HSD2

The state of these Gurdwaras has nothing to do with a loss of spirituality or a lack of care for our Gurus. It is down to British treachery, Partition, emigration and a lack of power to do anything in West Punjab anymore. There are hungry people the world over, especially in Pakistan. If you want to do something about the starving in Africa, go for it. But that doesnt mean other things cant be done. Too many cooks spoil the soup, as the saying goes. If you havent already, join the facebook group. If you have any information on Gurdwaras in Pakistan or photos please post them. If you know anyone who has visitted their ancestral Gurdwara in West Punjab ask them what state it was in and add the information to the group. Finally, tell your friends and other in the Gurdwara. If they dont care, that's fine, but many have no idea about these places and awareness is needed.

lol minority mentality

Get a time machine and go tell that to Shaheed Baba Deep Singh Ji. There are 24 million Sikhs in this world. If some of us want to do something, that doesnt stop you from doing something else.

Most of the larger well run stud farms were abandoned in West Punjab. Those who worked on them moved abroad after 1947. There are some decent horses around but whether the owners would sell them are another matter. Asking Nihangs would be your best bet.

Look at the English people around you who have been drinking tap water for years and then make up your mind.

Dude, I suggest you read the biography on Hari Singh Nalwa by Vanit Nalwa. Back then the Afghans werent some 'weirdos with a beardo' running around the mountains molesting little boys like the Taliban are now. They were a sovereign power and arguably a super power in Central Asia. Read books like Panth Prakash and the biography to see how the Sikhs wore down their war machine before driving them up the Khyber and taking Peshawar. The forerunners of the Taliban, led by Syed Ahmad, were wiped out in a single campaign, not the long drawn out campaigns that the Yanks and Commies tried. If the British hadnt overrun Punjab there is a high chance more of Afghanistan would have been taken or that Afghanistan would have become a tributary to Punjab. After Hari Singh Nalwa's death there was talk that Maharajah Ranjit Singh and Prince Nau Nihal Singh would take two divisions and take Jalalabad and Kabul and raze them in revenge for Hari Singh Nalwa's death. The foreign officers and dogra traitors talked them out of it. Taking and holding of Peshawar was no easy task. The British used tens of thousands of troops, artillery, gatling/machine guns and aircraft to hold onto it, even though the Afghans were using the same equipment they had when they fought the Punjabi Empire. Can you imagine America losing New York to the Russians in a war and having to accept they would never get it back? Or England losing Birmingham to Scotland and having to deal with it? That's what the Sikhs did to the Afghans.

Sounds like someone knows more than he's letting on.... If you know who did it tell us.

Because we Sikhs havent got round to that phase in a religion were we lose our core values and make up for it with genocide and mass rape against outsiders. The 'aboriginals' of North America would probably been happy if they never had any outsider bring their 'knowledge' to them. Reincarnation negates your points about the limit of the reach of Sikhi.

The Carolinas didnt even exist in the early 16th century. What are you people on.

Because they consider themselves Sikhs and not Christian/Muslim/Hindu like the other people trying to get married. It's funny that they are considered Sikh when a census or a problem comes around though.

A mixed marriage should take place in a mixed temple. If you're marrying a christian, get married in a GurudwaraChurch. Oh they dont exist? Well boohoo, go to the registry office instead. Typical BBC, making Sikhs look like extremists but not even daring to say a word about muslims or other religions.

The social situation in parts of the UK is a 'teensy weensy' bit different to what you're on about in the US mate.

Ah hah, I see it now. In fact there are a fair few similarities between early Rome and early Sikh 'republics'. Unlike modern Western democracies, the idea of discussing ideas and having debates was as important as the votes. The Romans trained their children in oratory skills and the forum was a centre piece of Roman life in many urban areas, just like Sikhs discussed things before coming to a conclusion/agreement. Unforunately modern democracies arent too similar to either. The democracies of today are based on European systems and cultures, which themselves are traced back to the vary barbarian hordes who destroyed the Roman Empire and provinces. If anything it took them centuries to ape the few ideas they were able to decipher from classical Roman and Greek society, at times just copying with no idea of how it all fitted together. For example, one way the Romans strengthened their society was to have a patronage system which didnt leave people out or create 'have nots'. Western societies took centuries to develop something similar (the welfare state) and even this has proved untenable. Sikhs shouldnt read to much into what the west does, most of their success is based on ample stolen resources and military might. Without that their political institutions are as bad as anyone elses. Sikhs, especially those in Punjab, have to figure out their own way.

Five wives available for all, while stocks last.

I'm not comfortable with the idea of random security firms or even ones owned by apneh roaming Gurudwaras like stormtroopers and doing the stuff that some of these companies have a reputation for. The Jews have built well protected Synagogues for themselves in the UK, we should see how they do it. If we can defend our Gurudwaras during riots than we should also be able to do something about this. Unemployed youth, volunteers, local workers on lunch breaks, other Sikhs with days off should be roped in to help. It's just an idea, I dont want to start arguments. A lot of Sikhs have military, security, bouncer, guard etc experience in the UK and ultimately it is about sewa, rather than paying people to do what we should do. The Gurudwara could cover expenses for people who volunteer and are worried about travel costs etc. Any other ideas?

Considering what a mess they have made of Pakistan, it's no wonder they are claiming Maharaja Ranjit Singh for themselves. In reality they cant divide and break up Punjab and then try to emulate Maharajah Ranjit Singh and try to pretend his achievements were anything other than due the mix of the best qualities of being Punjabi and Sikh. Ironically, it is the very fact that they consider themselves a muslim state that will be their undoing. When the West leaves, the Taliban will move on and Pakistan will reap what it's sown. Maharaja Ranjit Singh and the Punjabi Army had no qualms about sorting them out. The Pakistani populace and military on the other hand arent. So let's see what happens.

The pictures on that site dont come up properly (large enough) for me. Can someone post bigger pictures? Also can someone post an explanation? From what I get, he's seen Sikh described as Sic in some western work, then seen Sic on a wall and put two and two together. But the tree of life image/eden image or whatever means something like 'God arises as seen/so forth' rather than 'holy sikh guests'. You'll have to forgive me as my latin is patchy but surely someone could clear this up?

Shocking colours. A darker blue would be easier on the eyes.

Where is this from? I thought Res Publica was a British thinktank, odd they know so much about Misl history. I dont really see how you can compare modern democracies of well unified countries to the Misls though. Maharaja Ranjit Singh's rise to power wasnt just about seeing how Punjab was divided and how bad people were, there was an element of Nationalism to it. Just as Germany, Japan, Italy and China had been divided along clan/shire/state/domains lines, it took a forceful entity and movement to unite them into one nation state. This brought the security, power and unity that a confederacy could never bring. The peace and removal of infighting to the external borders was a desirable goal for the lowest to the highest in the land. Even after unification the lower classes were still pawns in the games of the higher classes, they were just more secure and faced less day to day violence. It's a bit weird how the article doesnt discuss the army revolution that took place after Maharaja Ranjit Singh's death and the inability of any of his successors to mould themselves into a 'Strong Man of the Punjab' type leader. The Sikh army went back to a democratic type of structure, but still didnt have the ability to weed out traitors. Modern democracies on the other hand face problems based on their own personal histories and the wants and goals of the people who do the voting. Some of them may long for a strong man-type leader, but in order to may one bunch happy, you usually end up making another bunch of people unhappy. European history for the last few thousand years shows this. The ones who are usually left out are excluded from the history books to create a more nostalgic imagining of history for subsequent generations.

Is it true that Khomeini dad or grandad was a Sikh? I only hear some Iranians say this but it doesnt sound like it's true. Could have been why he ripped off the Khanda design from though.

I just hope it's historically accurate. And that it includes horses. Kids love horse games.

That's assuming it will change anything. Sometimes it's best to be completely off the radar.

Havent you heard? World Wars are the bread and butter of being Sikh! It's the only time we're useful. I bet the Germans are already sharpening their bayonets- what gleeful fun it will all be!!!! Like one big violent reunion!!!!!!!! Seriously though and jokes aside, havent we all been here before? Before World War 1 various figures in the Sikh community were talking about that the Khalsa and Britannia would overcome great evil in coming wars and together they would remake a great world for Sikhs and Britons alike. It turns out the Brits had no intention of treating Sikhs equally (Komagata Maru, Jallianwala Bagh etc) and that these supposedly clairvoyant leaders happened to be in the pay of the British Indian government. The supposedly evil enemies were just as human as us and just happened to be pawns in a game far beyond our comprehension. So what's the angle this time?

Most bullies dont care unless they face punishment or repercussions for their actions.

It's funny how the bar is set so high for visible minorities but the established communities are allowed to act completely different to the idealised view they have of themselves. The racist outbursts by people against the Idle No More movement show white canadians are just as partisan as Sikh canadians when something close to their hearts is affected. At the end of the day these lot just want your taxes and your votes and are willing to do all kinds of 'baby kissing' to make themselves look relevant.