MrDoaba

This tradition was fairly common back in the day but more or less fizzled out at some point. I believe it carried over from when people used to get married with Bedi, which is actually how many Sikhs conducted marriages until the modern day Anand Kaaraj was formalised.

Marriages were not actually performed on a large scale in front of SGGSJ, if at all - there was no mass printing of Saroops and obviously wasn't a large number of handwritten Saroops either.

I'm pretty sure they were still performed with a fire even after Guru Ram Dass Ji composed Laavan. Prior to that people still went to Pandits.

I read a Sakhi attached to Laavan Bani in which a poor Sikh wanted to arrange a wedding but he didn't have enough money to pay for the services of the Pandit. So he went to Guru Sahib and related his issue after which the Laavan were composed, and Guru Sahib said to the Sikh you will no longer have to rely on Pandits and pay any fees.

Which is ironic because Anand Kaaraj today costs like £5-600 lmao. But also this Sakhi sheds some light on how people used to get married and one can also deduce they still continued to use fire.

Of course people find this all very hard to accept, like they do with much of our history.

@jkvlondon point taken. I can imagine that tbh. I've already conceded that in hindsight it was a silly thing to do, and I concede again that if I was there actually witnessing it, it most likely would be a different story.

Tbh I have seen some cringe or super cheesy sh!t at Amritdhari Doli's. Though not like this.

Quote

There is formality of manners which is actually showing compassion and consideration to others' feelings, we are not meant to spoil another's chances or life through our words and actions that is antigurmat. the guy/girl who tries show up their inlaws is NOT following sikhiya of Guru ji but doing their own manmat to feed their egoes. What is wrong with him standing and negotiating or do as my kid bro did and say 'hold on Mum Dad; I'm coming , look Guys her folks are calling me '... and just shove the few notes he had in his pocket into their hands ...and go in the front door?

There will always remain a formality between them. I was referring particularly to the fake@ss things - the munde wale taking advantage of the girls side which still goes on albeit not as it did in the days of old. Even the seemingly strong minded folks back down when it comes to their kurms highly unreasonable behaviour. All I'm saying is that ik duje naal pyaar naal milna chaida, jidha bhen bharavan naal mili da. No side should act like the others aafsar and should have the right to speak out.

Come to think of it, I was once at a wedding where the munde wale actually literally threw the women at the door out the way and barged in - I was there too because I was a little kid. It was not pleasant and dangerous af. Needless to say we demanded maafi and payment later.

22 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

is Flypop safe?

Safe, highly likely. They wouldn't be allowed to operate in the UK if their safety standards were not up to scratch.

Comfortable, who knows. A whole other issue lol.

Personally I think stop-over journeys are better if the overall flight is better.

People objected to this? I suppose on second thoughts it is a little besharam. During Doli time there is often a lot of nonsense, perhaps this one was step too far but I still do not see how this makes a mockery of Anand Kaaraj itself?

On one hand as I said I can see how it may be construed as besharmi. But on the other I would say it's a good thing there isn't such strict formality between soreh - soreh, and kurm - kurm relationship - makes life a lot easier for the girls side who have to often endure bullsh!t from munde wale. Less formal the better I say - and I say this having sisters of my own. Previously I too was all about the sidha saada old school rishta between families.

Although I agree that climbing through an upstairs window maybe wasn't the best expression of less formality lol. Harmless nonetheless. Especially compared to other things we have seen recently and otherwise in the past.

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/being-black-sikh

Quote

You see, a young Singh from Canada had made unnecessary comments on Soorma’s hair. He had briefly been taking a break from wearing his dastar but still made sure to have his head covered using his dastar material. And people who hang around the guy knows that this is a normal occurrence (as well as a normal thing that most Singhs do). But I guess the other guy didn’t like what he saw, and instead of being inquisitive and educating himself about natural hair, he started spouting off at the mouth. 

“Your hair is matted because you don’t kanga your hair everyday. Why can’t you do kesh ishnaan?! Put some oil on it everyday and it will straighten itself out. What?! Your hair is never straight?!”

Good article. Shame that one didn't understand how the African hair type works. What a ridiculous and ignorant rush to judgement.

Gurbar Akaal!

Good video, basic sleep hygiene as it's known.

Another tip and something I've personally tried is guided sleep meditiation otherwise known as Yoga Nidra - there's quite a few on Youtube. I'll put the link at the bottom. It can also help to remember a time you were really tired and sleepy.

As for what he said about using a phone or laptop before bed, it's true that the blue light that they emit can disturb the ability to sleep (I believe it stops melatonin production). However, you can download apps which filter out certain types of light. I use one on my laptop called Flux.

Lastly, if you're really having trouble but don't wanna go down the traditional medical route, try melatonin capsules. I think they're prescription only now in the UK, but widely available from Europe. I haven't personally tried them but know some who have had success with it.

Yoga Nidra:

2 minutes ago, FreshMind13 said:

Which is why I mentioned where I base my knowledge from.

Most ucharan is 95% similar anyway, its just the 5% that is higher level. For the average person starting out, they should learn Muharni and the Lagamatras.

Apologies, I had the page open from before you made the edit.

Yeah most Uchaaran is similar. In one post I said even within Taksal there are differences so I understand what you mean.

Generally speaking though, the only major difference that would arise I suspect is the use of pairi akhars where there are none; Taksal doesn't do this...they tend to read it as is with the exception of adhak.

4 minutes ago, FreshMind13 said:

Your first example is correct. It means ਰਜ਼ਾ, hukam de razza vich chalna. While it isn't needed as the meaning still stands, but it's nice to use the original pronunciation of the word.

Yes, the root word may use a 'z' sound, but the Gurmukhi does not. Therefore it is incorrect to pronounce it as such.

15 minutes ago, FreshMind13 said:

ਸਾਤ. (Notice there is no Bindi on Kanna Either)

I've only ever seen it with kanna-bindi.

But there is some variation in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Saroops - Hazoori pronunciation is also different. Personally I will stick with Sant Gyani Mohan SIngh Ji's (Bhindrawale) Gutka on the matter.

I've made reasonably clear that I believe Taksals Santhiya is correct. If you have some other system then tuhadi marji.

Also, if you read a teeka of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, rarely you'll find it actually does mention if there was a difference in matra or akhar in a particular Saroop.

Anyway there's no need to make a big fuss, if you look at pothis from back in the day a good few have mistakes.

EDIT: I mean just look at some gutke and pothis today, they add in bindi and adhak where they feel like it, and that too deliberately. Why doesn't anyone ever point that out?

Jesus Christ this is horrifying, we must denounce the Maharaani and her family at once!

That was sarcasm btw. You are being a dramabaaz as usual without any facts.

Even modern day pothis have printing mistakes. On the off chance this wasn't considered a mistake (at the time of scribing) you don't know what source the scribe used for this - it could have been from a copy of a copy of SGGS. I'm sure some Saroops were acknowledged to contain mistakes or differences, especially the ones belonging to individuals or created for private use. This pothi may even have a panna where errors have been noted.

From all the main Birs in circulation a standardised version was made, which is what we have today. I'm no expert but I believe these were mostly the same give or take a few matre here or there.

Doing shudhaayi is important as is maintaing satkaar throughout the whole process...the rules are much tighter today.

35 minutes ago, nav88 said:

Hi I am looking for help with translation for the following text from Mukat Marg Granth.

Could someone help please.

It says the third method or solution for "giras rog - ਗਿਰਸ ਰੋਗ" is to do a Sampat Paath of the shabad given. I have no idea what type of illness this is or what the following lines after the shabad are saying exactly. @dallysingh101 can probably help you. Anyway this is the shabad:

ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Soraṯẖ mėhlā 5.
Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl:

ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਦੂਖ ਨਿਵਾਰੈ ਸੂਕਾ ਮਨੁ ਸਾਧਾਰੈ ॥
Janam janam ke ḏūkẖ nivārai sūkā man saḏẖārai.
He dispels the pains of countless incarnations, and lends support to the dry and shriveled mind.

ਦਰਸਨੁ ਭੇਟਤ ਹੋਤ ਨਿਹਾਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੈ ॥੧॥
Ḏarsan bẖetaṯ hoṯ nihālā har kā nām bīcẖārai. ||1||
Beholding the Blessed Vision of His Darshan, one is enraptured, contemplating the Name of the Lord. ||1||

ਮੇਰਾ ਬੈਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਵਿੰਦਾ ॥
Merā baiḏ gurū govinḏā.
My physician is the Guru, the Lord of the Universe.

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਉਖਧੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਦੇਵੈ ਕਾਟੈ ਜਮ ਕੀ ਫੰਧਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Har har nām a▫ukẖaḏẖ mukẖ ḏevai kātai jam kī fanḏẖā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
He places the medicine of the Naam into my mouth, and cuts away the noose of Death. ||1||Pause||

ਸਮਰਥ ਪੁਰਖ ਪੂਰਨ ਬਿਧਾਤੇ ਆਪੇ ਕਰਣੈਹਾਰਾ ॥
Samrath purakẖ pūran biḏẖāṯe āpe karnaihārā.
He is the all-powerful, Perfect Lord, the Architect of Destiny; He Himself is the Doer of deeds.

ਅਪੁਨਾ ਦਾਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਉਬਾਰਿਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮ ਅਧਾਰਾ ॥੨॥੬॥੩੪॥
Apunā ḏās har āp ubāri▫ā Nānak nām aḏẖārā. ||2||6||34||
The Lord Himself saves His slave; Nanak takes the Support of the Naam. ||2||6||34||

@Dsinghdp You won't understand the message if you can't pronounce the words correctly! In any case, santhiya is not just about pronunciation.

It's silly to compare santhiya and learning arth; both are equally important in their own right!

When learning to read in school, they always teach you how to actually read clearly as well as teach you pronunciation and elocution first. This is even when we don't yet know defintions and meanings.

Why should it be different for Bani? If anything this applies more with Gurbani because it's pavitar.

9 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

wud u recommend bhagat jaswant singh ji to those unfamiliar wiv the concept or unable to find an ustaad in their area?

I've only heard a few of the recordings (which are very shudh) but yes most definitely given Bhagat Ji's jeevan.

Nihung Santhiya also give lessons via Skype. Gurmat Veechar has some recordings of Santhiya from Taksal as well. Both excellent.

I'm not being biased but really Taksal are the leaders in Santhiya, and a lot of the good Ustaads in the UK are ones who have learned directly from them.

You will still find some minor differences depending on which branch of Taksal the Ustaad has learnt from, and some other small variables but it's generally the same standard. One sorta big example that comes to mind is the pronunciation of pairi akhars; some don't put emphasis on these (imo you should though).

Occasionally people try to learn from complete recordings e.g. the famous Bhai Jarnail Singh and while these are really epic recordings, you can't learn from them...they're still worth listening to just familiarise yourself however. Some recordings by Namdharis on Youtube too which are shudh.

27 minutes ago, Dsinghdp said:

I agree. Just go with the flow.

Don’t get caught up with where to add a Z. If you use it then and now it’s fine.

I'm not sure I agree...the way you have worded your post makes it seem like it's not important. You should only use it where it is indicated.

It's very important to know how to pronounce zazza (and where and which Bani's), but I have heard many people who don't have shudh uchaaran decide to put it where they think it goes, where it most definitely does not. For example:

ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜ਼ਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥

ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜ਼ਰੀ

Not only is this irritating but it's also wrong. Santhiya is jaroori; don't make up your own rules.

32 is a very common number for Jaap...

32 Brahm Kavach

32 Bhagauti Astotar

etc

Maybe it's not night time in the dream, perhaps it's Amrit Vela.

1 hour ago, puzzled said:

well i dont wanna be stereotyping but most mirasis iv seen in punjab have the master saleem, sabar koti kind of look 

i think hans raj hans is a chamar       he's another one who is obsessed with sufi stuff      enough of that   

i can't stand kanwar garewal  and how how behaves like a tramp 

dont like satinder sirtaj either   lol

Rightt, I see what you mean. Kuldeep Manak too. I find it interesting that we know little about Gurdas Maan's background though.

I thought Kanwar Garewal became a Singh? I know back in the day he was doing that Sufi sh!t as well but he makes Dharmik geet now I believe. I have to admit I liked that one that made him famous though, Mast was it? Just cus it was catchy af lol.

I cannot stand Sartinder at all. He irritates me the most and his voice isn't even good.

If you do wanna listen to Sufi, stick to Nusrat or just proper Qawalli man.

1 hour ago, Akalifauj said:

Every time you write a post directed at me.

LMFAOOO....that's interesting truly. Seeing at it's you who continously writes posts directed at me hate to break it to you, but you're not that important that you think I actually want to converse with you lol.

You should see a therapist honestly, you seem to have an obsession with me (it's not flattering unfortunately), and you seem to think I'm communicating with you...figments of your imagination. Quite worrying. And you keep calling me child...you must have daddy issues...Christ Almighty!

You're like one of those predators on the internet they warn you about. Freaks, weirdos. No wonder you can't understand English properly. You also have some serious self aggrandizement issues, most likely related to your daddy issues....evidently psychopathic if we're honest with ourselves.

Recently you said, but completely failed to adhere to :

Quote

But who has this much time to waste on a pandit.

ਆਪ ਆਪਕੋ ਰੋਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਤੇ? ਕਯਾ ਆਪਕਾ ਦਿਮਾਗ ਠੀਕ ਹੈ?
ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪਰ ਸਮਯ ਕਿਓਂ ਗੁਜ਼ਾਰਨਾ ਹੈ?   ਆਪ ਯਹ ਕਹ ਰਹੇ ਹੈਂ.........?
ਲੇਕਿਨ ਫਿਰ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਮੇਰੇ ਪੀਛੇ ਪੀਛੇ ਕੁੱਤੇ ਕਿ ਤਰਹ ਘੂਮਤਾ ਰਹਿਤਾ ਹੋ ...ਜਿਸਕਾ ਮੂੰਹ ਕਾਲਾ ਪੜ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ.
ਔਰ ਵਹ ਭੀ ਕੁਛ ਮਾਹੀਨਿਯੋਂ ਕੇ ਲਿਏ...

ਆਪਕੋ ਬਹੁਤ ਜਿਯਾਦਾ ਮੈਂਟਲ ਸਮਸਯਾਏਂ ਹੈਂ...ਸ਼ਾਯਦ ਸਰਸ੍ਵਤੀ ਆਪ ਪਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰੇਂਗੀ

ਤਬ ਤਕ.....

ਜੈ ਮਾਤਾ ਦੀ !
ਗੁਰ ਬਰ ਅਕਾਲ !

15 hours ago, puzzled said:

I think marasis are a mix of muslim and sikh. The marasi lady in my nanke pind is Muslim but goes gurdwara as well. She's like a post lady   hands out wedding invitations etc  

Gurdas mann doesnt look marasi tbh  sardool sikander, saber koti, master saleem etc they do

Generally yeah they are. Like the Rababis...they were still Muslim for all intents and purposes yet they were doing Kirtan, they did Nitnem, Seva etc.

I'm not 100% sure about Gurdas Maan...like I said I've only heard he's Mirasi. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. The rest you mentioned for sure, and Hans Raj Hans I reckon.

Btw what does a Mirasi look like? Lol

It's interesting...how some have the complete lack of ability to deduce from a short piece of writing. To read between the lines of, what is actually a very basic block of text. Shockingly simple minded.

For the benefit of the simpletons, I shall try my very best to write in simple English...given that their grasp on the English language parallels that of one who's had a lobotomy.

My driving licence number can be used to identify me. So can my NHS number. Are they the same thing though? No they are not.

A surname can be used to identify someone. So can a gotra - clan. Are they the same thing? No they are not. Even though gotra is used in a similar capacity as a surname today - because Sikhs moved to the west and live where there is a different system of recording. There is a very obvious difference in the use of surnames in the west and gotra; it's not rocket science.

In my earlier post, I didn't state that gotra were not used for identification (unless you're a simpleton and can't read). I only stated that gotra's are not surnames in the western sense. But of course they were used to identify - an individuals clan, his people, his location, his history. In most scenarios it was never really about the individual though. I mean sure there may have been a scenario such as: "which Harjap? Harjap Bhangal? Or Harjap Sidhu?" "Oh I meant Harjap Bhangal of course!"

But enquiring about ones gotra was about ascertaining more than identification of the individual. In the west surnames are about identifying the individual.

Surnames have been recorded for over a thousand years in the west for various reasons. Births, baptisms, confirmations, marriages, and deaths. All in an effort to identify an individual. Just look at the Domesday Book, the great survey.

Whilst surnames in the west quite possibly may have had the same connotations as gotra at some point in very distant history, they haven't for a long time. Surname and gotra do not have the same connotations. Yet both can be used to identify. Just like my driving licence number and my NHS number. Does that make then the same? I think not.

The only instance of recording gotra as a means of identifcation in an offcial manner (like the surname in the west) that comes to mind is, when Sikhs would go to Haridwar to disperse the ashes of the departed. Records were kept of deaths.

Or if one was writing about oneself...as Kalgidhar Swami Ji does in Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji where They mention that Their lineage/clan is the Sodhi Bans.

There is nothing wrong with knowing your gotra. There's nothing wrong, imo, using it as your surname in this modern world for the purpose of records. However if you have false pride over it, then that's on you. When asked what your name is you can simply say "my name is XYZ Singh" or "my name is XYZ Kaur" - no need to mention your gotra even if it's on your birth certificate and passport. If one enquires about, only then should you mention it.

Simply explained for the simple minded. SIMPLES.

Gurbar Akaal!

RE: Gurdas Mann and some of these other singers....they're not even Sikh. We just assume they are; they're from a Mirasi background from what I've heard. Neither Sikh nor Muslim nor Hindu. That's why you see them singing all this syncretic rubbish and going to Deras.

Because of the association of Mirasi's and the Panth, they tend to have some Sikh traits but otherwise they have no Dharam. All over the place. Gurdas Mann is a prime example of this nonsense.

I'm not trying to denigrate Mirasi's as a whole though. There have been many with uche suche jeevans throughout Sikh ithiaas.

Dhan Bhai Mardana Ji!

6 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

It's only handy for us to avoid inbreeding in my opinion. 

I still remember back in the day when you'd receive forwards on the old phones....this one is still funny:

Sikhs call it Rakhri

Hindus call it Rakhsha Bandhan

Muslims call it Valentines Day.

22 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I'd like to see these anti sukha lulloo puppoos that hide behind gorafied protestant singh sabha 'Sikhism' 'rehat' - if they, or a close family member, or their child had some serious health condition that might be helped by traditional Indic style treatments with sukha or even afeem.

I bet you they'd jump off their high horse really quickly then. 

These people make me want to vomit. 

Nail on the head.

13 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Is the complete work available online?

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/displayPage.jsp?ID=8806&page=1&CategoryID=1&Searched=

Also available as an audio book if that's your thing.

Edit: I just saw your edit lol.

There isn't really a concept of surname from an Indic perspective, it's a western naming custom. What has become surname today is actually gotra or clan. Which became prevalent when people began to immigrate to the west. Sometimes the surname is one based on family profession/occupation - not really seen this amongst Punjabis though.

If you look at names pre-Sikhi you'll find ambiguous 'surnames' such as Ram, Chand, Laal, Kumar. Quotation marks used because these are not surnames. People didn't use their gotra back then as a surname either.

I've looked at quite a few old land registry records, and I've never seen anyone use their actual gotra. You'll either see just Singh or the above names I've mentioned.

If you look at passports of bajurg who came to the UK, majority just have Singh and Kaur. But often you'll also notice where it says surname it's blank. Even Singh isn't a surname nor is it a middle name.

It's smart to use your surname today, for identification etc. There's nothing wrong with. As per Sikhi you're not supposed to be proud of your lineage or heritage. If by using your gotra one gets proud, then one is a w@nker. However if you're just using it because you consider it pertinent in this globalised world and nothing more, it's fine. It's only a problem if you believe in jaat paat nonsense in the first place.

Gurbar Akaal!

7 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

It is important to me because I strongly feel shaheedi degh and shikaar/jhatka are part of khalsa rehit.

ਬਾਬਾ ਫਤੇ ਸਿੰਘ ਸਾਹਿਬਜਾਦੇ ਦਸਮੇਸ ਕੀ ਕੇ ਪਹਿਰ ਅਕਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਆਏ ਗੁਰ ਤੀਰ ਹੈ ॥
Baba Fateh Singh, the prince of the Tenth Master, adorning the attire of the Deathless approached the Guru.

ਕੇਸਗੜ੍ਹ ਬੈਠੇ ਗੁਰ ਪੇਖ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਭਏ ਪੰਥ ਸੁਤ ਚਲੇ ਤੇਰਾ ਜੰਗੀ ਬਲਬੀਰ ਹੈ ॥
Sitting at Kesgarh Sahib, the Guru looking at Baba Fateh Singh was overjoyed and remarked, “Son, a mighty warrior Panth shall belong to you.

ਫੌਜ ਅਕਾਲੀ ਹੋਹਿ ਨਿਹੰਗ ਸਿੰਘ ਪੰਥ ਸੋਹਿ ਚੱਕਰ ਦੁਮਾਲੇ ਲੋਹਿ ਗੱਜੈ ਰਣਧੀਰ ਹੈ ॥
The army will be called Akalis, the Nihang Singh Panth, wearing metal Chakars on their Dumallas [double-turbans], yelling with determination in battle.

ਫਰਰੇ ਸਜਾਵੈ ਖੂਬ ਸੁਖੇ ਦੇਗ ਡਲੇ ਛਕੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਗੱਜ ਗੱਜ ਪੜ੍ਹੇ ਦੁਸ਼ਟਾਂ ਕੋ ਚੀਰ ਹੈ ॥70॥
With their adorned Farlas [Standards on their turbans], they consume plentiful amounts of Sukha [marijuana] sacrament and goat meat, ferociously reciting Gurbani in battle they split enemies in half.” 70.

- Sri Gurmukh Prakash - Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji

@dallysingh101 @puzzled

Dodeh - ਡੋਡੇ  refer to the whole poppy, the pods. These are consumed once dried, seeds discarded, and then crushed - poppy husk. Sometimes referred to as bukki - ਭੁੱਕੀ. This is what puzzled's thaiya takes.

Also occassionally called ਪੋਸਤ - refers to the whole plant though I think? Also where the term posti comes from.

Khas khas - ਖਸਖਸ are the seeds inside said pod. Culinary uses only. Readily available. No nasha. What Dally puts in his dudh. What they use in non-intoxicating shardaayee/thandai (the summer drink).

Afeem or opium is what seeps out when the pods are scored. Dark brown or black when dried.

 ^ Poppy (doda) being scored. Opium (afeem) seeping out. Seeds (khas khas) are inside.