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Sat Sri Akal: I agree...Kesh or Keski...have BOTH!!! :umm: ) :e: :nihungsmile:

Sat Sri Akal: Buddha does not comment on the Almighty. For Buddha, the highest state of being was Nirvana, or the ultimate bliss. Whether this can be interpreted as Almighty or not is up for interpretation, but the concept of the Almighty is not directly stated as in other religious texts.

Sat Sri Akal: I am a fat man :g :g :g Guru Sahiban encouraged Sikhs to be in physical shape. In one of Baba Maan Singh's kathas, he mentions that Guru Hargobind Sahib was built so strong, that he was barely able to fit down the village streets Guru Gobind Singh Sahib himself was tall and well built, and encouraged his Sikhs to engage in sparring in Holla Mahallas.

Sat Sri Akal: Learner Singh Ji, then please explain where Gangu Brahmin came from? Do you have an explanation?

Sat Sri Akal: To be a student, you must "enroll" with a teacher. So a Sikh must enroll with taking amrit from the Panj Pyare, the physical embodiment of the Guru Sahib. Guru Granth Sahib also states that a Guru is needed to attain salvation: houmai karathaa jag muaa gur bin ghor a(n)dhhaar || Engrossed in egotism, the world perishes. Without the Guru, there is utter darkness. Guru Amar Daas Ji Siree Raag 34 kott jathanaa kar rehae gur bin thariou n koe ||2|| Trying millions of things, people have grown weary, but without the Guru, none have been saved. ||2|| Guru Arjan Dev Ji Siree Raag 51 bhaaee rae gur bin giaan n hoe || O Siblings of Destiny, without the Guru, there is no spiritual wisdom. Guru Nanak Dev Ji Siree Raag 59 (Further quotes can be found by searching in Gurmukhi "Gur Bin" into http://www.sikhitothemax.com). That is the need of amrit.

Sat Sri Akal: Britain has had much more time than the U.S. and Canada with exposure to Sikhs. Sikhs are becoming active in Canada and U.S., even if in minor ways. Give them a little more time and expect British Columbia and California to be pioneers.

Sat Sri Akal: If I was a Sikh, I would gladly greet the sangat with Guru Sahib's Fateh. As I have not taken amrit, I am not deserving, worthy or allowed to say Guru Sahib's Fateh or be called a Sikh. :umm: (But that will change!). The word Panch is equivalent of the word Panj, or five. The root word Panch is found in the word Panchayat, which is still the 5 village elders who make decisions for the village. I have been told that Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh made this point in one of his books (perhaps someone can confirm?). Of course, some words in Guru Granth Sahib can have more than one meaning...

Sat Sri Akal: Uh...what about all of the above? B)

Sat Sri Akal: Quotations about Amrit are all over the Guru Granth Sahib. Most notable is that Amrit is described as a liquid that is drunk by the Gurmukh. I doibt it is a consequence that Amrit of the Panj Pyare is a liquid. What about Nitnem? Guru Granth Sahib states over and over to remember the Lord with every breath every day (many with the word Nit, which means daily). Same as Sehaj Paath...to remember the Lord as much as possible. What about Kirpan? Can't say...not knowlegeable enough. Even the Almighty is stated to be a sword-wielder (look up the word Kharag in Sikhitothemax search engine). For a Sikh, the Panj Pyare are the Guru-in-body...they represent the ideal of the Gurbani instilled into a human form. Through them, salvation is achieved. Is Sikhism the only path to salvation? Don't know...but I do know that Bhai Gurdas Sahib did write "Kal Taran Guru Nanak Aya" - Guru Nanak Sahib has come to guide across the Kalyuga. Being Bhai Gurdas Sahib was chosen to write the Adi Granth, I tend to believe him. And who has the authority to guide others across Kalyuga? They who were given the Guru Sahib's authority...the Panj Pyare, whose command even the Tenth Nanak obeyed. And how does one become the Guru's disciple/Sikh? By taking amrit from those who were vested with the authority to administer it. (The point about the Udasis recognizing Charanamrit is interesting...who amongst them was given the Guru's Authority to administer Charanamrit? Who among has such a blessed foot that can match Guru Nanak Sahib's Charan? No Sangat Ji, only the Panj Pyare were given that divine right). Panj Pyare are the way to salv ation for a Sikh...and they administer Khande-Di-Pahul. Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh even analyzed the Japji Sahib lines starting with Panch (Panch Parvan, Panch Pardhan...) and concluded that these Panch (Panch meaning 5 members of an wise persons) were the Panj Pyare for Sikhs. Take from it what you will...you believe that another person can get you to SachKhand...great, follow him/her.

Sat Sri Akal: Dhan Shukar Akal Purakh Da, Jinae Khalsa Panth Nu Rabbi Noor Da Hira Baksh Dita.

Sat Sri Akal: Rattan Singh BHANGU? Perhaps you would care to translate that last name? I wonder what his views would be? And while we are on the topic...what is so great about Marijuana? What use would a Nihung have for it? Marijuana dulls the senses and slows down reaction time. A Nihung engaged in battle...what is he/she to do...stare at the pretty colors or fight the opponent? Had every Nihung been toking the dooby, Sikhs would never have been able to win a single battle (unless the opponent was dropping some acid...now that would be a real match to see!). There is positively NO rationale for Marijuana having any place in Sikhism. No reason exists for it, no explanation is given for it.

Sat Sri Akal: Well, well well...if the RSS member isn't calling the Congress member patit. Look who's making the accusation...Badal's son...last I heard, he wasn't the image of a Sikh either. What we need is a little :g in that household. P.S. Lal "Singh" deserves a Punjab Police style beating as well for his comments.

Sat Sri Akal: Time to buy a tanga and an ox!!!

Sat Sri Akal: Sarbloh Bibek - a tradition prominent in the AKJ (and even Nihungs I think) in which all food that is cooked and served is done so in pure iron dishes. Both consider this to be a tradition started by Guru Gobind Singh.

Sat Sri Akal: At least they are tying them!!! :umm: ) :nihungsmile:

Sat Sri Akal: Before we engage in some discussion, it would be important to point out some things. First, kirtan done by many of the AKJ Kirtanias is in raag. Raag is NOT singing "Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Da Ni Sa" and "aaahahaahaa" like your tail is on fire. If anything, singing this should be considered manmat, as it detracts the focus from Akal Purakh's words and turns into the Kirtania's personal show to display his/her skills (not to mention really annoy many of the sangat, who find it extremely irritating that such phrases are disturbing the blissful flow of Gurbani Kirtan). Raag is a musical scale within which to perform kirtan. Complicating and frustrating it with "Sa Re..." etc. is not necessary. Second, before stating that "AKJ doesnot do kirtan in raag", it would be fitting for a person who knows all the raags to compare the AKJ kirtan with their respective raags listed in the Guru Granth Sahib, see if the kirtan is done according to that raag, and then make that comment. Unless someone here is an expert in raag-vidiya, I would highly recommend not making judgements on assumptions. Thirdly, this topic has been presented on AKJ boards and they also agree. Doing Kirtan in raag is how it should be done...otherwise, the Gurus had no reason for listing the raags in which to sing kirtan in in the Guru Granth Sahib. And many of the "seasoned" Kirtanias do a lot of their Kirtan in raags (take Bhai Tejinderpal Singh for instance). Keep these things in mind before engaging in this discussion. And forgive this poor moorakh if his words seem harsh.

Sat Sri Akal: Then the solution is clear. The Sikh community as a WHOLE must stand up and demand justice from the British Government, not resting or easing pressure on them until the guilty are found and swiftly punished. Otherwise, the worst scenario is if the case is left alone...that only encourages more crimes.

Sat Sri Akal: Another great poem...keep them coming.

Sat Sri Akal: Great poem...if only sleep could be that fulfilling...one would never wake up!

Sat Sri Akal: I do not know how seriously the British government takes these cases (I live in the U.S.). Have other similar cases (I think there were a few in Britain before) been resolved with the guilty being punished? If not, beating the eyes out of these people might be the only resort.

Sat Sri Akal: Also, please read these extracts from Sant Sahib's speeches. They disprove many of the claims that the other books make: http://panthkhalsa.tripod.com/jarnail_spee...hes_written.htm (the text does not show up unless you press Ctrl and A buttons - don't know why - but definitely worth the read). See what the man had to say and judge for yourself.

Sat Sri Akal: I am usually against violence...but I hope that these fools are beaten down Pind-style. To cut off a Sikh's "Jaan to Pyari" kesh deserves nothing less!

Sat Sri Akal: There (supposedly...I have not read it myself) a hukamname from Guru Gobind Singh instructing his Sikhs to wear Sarbloh karas. The only rationale that I have heard for use of Sarbloh dishes is provided by Baba Nihal Singh...cooking in Sarbloh can actually supplement the diet with Iron and help the body overcome iron deficiencies. Now...let the MASSIVE debate commence... :D @

Sat Sri Akal: The Kara has a LOT of rationalizations behind it (it is for this...it is for that...). There is no one definitive answer to what the Kara is for. If someone out there knows what the word Kara translates to, please...please tell us. P.S. I was also told that ancient Yogis wore Karas...can anyone confirm?

Sat Sri Akal: Ok...did these books provide any proof? Try reading "Fighting for Faith and Nation" by Cynthia Keppley Mehmood. It is a relatively unbiased account of the Sikh struggle.