and then get arranged marriage. Some ppl even if they choose themselves, end up in divorce or abusive marriage. Seriously there r statistics n proof for this. 50% of american marriages end in divorce and there was a blog on sikhnet about a sikh girl who chose her husband and then he turned abusive. I mean how much can u find out by dating? The first date is like arranged marriage, u dont know anything about that person anyway. So ya there was a camp counselor and he said he has 3 daughters, and only one of them prayed for a good husband, and he said she has the best husband. He said the other daughters husbands r good, but not as good as the one who prayed. Sorry i know not much help, but i will say most ppl who say they dont want to get married, change their mind. Everyone wants a home and family at the end and ur parents aint gonna be alive forever, so dont be so hasty to say NO to marriage. Certainly put it off as something not to be done now, but dont completely write it off. And everythings in hukam, so relax n see where life takes u.

Early twenties, the OP stated in her post

I agree with you that Sikhs shouldnt shame other sikhs, and sikhs should stand up for one another through the good n bad. Our trust on one another is gone, thats why we arent willing to sacrifice for one another. Watch simon sinek on this. But, what u said about Ravi Singh is wrong. First saying they go on holiday was an insult. Second saying he is gonna use up sangat hard earned money is offensive. The sangat gave that money to him for that very purpose. That is wat they want him to use it for. Also its extra money, not money they needed to survive. Money the sangat can afford to donate. Many ppl do fundraisers but ppl xhoose to donate to khalsa aid out of all other sikh charities for a reason, they want to support that specific seva in wateveristan.Thirdly, ppl do care if u help them out. A gora who Ravi singh helped out in floods in UK, that gora went to help out in panjab. And most importantly, i hate to be so selfish, but it seems the norm to ppl. Even trump felt no shame saying America first, the rest of the world may starve. It really is kalyug, me, mine reign supreme. Anyway u must have seen Ravi Singh documentary on BBC? That was priceless PR, other religions would give anything to have a piece like that. In america, sikh coalition spends alot of money trying to put sikhs on TV and give positive PR and spread awareness that we r not muslim. That documentary did all that for free and reached more ppl then we Sikhs could have. Why dont u guys realize that there is a religious competition going on? All religions r being judged and those who do good deeds or good PR are winning? Thats why islam and buddhism is winning. And most religions seem to be dwindling, so we must do our part to insure Sikhs come out shining in this competition. I hate to put it so mercenary and missionary, because Ravi singh certainly doesnt do seva for PR, but payback of PR we get is amazing. And before u say, PR is not needed, basicsofsikhi created Sikh PA for that much needed Public Relations.in the documentary, the best part is when Ravi says, "Not one member of my community said, dont help them out they're Muslims. Not even one, Im so proud of my community" and throughout it Ravi said, "it is my religion that teaches me to do this" My brother, no, please dont change sikhi to your limited view. It actually hurt to read this. Pearls before swine. That is wat happens when God actually sends down his true message to us petty humans. We distort it to fit our needs and times. Now i must say no religion, no matter how perfect can save humans, because it is so easy to change it to fit our narrative. We r not even goin through hard times now, no starvation, no hiding in jungles, and facts show Sikhs are most educated n wealthy and still we find it hard to be open minded, to follow vand ke shakna. I wont say more cuz i already wrote two long posts above n i think they explain wat i mean.

Really? If u could provide proof that would be great.i mean my dad who is very casteist, would be so shocked Also, the debate has finally calmed down, so i dont want to flare it up, but....And i must say it was resolved very nicely and humbly, so it seems we r making progress! But KPS Gill and Brar were also jatts, and they were evil. I read Julio Rubeiro's autobiography (he was the head of police in panjab during kharkoo lehar for some time) and he says KPS Gill would order more torture n more atrocities saying these ppl are jatts n u dont know how to deal with them, so let me handle them the hard way..(of course Julio could be trying to put all the blame on KPS to make himself look good, but again this is a published book, so kps could see his lies). And Brar in his autobiography even says that his family always served the government of india loyally, even during the british raaj, and he says he saw kartar singh sarabha and bhagat singh and udham singh as terrorists too. So if we jatts have hardcore traits, they can be used for utmost good n utmost evil. Cynthia Mehmoud said that while sikhs can be commended for fighting for justice, human rights, and being altruistic and there were amazing examples of bravery from sikhs in 1984. She continues but sikhs were also responsible for the most depravity, most of the panjab police were also sikhs, and they invented new tortures that became famous world wide for being the most atrocious. When we said they were not true sikhs. She said they say they are sikhs. So labels like sikh, jatt, brahmin are nothing, its our actions that matter. Labels wont give us the strength to automatically do good. we have to choose to do so.

This. This is the way to spread knowledge and support for dsasm granth. Protesting dhundha and dasam granth seminars dont reach the right audience

Also u r implying there was no need for the Gurus, the jatts wouldve solved all the problems of panjab, and there was no amrit di shakti that turned sparrows into falcons. The jatts were already the best. You even went farther to say, the Gurus only came to panjab cuz of the jatts!! Really?! I mean seriously?!? God on Earth, had to wait and hope for lowly peasants, jatts to accomplish his mission? He couldnt impart any power himself to lift the downtrodden?? FYI, Guru ji came to Earth hearing the cries of the distressed ppl, he is like a doctor who came to the worst disease ridden area, which happened to be panjab. Being looted, invaded for centuries before the gurus came. The muslim invasions started in 1100s. No rajput, jatts, brahmins, or even the kings of the time managed to stop them and save their country, land, or daughters from the looting and pillage. So panjab was suffering the most, in fact none of the muslim kings managed to rule the south of india. And then the Mongols came. You should read about them. They had the best cavalry and were the best horsemen ever. No one could stand against them from the Russians, chinese, turks, persians, no one. They conquered the world fiercly n fast. Only khalsa fought them, becoming good horsemen, crackshots etc and even then, it was the mongols infighting that led to their doom and Gurus curse upon them. Also u only have accounts of jatts, after sikhi was introduced to them. How do u know wat u so proud of them, wasnt due to sikhi? You have no accounts of the jatts before the gurus time. And if jatts r so great, then the jatts of bihaar, pakistaan, and rajasthan should be the same. Ur article mentioned that thats where jatts could be found. But there is no difference between those jatts and rest of indians or jatts n rest of pakistaanis. Even afghanis n pathans r proud to be tall, warriors, with arab features. How r jatts any different then other warrior 'tribes'? Secondly why didnt u list the non jatt contributers to Sikhi, if ur being so unbiased?

Are u serious? You would address a fellow Sikh like this??!? And then u would say im not being casteist, i dont think jatts are superior, while insulting others using caste names.. And if ur "historical facts prove that jatts were not converted to islam like other castes" then tell me when the panjabi jatts who are muslim converted? Recently? There are more muslim jatts then there are panjabi jatts

and Isreal is a religious country that has committed attrocities. Upto this point, i dont think we could say Jewish ppl had done any attrocities, but when they began to see their goal to preserve their race and their country, atrocities were done. Their end goal wasnt religion but country and race, things nonreligious evil ppl fought for like Hitler and Stalin and Mao.so their actions became less religious. And this is what Sikhi must avoid as well. In 1984, some kharkoos had great sense of morals, honor, Sikhi, and dignity. They would not harm the innocents. But some kharkoos got angry when some ppl just spoke badly about Sikhs and blew up a whole bazaar filled with innocent women and children. And cynthia mehmoud documented this in her book Khalistan, freedom fighters for nation. And i was ashamed to read of this. These acts under name of Khalistaan? And it totally made the question they asked valid, "how do we know when u get khalistan, u wont become another isreal? We all thought Jews suffered so much, they would never inflict it upon others. But they did. Like u they talked about ending oppression, freedom, treating everyone fairly.but how will u do it?" the jews did it because survival of their race and country meant more than their religion. God saved their race even after the biggest Holocaust, yet they were willing to forget that God and his religion, for a country. Now everyone hates that country. So never do antiSikhi or wrong things just to keep our ppl safe. In the old days, even in 84, sikhs loved to give shaheedis. Any reason would do. In fact sikhs would go do ishnaan at harmander sahib when it was under Mughal lockdown, knowing it would end in death. They would do it for a challenge. Look at Bota Singh Garja Singh shaheedi, lets show these ppl sikhs exist n do shaheedi. There were thousands of sikhs before u n thousands will be after. But only the shaheeds remain forever, only their names r known. So similarly,dont think that wat the Gurus did or Sikhs do for humanity and nonSikhs and for God's Hukam ( like 5th guru) is a waste. That will be more beneficial to sikhi than wat we do simply to save our lives and our raaj. Their shaheedis will inspire thousands more to the cause than those killed.

Sikhi is bigger than sikhs. Its about God. From the actions and life of a Sikh, we should see God and that God is good and kind. Most people are turning athiest these days and they hate religion. They think religions have caused the most hate, divisions, wars, death, and suppression of human rights. And this seems true if u look at other religions, Christians had so many wars, between christians sometimes like the 30 years war, protestant against catholic, they had Spanish Inquisition, burning of witches and heretics at stake. All because of religion. No need to provide examples of Islam. And Jewish ppl only see Jews as the chosen ppl and so they dont give rights to non Jewish ppl. In all these religions, woman dont have equal rights and if u dont believe in it, you dont have rights in those religions. Only Sikhi is different. It protected the weak and the rights of the nonSikhs as well. Alot of ppl, including sikhs, like bhai jagraj singh became sikhs because of Guru Teg Bahadurs shaheedi. Their shaheedi is a light that shines through the centuries and still guides and inspires ppl. If we fall from sikh principles to save our race, our ppl, our life, that may be only saved once. And centuries later ppl will still raise their fingers and point out the stain of cowardice. And problems will come again, and if each time we give up sikhi, wat will be left? Lets say Guruji did not save the hindus. Most north india will be muslim. Then now we would be living in either pakistan where our problems would include Taliban, no rights etc. Or we would have to relocate to South India and all of North India would go to muslims in partition.And u think 1984 was bad? It was nothing compared to our past. Also it resulted in a lot of good. Sikhs were able to get asylum cases and now live in almost every country in the world. Some moved not because of asylum but because living conditions in panjab deteriorated after 84. Now sikhi has more of a chance to spread globally, as sikhs know more languages and can connect to more ppl. Also it got sikhs out of panjab, before they were consumed with poverty, cancer, and drugs like panjabis now. Also 1984 brought a resurgence in Sikhi, alot of ppl like Ravi Singh of Khalsa Aid became sikhs cuz of 84. U know sikhs was gonna become all hippie, all religions are the same, type if not 84. It also united sikhs. So in a way its actually true, the more blood that is spilled of Sikhs, the more we grow! Stay in chardi Kala. Even in life, those ppl that grow up in poverty and hard life are stronger, resilient, and more successful than the spoiled kids. Sikhi flourishes and becomes stronger after every Holocaust.

Of course human rights are a political construct. But the death of zakariya or elites rejoicing mentioned in the blog seems irrelevant or i just dont get it. Supreme courts still argue if human rights are available to terrorists, prisoners, aliens ie foreigners, fetuses or animals. There is no divine right to anything. As long as ur political system does not stiffle ur rights, u have them Take the right to arm oneself, which americans are so passionate about. And in europe which has human rights, guns r outlawed

I dont think singhbj knows ur married to a nonIndian. Also i dont think by him saying "noone is a saint or sati savitri," he meant that no one was faithful. Thats just an expression meaning no one is all good. ....but I could be wrong...he has been on this forum for a long time. So maybe he knows. In which case...that was really messed up singhbj...went too low

Man these committees are getting crazy. These are the only 3 things u can do. 1. Complain to Sikh Council UK or another organization that has oversite over gurudwaras. 2.Try to vote this committe out for which u will need to put in alot of effort to get good ppl to become members and then vote. 3. Try to complain to charity commision that homeless members are denied food based on race 4. Organize a sit out. Get the sangat to ban this gurudwara. If u could just get half the sangat to not come one Sunday. The comitte will be distressed about losing so many customers as that is how they see the sangat. Then u can make them listen to sangats demands about replacing the granthee and langaree. But idk if they will listen to sangat abt replacing commitee. 7. Another thing u can do is offer to replace joginder and the granthi. Tell comitte, heres a new guy hire him. If they refuse then say we the sangat will pay these guys salary from our own pocket n gurudwara n committee wont have too. For this u have to work with committee. You have to think why would the committee keep these horrible ppl. There can only be 3 reasons: they r cheapest, they are related to them, or they cant find replacements. So see wat they want n work with them. Treat the committee like spoiled greedy toddlers who u have to convince to do the right thing by bribery. Ofc the best thing would be to get rid of such greedy dumb committe. But u guys have failed to do so. And judging from ir post which is just asking other sikhs to do something, it dont seem like ur gonna get anything done. Cuz other sikhs are like u. They have no enforcemwnt power either n the committees gonna get ugly. Like all committees do n bring in police cause fights etc. N sikhs r tired of fights but without force u cant kick these ppl out. The other way is if sangat gets together n boycotts them, and unity is a big problem for sikhs. So best thing to do is minimize beadbi. Work with committee to get those evil babe out. If u want too kick out committee u will have to do all the hardwork yourself. Sikh sangat only joins in at the end of the fight. Or u can work on advertising this problem to the local sangat n getting them involved. Its gonna be a long slow process. Good Luck A Non Uk resident

Do you guys mean Verha/verda? Thats wat we call the courtyard/ frontyard with cows n stuff. Like ਵੇੜਾ or ਵਿਹੜਾ

Guest its me, The word you used for garden "bhera". I have never heard before, can u explain it?

You r stuck in this same mode of thinking. A part of depression is when the same thoughts keep repeating in ur head. Another part is becoming apathetic not feeling anything, having no will to do anything, and just sitting around. So u have to break this cycle. YOU have to act n move. Start exercising, and go into nature. If u must sit around n stare, do in in greenery, nature. It will rejuvenate. And most importantly go into sangat, go to a samagam, rainsbai, or camp. This is the only instant cure, sangat is such a transformative, it has the power of peer pressure plus gurbani, plus atmosphere, ur mind will totally respond. Sangat doesnt mean wewkly gurudwara diwaan, it means going where u actually feel peace n connection. For everything else it takes time.Watch inspiring things, they will help. Try doing something, even a small goal, like going outside the hiuse, to look upat the stars, to say waheguru once. Do something, go out with friends, cook a meal with ur mom, get urself moving. Here r some inspirational: Learn to practice failure: This changed my life: So dont despair. See those days of chardikala as a gift not ur right. If god let u enjoy those days, be thankful, dont be resentful that he stopped, be grateful he gave u a glimpse. Most ppl dont even get that much even after going to gurudwara their whole life. It was a taste, so u would know god exists n wat awaits if u do simran. So if a rich friend lets u drive around their ferrari for a few days, dont be sad or mad when they want it back. Thats ungrateful. You should thank them for letting u use it when u have no right to it. Same with god n anand. Its his gift, we cant demand it or resent him for withholding it. Its his grace, kirpa he gives to who he wants. Now that you have realized how 99% of humanity lives a tasteless, boring, soul crushingly purposeless life, run to guru jis sanctuary and beg for a guru oriented life. Do ardaas, beg him, to bless u again, to keep u in his charan, say O Guruji, u gave me such a daat, i thank u for it, please make me worthy of it again, without ur kirpa i cant even be a proper sikh, please help me, get me out. If nothing else, at least do heartfelt beantiyan begging god to help u. Ardaas is our strongest and only tool that can work with God. Cuz wat else do we have that we can give or offer or bribe the creator of the universe with?

Read sooraj parkash, its available in english now from turiya charity. Also bhai vir singhs kalghidhar chaamatkar, idk if its available english

There was a poster on this forum a few years ago. His name was Manpreet Singh or Mandeep Singh, ive forgotten it. He had converted into Sikhi from a hindu. And he would post articles on here about hindu boys who had turned amritdhari and joined the khalistan movement. I think you should still be able to search those articles on this forum. So if hindus joined this movement (there was also a muslim who joined btw. His story is inspirational. He was a black cat sent to infilterate one of the units, but he was so inspired, he joined them. He was tortured n shaheed ofc i think his name was lashman singh) anyway if hindus were joining, im sure pappaas were too. And u cant really blame them. The movement started with water rights, look at anandpur sahib resolution, mostly about water and land things, which affect the rural population. But when the delhi pograms happened, they were most affected. Thats when they realized, it was about sikhi. And most papaas are in the indian army, so all the army sikh ppl who revolted, the dharmi faujis.... The akjs did a smart thing, they formed a seperate group, babar khalsa, so all of akj would not come under suspicion. And now are probably suffering like rural panjab with their youth taken away. Also most panjabi jatts are muslim, which means panjabi jatt chose the invaders over the gurus and their original hindu religion. While paape have remained loyal to sikhi even living in kabul, afghanistan, pakistaan areas. Back then and even now. Also sharaab creates the most unclean, abusive environment.