fightingsingh

shastar vidya is a load of rubbish. Learn how to dance around with 16th century weapons.... oh yeh thats really practical isnt it? Its no different from those karate and kung fu boys that dance around in funny costumes and spend 30 years doing it but get slapped up like little kids when they get into a real confrontation. shastar vidya - yeh it looks attractive, alluring and too good to be true. In reality its no different from all the other fake con martial arts that you find out there. Its more suited to wierdo geeks that want to dress up like Nihangs with the full kitchen set and post pictures on facebook than real fighters..... makes me laugh when I see them. They remind of me of some geeks I used to know at Uni that did ninjitsu and thought they had some secret deadly knowlege and used to train in black masks etc. What a joke!

Tru say. What I meant was that these are questions that I have ... not necessarily that such personal info will be divulged here.

Definitely. Remember the Indian agencies work in all kinds of different ways... divide and rule.. giving people tip offs so that they act and in doing so fulfil a certain agenda. Sometimes they frame people. They also work through Sikh organisations and institutions. The influx of babeh from India in the last few years must have carried with it a level of infiltration and seeing that there alot of people who do their bidding without question, it makes them vulnerable to exploited by shady individuals with links to the government. My questions are: Who tipped off the Singhs regarding Brar's movements? Which jathebandi are the Singhs involved with? If they were directed to act, who directed them and what are their links? Why were these particular individuals chosen for the task/ what were their merits? Why did they make such a lame/ half hearted attempt on brar?

yeh but that wouldnt be a big surprise to me to be honest. Lets face it, most UK youth are not trained experts, and even the ones who make up the front line in panthic activism fight more like hoodlum yobs than trained assassins. Its not easy to kill someone who is fighting back unless you are very confident and know what you are doing. I give props to the guys who had the guts to attempt something like this and for sending out a message, however, still bitterly disappointed that they were not able to finish the job. Still they are bigger men than I am!

The formation of this new jatha basically just seems like the hardcore taksalis are splitting off from the federation. To be honest I think this is good for the federation as they are shedding excess baggage and will give them the freedom to actually get some constructive work done and actually make a difference to the community and the Panth. If you enjoy meaningless mumbo jumbo and the endless, circular dirty politics of Punjab, then you may take a keen interest in what the Dharam Yudh Jatha have to say. Dont get me wrong, the Federation is heavily political and a bit rough around the edges, however, it has a strong root in the UK Sikh Community, made up of normal, common UK-based Sikhs who became involved because of the pain of 1984 and the desire to do something about it. The Taksali infiltrations over the last 15-20 years have done alot of damage to the Federation, more then they could possibly imagine. I will be surprised if the Dharam Yudh Jatha lasts very long at all and certainly dont think that it will have any influence over mainstream Sikh politics outside of Tividale. No doubt the large number of Taksali youth that have gone over to it will become disillusioned with it when they realise that nothing is really happening and one of their babeh gets exposed in another sex scandal.

I like your attitude. There is an interesting balance confirming to cultural trends whilst also maintaining individuality and a sense of confidence in ones own skin.

There is no excuse in a country like America why Sikhs should not keep firearms. At least one firearm should be kept on Gurdwara property, the responsibility of which should be entrusted with a respected member of the commitee or a respected Gursikh/sewadaar. This should not be a difficult thing to organise and given the hostile climate in which US Sikhs live, it is not a far-fetched precaution to take. There is no reason why every Sikh home should not keep a firearm in the house as well, particularly in the US. Even in the UK, it is very easy to obtain a shotgun license. All you need is £50, a shotgun certificate from a police station, an approved bolted down cabinet in your home, no criminal convictions or mental health disorders, and a quick short interview with a visiting police officer to state why you want to keep a gun. For this, you may state that you want to use it for hunting, clay pigeon shooting, target shooting, pest control or rough shooting on farm land that belongs to a friend of yours. No evidence needs to be provided for these. This is in contrast to a firearms lisence (rifles, handguns etc) which are much harder to get hold of and you have to provide evidence of membership to a gun club. No such evidence is required in order to buy a shotgun. Guns which you can obtain under a shotgun lisence include single shot, double barrelled shotgun, and up to three shot pump action shotguns. You can buy second hand shotguns from £60-£100. If people feel uncomfortable with firearms, then at least consider crossbows, 3ft kirpans, machetes, slingshots and lathis. Even in the UK, we need to keep a few bits and bobs in the Gurdwareh and at home. Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Moreover, firing shotguns for sport is great fun and an enjoyable hobby

Its very hard to enforce like I said. For the Sikh Council to enforce it, it will basically result in the collapse of the Sikh Council. You basically need a separate body to do it if you really think that it is necessary. However, the body should reflect the views of Akal Takhat Sahib rather than just say the Taksal, for example. It needs to be more diverse in representation regarding its membership jathe as opposed to for example the current satkar commitee. Representation of only the Akal Takhat Sahib will carry much more clout and respect in our community than say a small splinter group led by a baba or a single jatha. Its far too easy to dimiss those as just being small violent and extremist fringes that are trying to bring Sikhi back into the dark ages (the opinion of many moderates), hence, if the groups rep only the Akal Takhat Sahib it is much harder to make that allegation.The focus should be on raising awareness and soft enforcement of Akal Takhat Maryada and Akal Takhat hukamnamas via application of peaceful pressure (eg letters), media exposure, name and shame and boycotting of non-compliants. Where appropriate, peaceful protests can be used, however, we dont have a great track record of peaceful protests as they usually turn violent because some of our guys get provoked and cant control themselves. The subsequent violence then totally undermines the positive message behind the protest. Thats why I think protesting isnt always a great idea unless we can force ourselves to be very disciplined and maintain a civilised and peaceful image. As a long term strategy, and something that the Sikh Council could certainly do is to work with the government and try to get laws passed which protect Sikh rights, including certain conditions which prevent beadbi in gurdwaras on account of their inflammatory nature and potential for causing law and order problems. Like someone mentioned above, the strongest weapon we have is public opinion so our best tool for changing that is our UK based Sikh channels and the internet so we should use those to our fullest advantage and watch the changes take place slowly and naturally.

It will be down to self governence. At the end of the day, Akal Takhat directives are there to be followed and not enforced. People should have the good sense to avoid gurdwaras built on caste lines and boycotting of these gurdwaras is enough if they do not comply.... in the same way we cant go around burning down the Nirankari deras all over the world, we can choose to boycott them. Kirtanis, dhadis and sangat can refuse to attend those gurdwaras that do not comply with maryada and awareness of the directives can be widely circulated. You cant really do much more than that. It is not necessary or practical for the Sikh Council to enforce rules on its membership. When the Sikh Council was created, many gurdwareh and other organisations only joined on the shared understanding that the Council would not be there to enforce political or religious views and/or maryada on any of the gurdwareh or other organisations (eg sitting on the floor for langar). Since the Council has been created to provide a strong and united platform from which issues affecting all Sikhs in the UK can be addressed, it does not make sense for the Council to weaken itself by chasing after its own membership with a big stick and trying to police it. That would only mean that the unhappy gurdwaras and organisations would leave, create more divisions in the community and weaken the national voice. Those that wish to see the Council policing gurdwaras and enforcing maryada are either very short-sighted, blindy following their own agenda without looking at the bigger picture, despite having good intentions. Or, they are downright mischievous and want to split up and weaken the Sikh Council so that the national voice is weak. The Akal Takhat Sahib has already set the rules. Its up to individual Sikhs and gurdwaras to decide if they want to follow them or not. The best thing to do is raise awareness and apply peaceful pressure on those who do not comply in the hope that they will see sense and also choose to comply. Enforcement is not possible as we dont have the legal backing for this in the UK and we will end up looking like the bad guys like we do every time one of these enforcement cases comes up in the News. If there are people out there that consider this to be too weak and want strong enforcement, then please dont harass organisations like the Sikh Council. There is nothing stopping you from just going out there and doing it yourself. However, dont be surprised if you are labelled as extremists and the majority of the community turns its back on you and with criminal records and prison sentences to look forward to.

nIce post... nice to get back to basics... sikhi is all about the basics!

I dont believe they are racist. As an organisation, they have stated that they are against fundamentalist Islam and the domination and Islamification of Britain. Muslims are a very pushy group who are constantly trying to suit themselves at all levels. EDL have stated that they only have a problem with extremist Muslims and tackle issues where there are institutionalised and inbuilt problems in the Muslim Community such as grooming, paedophilia etc. People tarnish them as racist and say that they are only forming alliances with Sikhs etc so that they can deal with Muslims with first and deal with other communities after. There is no evidence of this, certainly form their rhetoric. At the end of the day, they are there to provide a voice for white British people who are fed up with having to live with Muslim domination in their neighbourhoods. They would only come after Sikhs if we started behaving in the same way and causing problems in their country. By and large, and with the exception of a few nutters, we keep a low profile and dont get ourselves into too much trouble, which is the right way to be. The Muslims only have themselves to blame for the rise of groups like the EDL. If law-abiding Muslims who want to live peacefully dont condone the behaviour of their kin who are causing all of these issues then they should be combating these issues in their own community and speaking out against them.

Very interesting videos. Please post more. It reminds me of how brutal, wierd, confusing and complex those days were for the people of Punjab.

lol i thort u mite

yeh nothing to do with sikhi bro just general interest... iv never seen anyone get attacked by a sword so when i saw it i was like <banned word filter activated>! gotta post this on sikhsangat lol