BhForce

What was wrong with the photo? Anyway, while I have some degree of respect for God-fearing and god-loving people who happened to be born in the Islamic faith, most especially Sufis, the kind of "Muslim" that attends the HUT meetings hasn't even learned how to be an Insan (man). For the latter kind of bandars, the only thing to say to them is: ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਾਈਅਤ ਹੈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲ ਨ ਭੀਜਤ ਲਾਂਡ ਕਟਾਏ॥100 God is found through love; God isn't happy if you cut your <banned word filter activated>. Guru Gobind Singh ji.

That's a pretty comprehensive list of differences in the panth. Hopefully we will all come together as one someday. (And before that day, at least live and let live with each other.) Well, at least they claim it's from Guru Sahib. As long as a person accepts that only Guru Gobind Singh Ji has the power the create the basic rehit, we can go to that person and say, "Guru Sahib said such-and-such, so you should follow it." If, on the other hand, a person outright says "Guru Sahib did one thing, and now we in our infinite wisdom are going to do something else", there's nothing really you can say to that person. Otherwise, there are plenty of people who say "Sikhi would be the #1 faith if only we didn't have to keep hair and kakkars." Just as Ragi Darshan Singh did take amrit at some point, he can get 4 more like himself, and they could declare a "new Sikhi".

KDEEPSINGH has basically given you all there is. If you're looking for anything even more specific, you won't find it. Basically, you can take the approach in your speech of saying "We say that we want a specific tuk in Gurbani saying to do seva of parents. But before we ask for such a tuk, let's ask ourselves, are we going to follow the command? Because if we're not, there's no use asking for tuks. When Bani says to do seva, are we so blind and haughty that we don't want to give our own father a glass of water if he asks for it, and we go to the Gurdwara giving water to every body else? If we can't even do seva of our parents, what is the point of Sikhi?" There's a sakhi of Guru Gobind Singh ji where Guru ji doesn't drink water from a rich man's son who himself doesn't do any seva of his parents.

Must have taken a long time to type out. Good job.

Hmm, does anyone have any experience with a group directly claiming that they have the power to change Guru Gobind Singh ji's hukums? I think most people that don't eat meat claim that kutha means "meat" instead of claiming that they have the right to change the kutha prohibition to a general meat prohibition. Same for keski: any groups claiming that they have the power to change a kakkar? Kamarkassa: That's a new one on me. Do they claim that Guru Gobind Singh ji mandated kamarkassa as a kakkar, or that they are changing Guru's hukums?

In the language of law, this is called "plenary power". I.e., power to do anything. So, does Khalsa have plenary power or limited power? Certainly it has the power to use the Guru-jugti and initiate people into the faith by giving dikhia and Gurmantar. But does it have the power to change basic rehit or fundamentals? The Akal Takhat Jathedars have said many times that the Akal Takhat does not have the power to create rehit maryada, only to enforce it. I think that is a wise view. One of the problems I see with plenary power, is where do you stop? Will it be OK to completely refashion Sikhi into something else, such as Vedic dharam or Islamic faith, or Christian faith? That's a good rule, to an extent. I fear that the power of the Guru could be misused to alter even the parameters in which the power of the Guru is supposed to be wielded.

Thanks for posting this. One the one hand, I'm thinking it would be a good thing for us to promote this fact in the UK. I.e., we're not blowing up trains in Britain, and thinking Muslims are becoming Sikhs. On the other, I don't know if Alia Kaur would want to be a poster child for Muslims breaking away from Islam, given the threats that she is probably getting. The whole world is going to have to accept Guru Granth Sahib ji as Guru sooner or later, because the Gurdev of all is one: ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਸਰੂਪ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਜੋਤ ਜਾਨਬੋ ॥ (Guru Gobind Singh ji) The light is one in all, and all will come together.

How many people in the demonstration actually understand the intricacies and issues involved in calendar-making? Our people have been brainwashed to think that a calendar is going to give them a separate identity, whereas in fact, in daily life they act just like the average non-Sikh.

I hope they don't "repair" it by tearing it down and replacing it with marble construction.

Quite funny how he dismisses the historical evidence for Guru Sahib taking khande bate da amrit, but accepts a stupid story about taking amrit from the edge of a khanda.

Whenever they want to take someone in, they just accuse him of having RDX. LOL.

While there's no reason to kill a cat for fun, please don't be a victim of superstitions.

Try This@ http://www.saintsoldiersounds.com/multimedia/audio/Live%20Audio/2007%20Events/Sikhi%20Camp%202007/Day%205%20-%20Thursday/086%20-%20Thurs%20Eve%20-%20Bhai%20Sukhwinder%20Singh%20-%20Jikara.mp3 http://www.saintsoldiersounds.com/multimedia/audio/Live%20Audio/2007%20Events/Sikhi%20Camp%202007/Day%205%20-%20Thursday/086%20-%20Thurs%20Eve%20-%20Bhai%20Sukhwinder%20Singh%20-%20Jikara.mp3 Thanks for the link. Would it be possible to play the sound only when you click Play instead of automatically? It sounds like a cacophony in here.

There was an autobiography written by Bhai Mani Singh, a granthi of Darbar Sahib in the 20th century, in which he says he was asked: If Guru Gobind Singh Ji changed 9 Gurus hukum and gave command for kakkars, and If today Khalsa Panth is Guru, then Can we change the hukum for kakkars? The person doing the asking said he thought it would be good not to have hukum for kakkars in today's world. My question: 1. Has anybody read this book, and what response did Bhai Mani Singh give? 2. What do you think? Can we change the basics of the Sikh faith? My comments: I think we are not at the level of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. To think that we are worthy is basically deluding ourselves. Secondly, just sticking with what Guru Gobind Singh Ji commanded seems like the best option. Anything else seems like second-guessing the Satguru.

The middle few lines of the first paragraph of that Jaikara echo Bhai Gurdas Singh's vaar. Jaikara: ਧਰਤੀ ਪੈ ਗਿਆ ਹਲਚਲਾ ਸਭ ਛੋਡੇ ਘਰ ਬਾਰਾ।। ਐਸੇ ਦੁੰਦ ਕਲੇਸ਼ ਮੈਂ ਖਪਿਓ ਸਭ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ।। ਰਾਜੇ ਸ਼ਾਹ ਬਜੀਦੜੇ ਸਭ ਹੋਸੀ ਛਾਰਾ।। ਸੱਚੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਝਹੋਂ ਕੋਇ ਨਹੀਂ ਭੈ ਕਾਟਣਹਾਰਾ।। Bhai Gurdas Singh: ਜਹ ਰਾਜੇ ਸਾਹ ਅਮੀਰੜੇ ਹੋਏ ਸਭ ਛਾਰਾ।। ਫਿਰ ਸੁਨ ਕਰਿ ਐਸੀ ਧਮਕ ਕਉ ਕਾਂਪੈ ਗਿਰਿ ਭਾਰਾ।। ਤਬ ਸਭ ਧਰਤੀ ਹਲਚਲ ਭਈ ਛਾਡੇ ਘਰ ਬਾਰਾ।। ਇਉਂ ਐਸੇ ਦੁੰਦ ਕਲੇਸ਼ ਮਹਿ ਖਪਿਓ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ।। ਤਿਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੋਈ ਹੈ ਨਹੀ ਭੈ ਕਾਟਨਹਾਰਾ।। (Pauri 15) In the Nihang version, the word "ਅਮੀਰੜੇ" (rich people) is corrupted to ਬਜੀਦੜੇ, which could be thought of as a kind of apransh, I guess, in addition to other minor changes.

Care to give at least a summary as to why members should bother to click on the link?

Good for you. Do you just play it or do you make it downloadable? Please make it so you can download it as an MP4 than can play on a mobile phone, thanks.

Please everybody post your own contact information on Taksals. Thanks. True that. Most people think just all you have to do to become a Taksali is put on a "Taksali kirpan", cuss out some missionaries, tell people not eat meat, and voila! LOL.

Well, in the planet in which a separate Sikh state is formed, anything can happen. We're talking hypothetical scenarios here. Also, there's no reason to sit and take it when brainwashed Muslims are trying to proselytize us. Why not proselytize them? Besides, it's good to have Punjabis on one platform. Think big and don't be despondent.

Do you think so? I think we have to get the message to Muslim Punjabis that there ancestors were forcibly converted to Islam. Many of them have the same surnames (gots) as many of us do. Granted, I don't have the money to pay for satellite upload fees, but maybe somebody reading this does. Anyways, you have to have a goal and planning before you set out to do anything.

Thanks for the link. Is it a good thing to reveal gupt things before the niguri world? No problem in revealing non-secret information, though.

LOL! Anti-Dasam Bani Kulwant Singh Dhesi passing himself off as a AKJ rep! Next up: Babbu Mann claiming to be Nihang member Miss Pooja saying she's a Taksal member Ashutosh saying he's a member of S. Dhadrianwale jatha Just because you take amrit in a Taksal ceremony does not make you a "Taksali Singh". Like I said above, people need to be aware of these pseudo-akjs, pseudo-sants, and others. not to be funny or anything, bro how does one become a Taksal member ? I want to take amrit from Damdama Sahib and want to join Taksal, How do I become part of the Jatha ? If you want to take Amrit at Damdama Sahib (Sabo ki Talwandi) near Bathinda, go ahead. If you want to join a Taksal, you have to do that separately. For example DDT at Mehta Chowk, taksal at Boparai, etc. Once you join a taksal, you're expected to learn the traditional meanings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and then Dasam Granth. It's a long process, and continuous learning all through your life. Those are the real Taksali Singhs. The rest (like us on this board, including me) are just losers and posers. Note: It's best to join a taksal that has provision for teaching both Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Dasam Granth, because not all taksals have provisions. If that's not possible, learn Guru Granth Sahib Ji first, then get Dasam Granth santhia elsewhere. It's also best to join a taksal that uses Larivar saroop (real form of our Guru). If you can read larivar, you can certainly read pad ched, but not vice versa. Contact Info Taksal Chowk Mehta Gurdwara Gurdarshan Parkash VPO Mehta Tehsil Baba Bakala District Amritsar 143114 Taksal Village Sanrai Batala Taksal Boparai Kalan District Ludhiaan Gurudwara Sahib phone number: 271694 Taksal Sri Amritsar Amritsar Taksal Ajnala Gurmat Vidiala, DDT VPO Ajnala, Amritsar 143102 Phone 1858-221609 Jawaddi Taksal Gurdwara GurGian Parkash Village Jawaddi Kalan District Ludhiana 141013 Phone +91-161-2562596, 2561597 There are many other taksals (seminaries) as well. Please post other contact information that you know of. Thanks.

1) Passoo = Ashutosh 2) gaa(n) 3) hiran 4) sooaan = Sirsawala 5) Kookar = Bhaniarewala 6) bakree 7) baa(n)dar 8) pipal 9) pringeee

The real versions of all of these organisations (akj, ddt, etc) are based in Punjab, right? As far as I know, the US/UK/etc. versions are simply people who happened to take amrit in ceremonies arranged by travelling groups of 5 Singhs. Then those people who took amrit in UK read books or whatever to increase their Gurmat gian. Unfortunately, some of those people were perhaps not clued into the fact (as k_z pointed out above), that Bhai Randhir Singh ji (like any other mahapurkh) never doubted Dasm Bani. They came into contact with missionaries and started the doubt process. What is required now is for Gurmat-educated Singhs to help these folks understand.

LOL, we Sikhs are our own worst enemy. By the way, didn't DDT used to invite AKJ to do kirtan at Mehta? In general, if you want somebody to change something, it's better to very respectfully and quietly work with them behind the scenes rather then making a big fuss in front of the media.