rrss

I believe there is no 'right' or 'wrong' party to this issue. In my experience, both Amritdharis and non-Amritdharis have misconceptions about what Sikhi is, not just relating to Kirpan, and these things cause conflict and a bad name to the Amritdari community. Other issues, include whether kakkars and rehat are rituals, Spiritual Guru ji vs Practical dasam granth, supporting peace or condone extremism and even our Guru vs Babas/offshoot groups. I say this as a person who is hopefully about to take Amrit at the next available opportunity and who has shifted his position from anti to pro kirpan. Having moved from being a 'Mona' through from 'Keshdari' to Gursikh and hopefully Amridhari, I have seen it from the eyes of all major groups. The problems lie in not understanding core Sikhi theology of God-realisation (e.g. God, Guru, Naam) and escaping from Maya (E.g. vices, virtues and sins) as per our Guru, Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Other things are important however they are not the absolute core of Sikhi, indeed all other aspects of Sikhi are tools, techniques, methods in order to escape from and deal with the consequences of, Maya. 1. On Amrit: At the core of Amrit is being baptised as a Sikh and receiving Guru's blessings which instils naam and break from cycle of birth and death. That is the core spiritual purpose of it. It additionally also articulates a Gursikh lifestyle to enable one to break from the clutches of and to deal with the consequences of Maya. Amritdharis, Sehardaris, Keshdaris, other groups, all need to understand that in order to realise God, the accepted method is to be initiated by a Guru, which in our case is through Punj Piare to enable Guru Ji, Guru Granth Sahib ji to give us the divine knowledge and blessing needed to realise God (there are rare documented cases of sants directly appealing through meditation for naam to be instilled in someone). 2. On Sikhism and Guru vs non Sikhs and other "Gurus": There are other methods to reach God. Guru Nanak recognised this. Sikhi is not a religion which converts people by force. The spirituality appeals on its own and with God's grace, people opt for the Sikh path. None of us ordinary people are Gurus. We have no power or capacity to determine who is or isn't a Guru. Hatred and violence towards other groups which have their own self-proclaimed Gurus are unacceptable and anti-Sikhi. If they abuse us, so be it, their souls will repent for their actions. We are not religious police who need to impose our Guru on other people. If they are happy and peaceful, what is the problem? If they want to abuse us, so be it. It only becomes a problem when others persecute to the point of mass genocide which threatens survival of Sikhism itself or of swathes of innocent people (see below). Our purpose in life is to realise God, not to make other people realise god in the way you think is best, so go get on with it and hopefully leave this physical body as Guruji intends. How this relates to Amritdharis: Too many Amritdharis are extremist in their views on other Sikhi inspired groups, other religions and even other Amritdharis who they see as inferior. Non Amritdharis see this as Amritdharis going against teachings of Guruji and being violent. 3. On keeping a strict rehat and kakkars being rituals/ritualistic objects: We need to recognise that apart from those specific guidelines and orders given by Guru Granth Sahib Ji, everything else ARE RITUALS. Amritdharis should recognise that non Gurbani rehat and kakkas are rituals, however they are rituals with a purpose. The whole point of a ritual is that practising it in itself does not lead to God realisation. Like where fasting and wearing red threat on it's own do not lead to God realisation, if doing these things makes you live a pious life and remind you of your need to control vices etc, then they have served their purpose. They are nevertheless rituals. A sant may decide not to wear kirpan, it won't make a hoot of a difference because it is a practical tool to help rein in MAYA. See below for kirpan in particular. 99.9% of Siks however are not sants, they are strongly recommended to wear kakkars and follow rehat. Too many Amritdharis are too attached to their kakkars. They pine and cry when they are separated from their body. That's fine. However how many of these Amritdharis cry when they haven't had a good meditative experience or have failed to realise God? Non Amridaris then perceive this as Amridharis being hypocritical- preaching God and naam on the one hand and yet being brought to tears not by not reaching God, but by losing the tools that are meant to help us reach God. It seems on Mahapuraks and Sants yearn for naam (Gurbani states that we should all be yearning so badly for God/naam to the point where it consumes us completely and all wordly desires and attachments are forgotten). On Kirpan and violence: All Kakkas (apart from hair, which is not an object and is a core theology issue- indeed I am in the keski kakkar camp) are to control or manage the consequences of Maya, inclding Kirpan. Guru ji tells us very clearly that violence is Maya. It tells us specifically that Gurmukhs are nirvair. The reason why conflict, differences, problems etc exist in society which need some sort of force to control is purely because of our own actions, they are a consequence of Maya. If we need to use force, it is only to have to deal with the consequences of Maya in existing society largely owning to misdeeds of civilisations in the past few thousands of years. I have written in more detail on violence here. The kirpan is as symbolic as it is a practical tool- to be righteous. We all agree that it's not an offensive weapon. We also all agree on SANT-sipahi. However many Amritdharis forget this and project themselves as warriors or tough guys. They see the kirpan and other shastars as being weapons to be used in just about any conflict situation (Violence is a last resort). Some even practice martial arts to perfection, but how many practice meditation to perfection? There is nothing special about being a Sant. Each and every Gursikh is meant to be a Sant. And if Sants are willing by the Guru to use kirpan to protect the weak and innocent or to prevent Sikhism from being wiped out, then they are compelled to do so, against their better judgement that violence is wrong, and fearing the karma of their actions, because of divine intervention by the Guru to his Sant Servants. There is plenty of evidence that in the mughal era, most Gursikhs were very very highly spiritual. How many Amritdharis reach high meditative states today? Again non-Amritdharis perceive this as more reasons for not needing to take Amrit or perceving Amridharis as hypocrites. It also alienates those who are interested in Sikhi and taking Amrit but are do not want to engage in violence. On extremism and violence: As I have explained above Guru Granth Sahib ji deplores violence and hatred, and in particular, enmity (vair). Why do people praise actions of vengeance? Vengeance by definition stems from enmity and it is NOT ALLOWED, FULL STOP. Again this alienates the more peace loving Sikhs, who vye for peaceful solutions to conflict. It also encourages spin off groups like Namdharis, who wear symbolic kirpans in their dastaar (and then Sikhs begin to HATE such people, which is NOT ALLOWED). A great many Amritdharis also condone extremist ideologies. So as someone else has said before, non-Amritdharis don't have the full picture, they are in the dark. However most Amritdharis are not projecting the right image of Sikhi to other groups, so what can they expect? One word summises this debate: Maya. Please if you take one thing from this post, let it be this. Disengage from Maya and refer to Guruji for advice. Bhul chuk maaf karna. PS. I won't be monitoring this thread or replying. If I have made mistakes, please forgive me, however people do unnessarily pick arguments on this forum. I have made my point and am going underground.

wgjkkwgjkf Let your beard flow with pride! Besides, gelling and twisting damages the hair. Advice: Use mild moisturing soap to cleanse the skin beneath the beard (not beard itself though); it's important to keep the skin clean and moisturised to prevent cysts and dry skin. Shampoo when required, use a good conditioner. When air drying, dab a few drops of oil (I prefer almond) onto your finger tips and work through your hair slowly from root to tip. Don't use too much oil. A few drops is plenty. If your hair is curly you may still be able to brush it (after washing and oiling), first work your fingers through it (to undo tangles). Lightly brush. If very curly, then just let it be. Avoid the temptation of playing with your beard! Your hair will change in thickness as you get older and it may take some time to have complete coverage, so don't fret if you have patches in your mane.

Curioustoknow ji, It appears to me that you've spent very little time reading about 'Eastern' mythology and religious thought, particularly, who is a Guru is and what he is representative of, the ages and the present age of kalyug etc, otherwise you would not be asking these questions. Suggestion: Please have a look at Bhai Gurdas' Varaan. It is 40 chapters, translated into English, and has a topic index available: http://www.searchgur...aran/vaar_index Click on each Vaar/Chapter and you'll see topic index, but I would recommend you read it from beginning to end as the relevant passages are throughout the text so please take your time. References to Muhammed and Christ etc are made if this pleases you. Since you spent many years researching other religions, I'm sure you'll have the patience to read through this :-) In short, the Guru is representative of all other varna and semitic religions: "Therefore all the four varnas and all four semitic religions have sought the shelter of the lotus feet of the Guru." and the Guru came because other religions became lost in Ego and rituals in the age of Kalyug. Another suggestion that I have is for you to read about Sikhi with an open mind. Concepts require a much more deeper understanding than perhaps other religions. Things such as naam, dasam duar etc, these are deep things. Also please bear in mind that no matter how much religious textual study you do, the whole point of the Guru is that he helps us realise the true meanings and unlock the deeper spiritual understanding at a higher level of understanding so feel free to devote yourself to the Guru and see the magic unfold. So read Guru Granth Sahib ji and from your heart of hearts ask Guruji for guidance and understanding. Feel free to visit Guru's house (Gurdwara) and do an Ardas (invocation) prayer.

I seek guidance on this subject as I feel my time to take Amrit is coming soon. I want it to be a spiritual rebirth, I don't want this to be just a ritual.. I've been reading Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh ji's autobiography who talks about his Amrit journey. I have quoted the relevant pages below (English translation, Kindle edition). Note the two paragraphs in bold- the first would appear to answer veerji's original question about 'kamayi'. If we accept Bhai Sahib's reasoning, we don't need to worry about picking and choosing panj pyare, however I'm concerned about the issue of imparting naam. Bhai Sahib did not have a very positive experience in this respect. He did not feel the spiritual energy when the divine name was passed on to him (He later spent years meditating and yearning for naam and finally got blessed, with none other than "waheguru", which is another story). Veerji (OP), did you experience anything special or lack thereof during the Amrit ceremony, like Bhai Sahib has described below? ----------------------- Extract from Autobiography of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, 2012 Kindle Edition A Sublime Spiritual Experience It was the annual function of Gujjarwal Singh Sabha. A large sangat (congregation) had gathered together. Musicians from Amritsar were singing Asa di //. Suddenly I passed into a deep Samadhi and blissful state. For the first time in my life the Sadh Sangat now appeared to be a heaven on earth. All round, I felt a rain of nectar-laved joy which was sweet and thrilling. The whole sky was filled with waves of ambrosia. I felt that I merged and bathed in a sea of nectar. Inside and outside my body I felt heavenly bliss. This experience gave me an unusual spiritual joy in which my mind and soul were diving as if in a sea of joy. For a moment I felt that I was not sitting in this world. There were the Panj Pyaras (the Five beloved Knights) who baptized. One of the Panj Pyaras came towards me from behind. It appeared he was descending from the heavenly realm of Truth only to take me along with him. As I sat deeply absorbed in Samadhi, kirtan was going on in front of me, while the same Beloved One out of Panj Pyaras was coming towards me in a love-lorn mood from behind. The music of the highest spiritual realm was ringing all around and he moved in tune with this music. It appeared that I had two eyes even at my back, because without turning back, I could see that was happening behind me. All these things appeared to be happening in the astral sphere. The heavenly messenger (one out of the Panj Pyaras) was now seen coming close to me. He silently came and stood behind me and touched me with his magnetic astral finger. With a strange power he held me by my hand and took me in the direction from which he came. He did not utter a word, nor could I speak. Although I did not like to leave the kirtan which was going on there, yet I followed him irresistibly in great joy and expectation. I thought he will take me to the heavenly realms from where he came. In deep contemplative silence, I followed the beloved figure who appeared to be an embodiment of love. I did not even feel the movement of my feet. In an instant I was taken to a strange spiritual realm where there was untold peace and bliss. The holy Guru Granth was placed there and over it was a canopy. Someone was waving the chowri reverently. The Panj Pyaras (the five Beloved ones) of the Guru stood there with humility and reverence before Guru Granth Sahib and this celestial figure, who took me there, bowed before the Guru Granth Sahib with such deep reverence as I had never witnessed before. I also bowed with the same reverence and humility. I was so deeply absorbed in the humble salutation that the celestial figure bestowed benediction on me and asked me to rise up. What I now saw was, that a Sikh was waving the chowri and five Sikhs stood there ready to perform the baptism ceremony. I was not able to speak but it appeared I was silently trying to tell them these words. “Sir, if you find that I am fit for baptism, may I please be baptized now. I am yearning for baptism. There cannot be a better occasion than this. I would feel greatly blessed.” Then, one of them said “If you wish to be baptized bring your wife also with you.” When these words came to my ears I suddenly came out of the spiritual mood of ecstasy. The whole celestial atmosphere disappeared as if a screen had suddenly dropped over it. I found myself again in the Singh Sabha Gurudwara Gujjarwal. Five Sikhs were standing in the presence of Guru Granth Sahib and amongst them was the same mysterious figure who had taken me to a higher spiritual realm. Now when I looked at him closely I found him to be a friend and brother disciple. I now realized that I had seen all the Panj Pyaras in their astral body but now I could see them in their physical body also. I said to them, it was better if they could baptize me all alone. They smiled and uttered this couplet: “By Thy grace O Merciful Lord The whole family has boarded the ship And been baptized” Adi Guru Granth: Kabir: Gaudi p. 337 Thus they instructed me to bring my wife and have her baptized along with me and not to leave her behind, on this spiritual path. They said many other things which I do not remember. I humbly promised and asked them if I could again get such a wonderful opportunity for being baptized. They said in words full of blessing “You will get a far better opportunity”. This blessing encouraged me and I started waiting patiently for the day. For many years I had been preparing as a novice for baptism with a deep devotion and longing. Now I felt that I was a suitable candidate for baptism. In the beginning I was of the opinion that the Panj Pyaras should be of my choice but this was an error and a mistake. Such a doubt had already been dispelled. The Sadh Sangat or the Khalsa Panth alone had the right to select the Panj Pyaras and not those who seek baptism. Those who seek baptism are only novices. It is not possible for them to make a judgement or to test the Panj Pyaras. If at all they make a judgement or apply some test it would be of a low order. But the spiritual experience which I had on this day convinced me that if a seeker after baptism is sincere and pure he will get the Panj Pyaras of the spiritual order he deserves. It so happens that the seeker’s own virtues and qualities bear proper fruit. Nothing is achieved by shrewdness and ingenuity. So I left everything in the hands of the Almighty God and was waiting for the great day according to His sweet Will. Receiving Baptism At last the day of my baptism came nearer. For me it was to be a new spiritual birth and a new life. I was to die to this world and was to be born again in the spirit of the Guru. Unexpectedly, the day was made known to me, for which I had been waiting impatiently like a honey-bee thirsting for the beauty of the flower. I expected that day to be known at any time suddenly, when I would get the heavenly nectar as a gift of God. At last, one day, I felt the divine call when I came to know that at Bakapur in Tehsil Phillaur, District Jullundur, a unique religious gathering was being organised and an impressive baptism ceremony was to be held. (This was specially organized to baptize a Muslim divine, Maulvi Karim Bakhsh along with his family, into the Khalsa faith. After the baptism he came to be known as Sant Lakhbir Singh). Whenever I came to-know of any religious gathering I eagerly went there to enjoy the spiritual bliss of the holy congregation. Now when I came to know that there would be an amrit parchar (baptism ceremony) I at once went there. Many other friends from our village joined me. On the way other jathas joined us. When we got down at Phillaur station we started kirtan and went on foot to Bakapur singing divine songs all along the way distance of three miles. It was a large gathering of the Sikh community in which all prominent leaders, saints and devotees had gathered together. It was in every way a grand Khalsa Diwan (community gathering) which I had witnessed for the first time in my life. It is not necessary to write much more about this gathering. I was full of hope and joy and was eagerly waiting for the baptism ceremony. When there was a call for those who wished to be baptized some power moved me and I stood up with folded hands and begged the holy congregation to bless me with the ambrosial baptism (Amrita) if they found me suitable and deserving. I would feel blessed, if along with others, I was also baptized. By the grace of God my request was accepted. Some more persons from our village got ready for the Amrita. Then a good many more came forward. Out of them only those who deserved and were prepared in every way for the Amrita (baptism) were selected. They were asked to take a bath and wash their hair. Then they were brought before the holy Guru Granth Sahib for the baptism ceremony. Before the ceremony started, a man came from outside and started telling us about the divine Name. Because of this unceremonious method of imparting the divine Name, its spiritual significance failed to be revealed to us. We did not experience the magnetism of the divine Name. Thus the divine Name failed to spiritually inspire me. Its contemplation also was difficult without the proper inspiration from the Panj Pyaras. But there was no doubt, I experienced a distinct change and spiritual rebirth in my inner being and truly felt a new life, a new youth and a new spiritual vision of life. The Panj Pyaras then instructed us with the essential code of conduct, which they commanded us to practise even at the cost of life. To me these ethical commands and the principles of Sikh idealism appeared to be personal commands of Guru Gobind Singh, which have been imparted from heart to heart and soul to soul as perennial inspiration by the Khalsa for centuries. To live and practise these ethical commands, to the letter, became the sole aim of my religious and spiritual life. To me, to strictly adopt these principles of the Khalsa code of conduct was the only path of liberation. After acquiring this spiritual birth in the Holy Order of the Khalsa, I vowed to maintain the purity and sublimity of this miraculous spiritual birth. When I came home after baptism, everybody felt that there was a distinct change in me, and everyone was surprised at the change. The rest of my family had not yet entered the spiritual life of the Khalsa Holy Order. I made up my mind not to take any food from the hands of those who had not been baptized. My wife had gone to her paternal home. So she failed to join me in baptism. Arrangements for her baptism had to be made only when she came. I could not ask my father and mother to go in for baptism. So I started cooking my own food. All my life I had never cooked any food. When everyone saw me taking such keen interest and having such orthodox attitude towards spiritual life my parents and other members of the family felt naturally inclined to be baptised partly through personal attachment and partly through the new inspiration. So within a month all the members of the family including my wife who had come back from her parent’s home were baptised. Earlier our marriage ceremony had been performed according to Vedic rites. Now we were remarried according to Sikh rites after her baptism.

Some say prounounce terminal sihari and unkar where this makes sense from context and language being used, others say completely ignore, what do you do?

Veerji, I don't believe addak is used in Gurbani, where have you seen it being used? I suppose it would infer stresss on ਖ, which doesn't sound right to me. But then, I'm not a native speaker so more experienced people may be able to assist. I like this series of videos on , very interesting.

Veerji, I'm surprised you can't find it in Southall! I'm sure they can order it from India if they don't have it in stock... WGJKWGJKF

Try sleeping earlier and avoid bedside distractions (mobile phone/games/books etc). If you don't feel sleepy force yourself to wake up very early one day and you will feel tired and sleepy during the day. Don't sleep during the day, wait till around 9 or 10 then sleep. This will kick start the cycle. Try it.

Kin ji, glad to know, you will benefit. Don't worry, it may be difficult to share at first and not know where to start, but once you start form any angle, you will gain confidence in your counsellor. Wish you the best :-)

WGJKWGJKF I have been at a Gurbani study group recently, and we were talking about how the internet is a very good tool for beginners. Somebody asked a questoin about printing at home, a PDF file containing either Gurmukhi only or with transliteration and translations, compiled by websites online, which none of us could answer. What are the rules, is printing allowed? Is this a no-no because of disrespect to Guruji? If allowed, does it have to be printed and bound properly or is printing on a home printer on ordinary paper with ring binding acceptable (separated into volumes)? Second part of the question relates to hand writing Gurbani, page by page until complete (will take years). What are the rules to follow? Where can one get the appropriate parchment paper outside of India? Is it allowed to make notes in the margin or does show disrespect to Guruji? How about correcting mistakes? Is there a reliable digital source which can be used for this? Thank you. WGJKWGJKF

Veerji, where are you based? May be able to suggest some shops in your local area. Perhaps email the website above and ask if they could stock your colour? WGJKWGJKF

WGJKWGJKF In case you're looking for another product, I would strongly recommend the 100% vegan protein shake from Sun Warrior. It's made from plant sources only (brown rice mostly). I have tried it myself, digests better than whey protein and has good results. Google it. WGJKWGJKF

Veerji, Google is your friend: shiny turban

Innocent penji, if I understand correctly, you are apprehensive about how physical contact will be initiated. For a Gursikh who has not given this subject any thought before marriage, obviously it is new and apprehensive and potentially worrying. I am sure most of the apprehension is sourced from not having talked about it with your husband. After you get married, please talk to your husband about it and discuss your apprehension. I am sure this will help you both.

Could someone please direct me towards a good informational resource (website/book/video) on raag kirtan and raag in general? As in the fundamentals, techniques and styles, improvisation, instruments etc. Thank you

Why are people abusive towards each other on this forum? Not very Sikhi-like behaviour :wow: This is a complex subject not easily resolved. I am by no means an expert, but nevertheless here's my opinion. I believe there are several issues involved: 1. Language is certainly an issue but it's more complex than just having translations of Gurbani and English services. We should learn from long-lasting small-scale religions such as Judaism and Buddhism. Jewish families living across the Western world strive to teach their children a thing or two about their religion. A good number of youth spend a few years in religious school in Israel or elsewhere where they learn the language and live a pure life. Meanwhile Rabbis typically know English and whilst that helps the youth, once someone is spiritually inclined, they learn Hebrew. Gurbani is of course difficult because it is made up of many languages and archaic or colloquial expressions, so learning Punjabi will not give someone access to the full Granth. This is especially a challenge for non-Punjabi Sikh converts, for whom an initial understanding can be most easily gained through translations. It is however universally accepted that translations are not as good as the real thing and most converts strive to do Gurbani vichar and struggle and learn. Yes it would be helpful for such people (I'm one of these people) for there to be English services at Gurdwaras (perhaps alternative sessions?), but I have seen many Gurdwaras in the UK with english translations, Gurmukhi and transliterations on slideshow so that's quite a good thing. This is however not related to the OP's question of Sikh youth. I don't believe that using English will solve all 'problems'. Read on below. 2. The problem of the Youth is less not understanding Gurbani as it is being exposed to popular culture, succumbing to peer-pressure, and not being inspired enough by their parents and elders to take an interest, both in spirituality as well as the importance of leading a modest and principled life. It's common to find youth from Western/not very religious Jewish families become fully orthodox. What is noteworthy is that even though they may not be religious, kids are brought up in an environment where things must be Kosher (ranging from food to modesty). At this juncture, we may compare ourselves to Islam. A higher proportion of Muslims in the West either grow more religious or principled as they age or have always lived like that. Of the young muslim women I know, a good number wear head scarves and vehemently believe in protecting their modesty. I don't personally know a young Sikh female keski wearer, very few Amritdharis, a handful of 'Gursikhs' and the overwheming majority don't give a monkeys about morals and decency. I don't know a single young Sikh male who keeps a flowing beard- it's either trimmed or tied yet every single one of the bearded muslims I know are very proud of their long beards. The way in which kids are brought up is very important. A friend of mine was brought up in the strictest of environments by Amritdhari parents. She however cut her hair as a teenager and is now indistinguishable from anyone else. I believe the key difference is that she was not inspired by her parents/elders in her youth. Little can be done about preventing exposure to popular culture and peer pressure but inspiring youth is important and this in turn can only happen if parents and older family members themselves are good role models. 3. The Amritdhari thresshold is quite high, people are afraid of the level of commitment required. Amritdharis are also perceived to be elitist and uncool. Christian youth (who have 'embraced Jesus') celebrate high principles by CREATING THEIR OWN POPULAR CULTURE, complete with rock songs against pre-marital sex etc. Look at Punjabi bhangra songs, lyrics and videos are absolutely shocking. 4.Youth are brought up in family environments which celebrate beauty/money/career achievement over the vices and virtues in Gurbani. Compare this to Islam where many men keep full beards. They are still easily able to find matrimonial matches, unlike our (fully) bearded youth who are rejected by women. 5. Lack of inspiring religious leaders and scholars. There are a few that others have quoted as doing a good job but they are few and far between. This is not helped by too much infighting and politics in Akal Takht. They are too busy controlling deras and playing poitics than addressing the burning issue of the future of Sikhi going to ruin. 6. Whilst not a problem in itself, Sikhi is complex to fully appreciate and differs from the Abrahamic view of God/Heaven/Hell etc. People from other religions can easily relate to their religion and readily explain core principles. Ask 10 Sikhs about core principles and you'll get 6-7 different answers. 7. In most religions, spirituality and morals/principles are linked, but in Sikhism, lack of spirituality amongst the youth automatically translates to lack of morals/principles. Once again families are to blame for not being able to imbibe the necessary values in their kids upbringing. You can't teach spirituality, it comes with Waheguruji's kirpa, but you can teach kids values. Edit: And some more fundamental issues: 1. Sikh immigrants to the West like to integrate rather than live in isolation. There is great pressure on immigrants to accept the Western way of life, else be seen as backwards/fresh off the boat/not patriotic/bundled in with the muslims (many of whom in spite of great discrimination wear their mullah beards and headscarves and see themselves as muslim first and nationality second). This has obvious consequences on future generations. 2. Community divisions: Casteism and discrimination. I know plenty of youth from Sikh backgrounds who are completely non-religious but strongly believe in caste and also discriminate against darker skinned/poor people. Youth like to belong to something and selfish human attitude to be chauvinistic is inherant in us, so caste and discrimination brings youth together more than Sikhi does. This relates to negative (older) role models in the community. 3. Most religions unite against something negative rather than for something positive. For the muslims, it's the infidels/western 'imperialism'/sunni vs shiia etc, for the Jews it's the global conspiracy against them and Zionism, for Christians, it's gays and abortionists. Sikhs (and Hindus) have big chips on their shoulders from centuries of Muslim rule and the tough times faced by the Gurus. As a result, Sikhs rally and unite in paki/muslim bashing and exalt in reminiscing in the glory of bloody battles from the middle-ages. Battles and bloodshed should serve as a reminder to be peace loving human beings. It is our responsibility to get over it, forgive and forget and bring the focus back towards positive spiritualism, like the Buddhists do (although nowadays even some Tibetan Buddhist youth unite against Chinese rule). Bhul chuk maaf karna.

Very sad, donated what I can. If you offered a gift aid option for UK taxpayers, you can get much more value from your donations, I know you're a new charity (registered June), but please do look into it. Please see BT's giving page- it's more safe and secure than bank transfers, zero commission and you can claim gift aid on UK donations.

Please please do seek some professional advice regarding this. There are some techniques which may help you through this difficult situation, best prescribed by someone who has had a chance to speak to you directly. Do you have a counsellor that you could speak to at your school or elsewhere?

:biggrin2:

So the general consensus is that certain types of asking (for things/events to happen) are Manmat (such as to complete life's goal- although I would argue that one needs to escape the illusion of maya to reach life's goal, maya prevents God realisation and does not enable it- a man who dies of starvation may not have food but may realise union with God- if he begged for food as this will enable him to live longer and healthier and have time to study Gurbani- this is strictly maya). Surely if everything is with His kirpa we need not actively ask for it, there should be full faith that what you need and deserve will be delivered. God permeates the inner beings of the Gurmukhs. God knows the suffering of her mind. But there is still so much desire within them-they still yearn for clothes and food. In His own way, He provides us with our food; in His own way, He plays with us He blesses us with all comforts, enjoyments and delicacies, and he permeates our minds. Our Father is the Lord of the World, the Merciful Lord. Just as the mother protects her children, God nurtures and cares for us. So God knows all, he knows the suffering. He will deliver if one is fully devoted. Guruji says He nurtures and cares for us, why do we ever need to ask for anything? Contentment is important. I agree.

Some also claim that that's schizophrenia :biggrin2:

Some valid points, I agree that 'God' is closer than close and it boils down to recognising that. My point about conversation, was that it's not in the sense of a conversation with words in any language, it would appear to be one of unspoken emotions and feelings that convey a sense of purpose, meaning, strength etc in response to humans talking in words or conversing in terms of naam ('My conversation is with the Lord's Name'). I know plenty of Christians who claim to have, quite literally, a conversation in English with 'God', they chat, they laugh, they are best buddies. I am yet to hear of a Sikh who has claimed to have experienced this. You only hear of feelings and emotions and ultimately, the truth (God's true nature) being conveyed in some mystical manner, during enlightenment. Guru Nanak ji has not written, 'and a voice boomed from the clouds in response to my prayer and we talked about the meaning of life'. Now whether we can communicate with God (at a deep level) is a more apt expression, surely why not, SGGSji is all about communicating with Him so to speak. I put my name down as one who has experienced such personal communication, a humbling and highly emotional experience indeed.

Thanks for the suggestion HKaur ji. How reliable is the katha, what is the literary basis of it? Has he any studied reference material of Guruji's personal diaries or has he studied himself and reached a conclusion? Admittedly there will always be enlightened individuals including (self-proclaimed) 'Sat' Gurus who make use of Gurbani, but they may not express their understanding quite like Nanak ji did or intended. I shudder at the idea that future generations may have to sit in Deras for satsangs because of lack of a rigid scholarly body in Sikhi.....

Thanks, makes sense. What about washing, any tips?

Thanks for posting this; a very useful resource indeed. Is there any translated Gurbani Teeka/context commentary available online (Sahib Singh/Fareedkot)?