West London Singh

90% of the songs about 'jatts' are songs taken from the epic jatt stories of heer ranjha, mirza sahiban etc. Only 10% are the rubbish modern dirty songs that should, of course, be banned. Think about it, many of the greatest Punjabi songs by the greatest Punjabi artists such as Kuldip Manak, Jagmohan Kaur, Alam Lohar etc will be banned. The 'chamar', 'tarkhan' etc songs of today have no historical cultural heritage in Punjab and so of course should be banned, but Bobby Friction is displaying ignorance of the history of Punjab by banning the epic folk songs as a by-product.

Every Sikh man, woman and child wore blue. Read any eye-witness account of the early Sikhs written by western and persian authors. They all paint a picture of Sikhs only dressing in blue. Are you suggesting that every Sikh was a nihung ? Every Sikh man, woman and child was a master of the horse. Do you think they were all nihungs ? Every Sikh man, woman and child was a master of the sword. Do you think they were all nihungs ? The term nihung simply became another word to use for the shaheed squads. The suicide squads. They were no better with the sword than any other Sikh but their intoxicated state made them ideal for meaningful dying. Thats all they ever were an that's all they'll ever be. Today, with the exceptions perhaps of the baba bidi chand dal, they are seen by 99.99% of Sikhs as drop-outs of society. Largely composed of criminals and drug-addicts but largely men that cannot cope with the working demands of life so drop out and join an order. It didn't take long for 'shiva' to come into this conversation but I've said it before and I'll say it again : The 'farla' in a Sikh's dastar is the flag that flies above our heads. It is directly in response to and flies in the face of the obligatory muslim 'tail' hanging down on a turban.

As Singh 1986 has articulated above, there is absolutely zero mixing between the bhatra Sikhs and other Sikh groups. Zero. Most Sikhs in Southampton seem to get on better with muslims and hindus than they do with the bhatras and the bhatras themselves seem to get on more with the council estate white chavs. Zero social mixing between the bhatras and non-bhatra sikhs in southampton. The language (dialect), traditions and cultural differences are just too great to ignore. In many ways its like a Norwegian Christian living in the same neighbourhood as an Italian Christian. They might both be Christians but the cultural differences are enormous.

My honest opinion is that we need serious scholars re-evaluating and re-writing Sikh scholars. To my mind, 50% of the things written by the accepted Sikh historians is either mistaken or plain false. What we need is western born educated Sikhs getting educated in, among other things, the classical Persian language, and visiting academic institutions in places such as Kabul and Terhan to gain a better understanding of our history. For too long we've been accepting as gospel either oral history or history written by second raters.

So Heer Ranjha, Mirza Sahiban and all the classic stories of Punjab are to be burn't by Bobby Friction ? :wow: Has Bobby Friction joined the Taliban ?

The exception to that 'port domination' is the city of Southampton. As all of the Sikhs from Punjab that arrived in the UK in the early 1950's came via ship, those ships docked at Southampton and London (Tilbury). Most of those Sikhs got off in London but a fair amount also got off in Southampton. As such, Southampton has a large old time Sikh community, mainly made up of doaba jatts. A walk through the city might sometimes give one the impression that bhatras dominate but that is not the case. There are 4 Gurdwaras in Southampton. Only one of them caters for the bhatra community.

My friend, there was a time when every Sikh man, woman and child was a warrior. Btw....what is a 'nihung' anyway ? The history books written by second rate Sikh scholars say the word 'nihung' is Persian for 'crocodile'. This is wrong. The word only exists in classical Persian but even then it does not translate as 'crocodile'. It actually translates as 'mythical sea creature', more along the lines of things like the loch ness monster and mythical Greek sea creatures.

I hear Jazzy B used to spend most of his time in England because he got regular beatings by tough guys back in Vancouver. Isn't it time he got some beatings here also ?

The It is indeed a bhatra owned shop as the surname given on the sign is one of the most common bhatra surnames. As for your other point, I don't know about their concentration in other northern towns but I do know that they are mainly found in the old port and dock communities of places such as Cardiff, Portsmouth, Bristol and Southampton.

The problem is that Punjabi Sikhs in general look up to people with money. They don't care how they got the money, all that matters to them is that a family deserves respect because they are rich. This is not how I live my life and this is not how I shall bring my children up. I will remind my children that it is impossible for a man to serve 2 masters. He needs to make his mind up. Either his master is waheguru or it is money. It can not be both.

My guess is that all the early Sikhs proudly had a farla in their dastars as it was the mark of a Sikh. A little historical context is needed here. Prior to the formation of Islam it was Christians and Jews that wore turbans. Indeed, the turban was essential for Jews as the crowns upon their heads. Islam, however, proclaimed that only Muslims could wear a turban as it was mark of a Muslim. The Pact of Omar subsequently made it illegal for any Jew or Christian to wear a turban. This essential muslim headwear was notable for it's 'tail'. For Sunni Muslims, the dastar must have a tail hanging down. Shia Islam, which was quite influential among the Sikhs given the cultural affinity of people such as Bhai Mardana etc, did not wear a tail in their turbans. Sikhs, deliberately had a farla in their dastars as it was the complete opposite of what the sunni muslims wore. Instead of the essential tail hanging down the Sikhs had a flag proudly going up. The flag that flies proudly above their heads, so to speak. This was a time when a Sikh was a Sikh was a Sikh was a Sikh. All Sikhs at the same level at the feet of their Guru. It was not, as it is today, a time when there were ten million different divisive orders each proclaiming to have their own traditions and cultures and historical reasons for having a farla. The farla then, is the mark of a Sikh, in contrast to the muslim tail in the turban.

:biggrin2: Care to elaborate on who this magical imaginary 'good authority' of yours is ? Anyway....where does this 'lonely unhappy life' business come from ? I'm intrigued. Not having led either a lonely nor an unhappy life I'm intrigued as to how you reach such a conclusion. What strange thought mechanism does your mind go through when its decides that anyone that doesn't have the same viewpoint as you must be: A Pakistani A Lonely man An unhappy man

See this is how it works. We're famous for being a rather uneducated and lethargic community. India and the Punjab govt are extremely concerned with the growing power and influence, and anti-India rhetoric of the 2 Sikh channels in the UK. Not being silly people, they realise the only way to stop this is to set up their own counter Sikh channel in the UK. They realise that as long as it is funded well by them, thus not requiring funds from the sangat, the UK Sikhs will stop watrching the Sikh Channel and Sangat TV and watch them instead. It looks as though there will be quality programming on the channel given the financial resources available and having the SGPC in Amritsar as a partner suggests to me that it will be a puppet controlled by the Badals. Now...of course, everything I just said is simply speculation but it shows you how easy it will be for India and Punjab to destroy all the good work that's been done in the last few years. If we were even slightly bright we would find out about this new channel before it starts. That way, if need be, we can stop it from even starting. Once it starts, there is nothing that could be done. The propaganda onslaught would be too great to resist given the fact that the older sangat will of course tune in to the channel that has money behind it. The financial accounts of the Director of the company shows that he has nothing more than £1000 invested in this channel. Someone somewhere...or some political entity.....is going to be funding this channel. Seriously we need to find out who and why before its too late.

Banning child labour without setting up a system of state welfare will cause a hellava lot of pain and misery for many millions of poor Indian families. Its all very well for us sitting here in the west to take the higher ground and simply cry out "stop child labour" but we live in a country with safety nets set up by the state. Our medicines are free...our hospitals are free.....they pay us to have babies....then they keep paying us to buy things for those children for the next 18 years.....they pay us if we can't find work.....they pay us to pay childminders etc. In India, however, if a mother or father gets injured, falls ill or dies, it is the earnings of their child that ensure the family, including any younger siblings, stay alive. For many poor families the fact that there is a child in the house working makes all the difference in whether the family lives or whether the family dies. By asking for India to ban child labour without setting up a welfare state we are effectively signing the death warrants of millions of poor Indians. It is a nation that spends many billions on space rockets and even more trillions on stashing the money away for themselves. If they had the will and the conscience they could sort out their problems in an instance. p.s Its nice to see former Prime Minister Gordon Brown has finally found himself a job as a junior newspaper reporter.

Coz it ain't big news. Its France. Nuff said. Look up the old thread of when France first introduced the ban. You'll notice a post by myself in which I articulated how France routinely disobeys all International and European Union Laws. Its part of their national culture to do so. In many ways France is like a 3rd world country. Arrogantly they do what they want despite knowing full well how what they do is against International Law. They then patiently wait until the case gets heard in the Interntional arena and they are forced to shrug their shoulders and back-track. Lets take EU Regulations and Directives for example. Britain enforces those directives straight away as if they are commandments from god. The pro-Europe French however don't give a monkeys about any of the regulations. They ignore trhem until the Courts force them to comply. Its part of the national psyche. Its not news because it happens every single day and will always continue to happen. It is...after all...France.

Quite honestly mate.....the surreal world of exams and marking of said exams is something that I will never be able to figure out. In my time, I have come away from exams feeling really comfortable that I did exceptionally well. 2 months later when the results came out I find out that I had only just scraped a pass. I have sat exams after which I was in total despair, knowing that I had failed. The fact that I had answered the questions I answered completely wrongly and not even attempted the other 2 I was supposed to answer suggested that there was a 99.999% chance of a miserable fail. 2 months later the results come out and I get a good pass. You just never know my friend. You never know. Its not over 'till the fat lady sings.

Oh dear. The irony of the 'muslim pork shop' obviously flew straight over your head. :biggrin2: If learning from the likes of you means being unable to string a coherent sentence together then you're right......the rest of us have much to learn from you. You are oh so more advanced.

Thing is, this is the very first time in my life I had been to Manchester. The shop signage was clearly not new so has been there a fair while. So the question is why has no other Sikh ever seen how wrong it is ? Like I said, to get to Manchester you have to drive right past that shop at slow speed. Therefore, every Sikh in the UK that has ever been to Manchester has seen it but wasn't troubled by it. That's shocking. Worse still, is the way that the Manchester Sikhs themselves have never been troubled by it. Now I appreciate the fact that most of the Manchester Sikhs...especially the Moss Side ones....are by and large part of the close-knit Bhatra fraternity and so probably didn't want to put any of their down in front of the wider sangat but that is no excuse. You don't find Jewish Ham shops displaying the Jewish symbol. You don't find Muslim pork shops displaying their religious insignia. You don't find Christian voodoo doll shops displaying the cross. This is as wrong as wrong can be.

Pakistani peadophiles spend their entire life being infatuated with and hunting young victims night and day. Hammertime007 spends his entire life being infatuated with and hunting Pakistani peados night and day. There's a good chance there's someone out there who spends his entire life being infatuated with and hunting Hammertime007 night and day.

Never mind red channel / green channel. Get a hammer and smash it to pieces. After the fall of the Khalsa Raj the British introduced, and indeed enforced upon Sikh Gurdwaras, the instrument that resembled the sound of the Christian Church at the time. Its roots lie purely in the French Catholic tradition of what Christians used to consider an ecclesiastical sound. My advice to you ? Get a rabab. If you can't get a rabab get a buzouki. Master the buzouki and then try a bit harder to get a rabab.

You certainly are on the right track. Your link there shows that on the 11th of November the directors of Akal TV officialy changed their name from Akal TV to 'Sikh TV'. And now your latest link (above this message) shows Akal TV telling the world they have nothing to do with any 'Sikh TV' and are, in fact, Akal TV. I'm no expert in these matters but if I didn't want people to call me Mr Sikh TV I certainly wouldn't change my name by deed poll to Mr Sikh TV.

Yeah that's the one.

So I was up in Manchester today. It was rubbish. Never been that far north before but prepared myself to see eastern European level of poverty and deprivation. I saw something else though that shocked me more. To get into Manchester, when you come off the motorway, you have to drive right through a very run down Jamaican neighbourhood called Moss Side. This neighbourhood also, apparently, has a sizeable and old Sikh community. So I'm driving along their main High Street called Princess Road and notice a Shop with 2 big Khandas on its signage. A big Khanda on the left side and a big Khanda on the right side. Between them were the words 'alcohol' and 'cigarettes'. Have a look for yourselves. Just do a Google Maps search and then a street view for 99 Princess Road, Manchester.

Language is a very powerful tool. You have to learn how to use it well. The word 'moderate' , to the average man and woman in the world, means level-headed, sane and fair. By saying in your title how the youths have defeated the 'moderates', it translates as hot-headed insane and unfair extremists have defeated the sane and the fair. The people you call 'moderates' are in fact the extremists. There is Sikhism and the tenets of Sikhism is all too clear. The Sikh youth you talk about are the moderates because they adhere to Sikhism without any distortions. The ones you call 'moderates' are the extremists because they think they can distort Sikhism to suit their own purpose and political beliefs. So extreme in fact that they distort it for the benefit of India rather than Sikhism. Thats about as extremist as extremism gets.

That doesn't make things any clearer. Never heard of the Kooner geezer and this 'famous' sofa factory can't be as famous as you think coz I've never heard of it. The only thing I'd like to know is what side of the fence does Mr Kooner sit on ? Is he generally known in the Midlands as a firm supporter of Sikh rights ? Is he generally known in the Midlands as someone that speaks up for the victims of India's human rights abuses ? If not, then you can bet your bottom dollar that he has been silent because he sits on the other side of the fence. So you see, a headline such as 'New Sikh Channel starting' is meaningless until some basic facts start to emerge. The sangat need the facts in advance so they can assess whether its a good thing or a bad thing. We, as a community, are known for being rather vague when it comes to facts. Here we are on this thread, still none the wiser. We still don't know whether the news is the best thing in the world or the worst thing in the world. We don't know that because nobody here from the Midlands is educating us about Mr Kooner.