BhForce

babbar, why don't you share some of your experiences with bhayas and Hindus which led you to the conclusions you've come to?

Don't get mad, get even. Learn Gurbani and GurHistory. Be able to calmly make your arugments with many points per arguments. Let the other fellow get flustered and mad that he can't answer your arguments. That's the best revenge.

Very inspiring speech. Fight the inner demons and the outer demons, not each other. Who is Kamaljit Singh Shaheedsar, by the way?

What happened to my post? Anyway: I think the missionaries need to get their stories straight. Two days ago we were being told that it was the missionaries who spearheaded the whole Ludhiana protest, and the Sant Samaj were merely interlopers. Now the Ragi is saying that everybody in the protest was an RSS agent! I think he has truly slipped into senility as the jamdoots come closer.

New Delhi, 8 Dec. (by Jagtar Singh) Former chief volunteer at the Akal Takhat, Prof. Darshan Singh Khalsa, in a special chat with the Spokesman, said what a two-faced case of one thing in your mind, and something else on your face. At one time, in Basakhi 1978, permission had been given to the doctrine-destroying Narakdharis to drink the Khalsa's blood by holding a celebration in the center of Sikhi, Amritsar, on the birthday of the Khalsa. He said that today, again, the government has repeated the history of that time. Charlatans and anti-social mendicants like Ashutosh have been given the right to make social character killing centers in the land of Punjab and challenge the honour of Sikhi for many years where he keeps hundreds of misled young girls. He said that this was found out some years ago when one Bibi Surjit Kaur came crying to me in the matter of her lost amritdhari daughter Prabhjot Kaur and told me how her young daughter was misled by being given drugged parshad. She changed her name from Prabhjot Kaur to Naveen Bharti and turned away from us and is living with Ashutosh. That pained mother, crying, put a letter from her misled daughter in front of me, reading which my hair stood up. Prof. Darshan Singh Khalsa said that that girl wrote to her parents that 300 girls like me are living here. Their parents don't bother them so much as they do. I'm a major now, I want live like I desire, stop following me. One mother was telling me the tale of being a beggar from the Akal Takhat to the President, and becoming hopeless. Prof. Darshan Singh said the Singhs who had created history by releasing other people's daughters from the hands of tyrants and sent them to their homes, how can the honourable Sikh nation tolerate that today somebody dishonour their daughters. He said 3-4 years ago Joginder Singh Vedanti had held a meeting in Amritsar due to pressure from folks like us, and I was invited too. In the meeting, I had brought the entire case, that this bad situation be stopped, but on each panthic matter, the policy of biding time by making committees was adopted. If it had been stopped then, we wouldn't have to bear such unbearable tragedies as today's. But the black politics of the time do not take pity of the Sikh form or doctrine. They have done deals on everything with the RSS, and according to that deal Ashutosh was given permission to do a smagam in the center of Punjab and to please the RSS, a bowl of the Sikhs' blood was presented. Prof. Darshan Singh said, "Recognise one more conspiracy, of cleaning mud with mud: One one hand the anti-Guru Guru-usurper Ashutosh Sadh was given permission for a samagam, and on the other hand, puppets of political power and anti-Guru Guru-usurpers of the Sadhus' gang was made to stand up to stop it so that in the battle whether one or the other would glisten, it would be one to destroy the Sikh doctrines. It is a two-faced move from which the Panth has to beware and has to face this terror."

Yes, it's true S Bhindrawale and many of the SInghs used to help many ordinary Punjabis who happened to be born in Hindu families. At the same time, there are some hard-core haters out there too. Just keep both things in mind, and we'll be OK.

Yes, you should. Respecting your parents is a big deal in Sikhi. So is forgiveness. If your uncle hasn't repeated his wrongdoings in 15 years, it's wrong to hold it against him. You don't have to give a reply to every single thing that people say. But you can definitely argue things with your friends of your own age.

I think we'd be well served first of all by not calling each other agents and traitors, LOL. The example of Pakistan is a good example that we need to be careful of. There's the landlock issue (no sea access). Besides export and import problems, communications and Internet access become difficult too. Then the issue of natural resources (oil, iron, coal, water). Then the issue of Hazur/Patna Sahib. On the other hand, you have the example of Dubai, a country which has taken charge of its future and has been prospering. It has a majority population of outsiders, but it controls their political participation. It also has a moderately strict version of Islam, with leeway for non-Muslims. The model of Europe is also one to consider. There are many countries that couldn't survive on their own, but they act as a unit. You can go from one European country to another with just a passport and open borders. Many people want the same model for Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Burma, Bangladesh, etc.

Agree. We're in a peculiar situation since anybody can come in our (Sikhs') meetings. As the Sant ji mentioned, the planning meeting was held in a gurdwara. We can't go into their meetings that they do behind closed doors.

LOL, both sides of an issue, when you can't present anymore arguments, just call the other an agent. Anyway, folks, how about cutting out the portions of the quotes and just leaving the part that you're responding to so the post doesn't become 10 screens long.

It's hard to make blanket statements. There are Hindus who are hard-core haters. They are ones that Kabir Ji speaks of when he says that those who worship stones will drown in the kala pani (the deep black waters of hell). Then there are those that, for whatever reason, can't make the leap as Mehtab Singh, Bhagat Puran SIngh, and others made in this lifetime. They don't worship stones, and they prefer to read Gurbani. There are also those that don't really get into politics or religion. We don't need to alienate the latter 2 groups without reason.

OK, that's more reasonable.

In regard to 1978, the killing was done by the Nirankaris. Badal could claim innocence. In 2009, the killing was done by the police under the command of Badal. He is responsible.

Panj Granthi is the name of a kind of gutka or pothi. It contains selections from Gurbani. It often contains (other than nitnem banis): Sukhmani Sidh Gost Bavan Akhri Dakhni Oangkar Asa di war

Very good point. All the nindaks of S. Dhadrianwale have egg on their faces since the events of the past few days in Ludhiana. S. Dhadrianwale was inches from being shot; the bullet hit his driver's arm, instead, who had lurched forward. I don't know of a single ਭੜੂਆ (man who sings while women dance) who was present at the Sikh protest, how about you das_nimana or yoda?

Thanks for whoever did this great seva. I hope no one will mind if I would ask for the next step: Could some multimedia wizard break up the files according to banis? Like, instead of page 11-64, have "Jaap Sahib", "Bachittar Natak", "Akal Ustat", etc. Normally, when you put some MP3s on your media player, you want to listen to specific banis, not to specific page numbers, and then start and stop in the middle of a bani.

Please note: Not sure about anyone else, but Sant Baba Ranjit Singh Ji Dhadrianwale have been visiting since Saturday, and Singh's from their Jatha have been sent in turns every two hours to see the injured victims. Please do not spread any false propaganda without backing. This missionary-type false propaganda is not needed during these times. Dhaas also urges you to refer to certain Mahanpurakhs with a little more respect for the obvious reasons. Please give some documentary proof.We dont believe in hearsay . The inverted commas show the respect for Sant Samaaj "mahaapurakhs" but with some reservations. The funny thing is, das_nimana, how could you possibly state with certainty that no mahapurkh had visited a single hospital? It's easy to prove a positive, but very hard to prove a negative. What sort of proof do you require other that their own testimony? You don't think that the Indian media are going to be camping out in the hospitals with the Sikh injured, do you? Why do you think S. Dhadrianwale wouldn't go to the hospital? I believe he would have gone no matter which Singhs were injured, but the fact is, half the Singhs at the protest were from his jatha. So, why wouldn't he go? Granted, police had all sorts of blocks preventing movement, but he still managed to reach them. Oh, by the way, when Nirvair S Khalsa posts some documentation, will you apologise for making false accusations?

Agreed. S. Bhindrawale did not get sucked into debates on meat, Ragmala, etc. during the morchas because it would have been a distraction at the time. Read the book. Argue at a later time.

Nobody has responded to Mehtab Singh so far. Does anybody have an actual source for this news? If it's by personal communication with Singhs in Punjab, then say that.

The Wonders of the Dasam Duar, Only for Gursikhs The charlatan Mahesh Jha (i.e., "Ashutosh") is taking his chelas for a ride. He gives them a kind of mantar which supposedly gives them parkash. That's why he calls his group of thieves the Divya Jyoti Jagran Sansthan (Inner Light Awakening Institution). But the ability to give true parkash, darshan of God and not mere magical powers, is given exclusively by God to the Satguru (Guru Nanak). Only the Satguru has the power to open the Dasam Duar, upon which the seeker sees the light of God. We need to get this message out to Sikhs because something like half the people there were "Sikhs" with turbans. ਇਸੁ ਗੁਫਾ ਮਹਿ ਅਖੁਟ ਭੰਡਾਰਾ ॥ Within this cave, there is an inexhaustible treasure. ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਰਿ ਅਲਖ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ Within this cave, the Invisible and Infinite Lord abides. Satguru promises the divine light, no need for "Ashutosh": ਅੰਤਰਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਅਗਿਆਨੁ ਅੰਧੇਰੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥ Deep within, the Divine Light has dawned, and the darkness of ignorance has been dispelled. To achieve the opening of the Dasam Duar, it is necessary to restrain the lower passions: ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥ Those who close off the nine gates, and restrain the wandering mind, ਦਸਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਪਾਏ ॥ come to dwell in the Home of the Tenth Gate. ਓਥੈ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਵਜਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੬॥ There, the Unstruck Melody of the Shabad vibrates day and night. Through the Guru's Teachings, the Shabad is heard. ||6|| Without the true Word, there's only darkness, no matter how much "Ashutosh" may protest: ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਆਨੇਰਾ ॥ Without the Shabad, there is only darkness within. Only the Satguru has the key to the Dasam Gate, no one else. I.e., only Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and not Ashutosh, Bhaniarewala, Sirsawala, Beaswala, Bhaniwala, etc. ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਥਿ ਕੁੰਜੀ ਹੋਰਤੁ ਦਰੁ ਖੁਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੭॥ The key is in the hands of the True Guru; no one else can open this door. By perfect destiny, He is met. ||7|| ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ p 124 http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=124&L=9&id=5066

Great idea. It would be wonderful if kirtanias could sing the shabads posted in this thread to let the sangat hear what Gurbani says about gurnindaks: Gurmat Regarding Charlatans Like Ashutosh

There used to be a very small gurdwara to commemorate these Singhs shaheedi right behind the building of the Akal Takhat. These days, the Badal SGPC constructed a huge akhand path building in its place, and put a small board where the Baba Gurbakhsh Singh Gurdwara used to be. I don't know if the board is still there or not since it was just resting there not attached to anything.

raj, are we going to talk about who was there, who was in front, who took bullets, again?? How productive is it to sow seeds of doubt on each other? Why don't you come out and say exactly who you think is an agent. A bullet went right past S. Dhadrianwale and instead hit his driver in the arm who was next to him. Is that sufficient to prove he's not an agent, or does the man have to die, too? They definitely did not send the naujwans forward to take bullets. They told them to stay put because they saw that the scoundrel police didn't have any non-lethal crowd control methods, they were just going straight for shooting bullets. As S. Dhadrianwale mentioned in the interview (transcript is above, read it please), they would have killed hundreds of Singhs that day without any remorse. So everyone was told to just stay put. Some Singhs still moved forward, which is their choice, I guess, and in no way am I dissing them, but keep in mind, too, that in the Jaito da morcha, Singhs would not move an inch unless their jathedar told them to. Please don't come on the board and start talking trash about the leaders of the morcha. The fact is, we have to show resolve and caution at the same time. These animals have zero regard for Sikhs lives and are just looking for excuses to kill.

If they don't televise it, the very least they can do is just capture it on a digital camera and upload to Youtube.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji begins the Bachittar Natak with the above eulogy to God in the form of a sword. While this provides us with a view to one aspect of God, it also instructs us in the proper use of weapons. In the hands of a saint, and used for good purposes, they are approved. Use in the way the police did, they are accursed. The chant is immediately preceded by this heading: ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਾਲ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਉਸਤਤਿ ॥