Prem

Dr_c you say racist things about white people and then try to act all aggrieved? You assert repulsive moral equivalences and virtually try to justify this murder and then act like a victim? I find your moral sense and ethics here to be quite repulsive. You are the classic apologist for honour killings and violence, conflating trivial indiscretions with murder as equal in the moral code, but acting all shy when confronted with the basic truths and making sure you superficially condemn it whilst making apologia for their motives. You are filled with the kind of paranoia and moral backwardness that goes with this culture of oppression and hypocrisy. And you really are a racist full of hate for white people. You don't want to be demonised for the crimes of individuals Sikhs, but you are very very happy to demonise and generalise about white people in a classically racist manner. If there's one thing I know, it's that racists and bigots and those who do undercover justifications for honour crimes rarely see the light. I hope one day in your life you can reflect on your moral inversions and bigotry --- hopefully before you enact them and we see your face on the BBC News website. buddasingh --- it's these attitudes we need to uproot and discredit from amongst us. If they didnt exist, the media wouldnt have anything to racistly stereotype us with in the first place.

How can these people even dare to call themselves Sikhs? Even thinking things like that is as big a blasphemy as you can make. As far as they are concerned Sikhi is a front for 'Jatt Pride' and all the rest of it. I have visited those Jatt sites in the past and it's like being on some white Nazi site. All they talk about is the 'purity' of their Jatt blood, the 'superiority' of the Jatt 'race' over all others, and full of hate and racism against non Jatts. Truly pathetic.

Dr_c I suppose there's no point in discussing things with a racist like you who hates white people and refers to them as 'honkeys' and is angered by murderers being brought to justice for conspiring in the murder of an innocent woman, erroneously conflating issues like 1984 and the murder of Surjit Atwal, a British citizen. At least it's good to know that there are people like you out there so everyone knows that this murderous impulse still exists. Of course it took place at the taxpayers expense! That's how the justice system works, and what a great thing it is. You sound like all these racist Muslim fundamentalists who salivate with contempt for white people. Racism in all its forms is nasty, but being racist to an entire group of people just because two murderers were brought to justice for killing a woman takes on extra dimensions of inverted morality. Honour? I would like to honour all those people who think that murder in the name of 'izzat' is an evil that deserves to be punished with the harshest penalties. Your 'honour' involves murdering people --- that's not honour, that's grubby little murder.

Hey sarpanch, why don't you volunteer to do the job if you feel it so strongly?

They would change the name of our religion to 'Jatt Panth' if they thought they could get away with it.

JagtarSinghKhalsa Why is that interesting to you? Are you trying to construe and create another 'Uncle Tom' strawman to beat and parade? Do me a favour.

Well buddasingh, after reading more about this case, and the tenacious and never-ending quest for justice by Surjit's brother, I now realise that they were victims too, victims of the barbaric culture that forced them to view it as their family duty to marry his sister to a stranger at the age of sixteen. I would love to read your opinion of Dr_c's post by the way. What is your take on this particular moral inversion? Guru Fateh

Well here's an idea, the next time there's a murder that makes the headlines carried out by a white man, ask your Professor about it the next day when you see him, and ask his opinion on it, as a white man. I'm sure it'll make him stop and think.

These backward pindoo scum think they are in Punjab and can get away with this kind of thing. Not anymore. We live in a civilised country that will hunt down and prosecute anybody who tries to do things like this. When you come to England change your attitude and live by the law of the land. Furthermore, she was married when she was 16. What kind of thing is that to do? Barbarians. This is the 21st Century. Backward cave people like this, with the morality of 500 years ago, need to change their ways when living in the West. Forcing a girl of 16 to get married is pure evil. The sooner these types of backward people die out amongst Sikhs in the UK the better. If you want to live by the laws of the pind, stay in Punjab, don't come to England.

An early day motion is not the same thing as 'The UK Parliament' condemning something.

Because there are individuals amongst us who are dedicated to spreading hate, bigotry, racism and fanaticism. They have an agenda for hate. You all know their names here on the message boards. There are people who follow them too. They have an agenda -- to turn Sikhi into a cult of hate, rather than a religion of love. Everyone has to ask themselves, are you going to be hypnotised by snakes who spit venom and hate, or are you going to stand up to them and not allow Sikhi to be used as a vehicle for hate? Guru Nanak hated nobody. He was a man of pure love.

Watch this news report on the subject, including an interview with her brother, who looks like a wonderful man Surjit Athwal Murder What can we do collectively to rid ourselves of these kind of scum?

I hope they both rot in prison for the rest of their lives. I also hope that this sends a message out to all those backward people in this country that cling to their backwardness and think they can get away with oppressing Sikh women and men and boys and girls by forcing them to get married. This story should be posted to the message board of every Gurdwara in the country so that if there are any evil people thinking they can get away with it they will have a very big surprise waiting for them.

The Sikh Federation tried to make the Southall election a turban issue too, and their standing would not have resulted in 'thousands' of votes --- why would it? As far as I understand the government does not deal with them directly due to their links with the ISYF which is banned internationally as a terrorist organisations and they have achieved practically nothing with all their campaigning. But you are right, Jasdev Rai is an even bigger joke --- the guy who stood for the Christian Party got 5 more votes than him, and the Monster Raving Looney Party was not too far behind.

This is brilliant news that Gurdwaras are doing work to protect women from this. And the mentality of someone who says this: Just shows how laughably naive and ignorant some people are. That's why there's a problem. We need more initiatives like what the Hounslow Gurdwara is doing.

This blog's agenda is more like a form of Taliban Islam than Sikhi. It would seem that some Sikhs are becoming like Muslims, and want to turn Sikhi into some twisted and photcopy version of backwards Taliban Islam. I mean even invoking Satan as an entity or concept in relation to Sikhi is ridiculous and ignorant in the extreme. Time for those Talibani-Islam Sikhs to go somewhere and live in caves away from the modern world I think, have fun. Guru Fateh

AK-47 What are the links that the Muslim-Sikh Federation have with Muslim terrorist organisations? Can you point me to a link or posting on the subject? Thanks. Guru Fateh

Yes --- because they promoted HATE against an entire religion and group of people --- even though the circumstances around this 'conversion' are murky to say the least. No -- Sikhs are not called hate mobs, the individual thugs who go around promoting hate and thuggery are called that. Can you tell the difference? Yes --- get a grip indeed proactive. What a load of nonsense. I'm certainly not a person who explain terrorists and beheading videos --- but you seem very muddled about the phenomenon.

You are a credit to the ignorant fascist thugs you align yourself with :TH: Guru Fateh

Wow AK-47, you're trying to remove my comments? Learn something about freedom of speech, in between rolling on the floor and wetting your pants with laughter over something or the other.

I'm from Handsworth and have family in Aston. Don't make assumptions about people, because when you do, invariably you get egg on your face when your assumptions about them are incorrect. You seem obsessed with the sexual abuse of peoples sisters. I find your mentioning my sister as an example to be repulsive even in the abstract. But I'll drop that for a second because the obscenity of your question shows how hateful you are. Now, people are promoting hatred and violence of other religions and people in the name of this issue of Islamic evangelism, mixing many different issues into one rabble rousing campaign of rage. This is a fact. That seems to irk you. Why? It is plain and obvious that there is an unfocussed generalised campaign of hate under way in Birmingham that is not conducive to solving the problems Sikhs face, in a city in which false allegations of rape have led to race riots in the last 18 months between Blacks and Pakistanis in which one man was murdered and many many innocent people were victims of indiscriminate violence. Now, do you really think this kind of campaign of hate is a sensible way to proceed?

So who are you going to fight? Muslims in general or individuals? Let me know, because all the text messages, e-mail forwards, overheard conversations and rhetoric I've been hearing lately is all about fomenting hatred and violent thoughts against all Muslims in Birmingham.

I am an extremist? Yeah of course, I regularly demonise those I disagree with, use demagoguery and violent rhetoric, act like a macho blowhard, ape Islamists in their hate speech and go around apologising for the thuggish mentality of the new breed of Sikh Jihadis and assorted fascists who are in the middle of brewing a religious war on the streets of Birmingham, yeah sure I am an extremist :TH: Well yes, all are free to debate all issues they want to --- unfortunately the level of debate on this forum and amongst the Sikh Hooligans who have their blood pumping with excitability these days descends into violence, threats of violence, death threats, that kind of thing. The mob rules, and that's a truth that some people get itchy about. Guru Fateh

Oh AK-47 you really think you're a hard realist against a bunch of naive fools, don't ya? So how are you going to start the blood bath and Holy War against Muslims in Birmingham? Who are you going to target? Who are the Muslims who are going to pay? Give me some answers please. And how are you going to stop it when it begins?

Machete, I hope the Sikh Times installs CCTV outside their offices soon to at least get some pictures of the people who are almost inevitably now going to smash up their offices after the latest bunch of Sikh Jihadis decide to carry out another bout of violence against 'traitors to the panth' Knowing what kind of gutless cowards they are though, they'll probably cover their faces with masks or something, innit. And no, I don't work for them, did you not know that people can express independent thoughts? Guru Fateh