BhForce

???! Anyway, Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Dhan Sri Dasmesh Ji di Bani

I can't really speak to anything k-z has posted in other threads, but in this thread, he hasn't said anything against AKJ. I agree with t_singh's post that Sikhi isnot a numbers game and we don't have to have a competition for most members in such and such a jatha or group.

Your first post was just "lol", then you went back and edited it to add the BBC article. That's why I was asking you to share what was funny. Anyway, the BBC article is basically a summary of arguments on both sides, like most news articles are. Go ahead and make your own arguments and respond to the ones above.

Care to share?

Would anybody like to upload this to a site that simply allows downloads without registering or other hassle? Much fewer people are going to download this the more hassle you have. Somebody PM an admin.

By the way, when BhaiSukhSingh said "we have to stop this", he was referring the the Radha Swamis and their stupid comments, not to the killings of goats. We can discuss topics of meat, daya, jhatka, etc. all day long, but we can all agree that the Radha Swami's comments are totally uncalled for and stupid.

I will ignore your irreverent tone for now and agree that a calendar is going to be produced by a man (since it wasn't created by Guru). That's why the calendar is named after the man. Pope Gregory's calendar, Julius's calendar, Er Purewal's calendar. That's neither here nor there. Both the Sant Smaj and Ashutosh use kilometers to mark distance, which is a unit of measure devised by a Catholic Frenchman, and the km markings on the roads in Punjab are presumably marked off by Hindu workers from Bihar. Depending on what country you live in you either use kilometers or miles, both devised by Christians. The Bikrami calendar is not the "Hindu calendar". The Hindu calendar begins in the year 3102 before Jesus. The Bikrami calendar begins in the year 56 before Jesus.

MohkamSingh, daya is a high virtue. All we are trying to talk about here is the question of degree. It's the same question put by Guru Gobind Singh Ji to Madho Das at Nanded. The point of beheading a goat was not to goad Madho Das into eating meat. It was to wake him up to the injustices being done throughout Hindustan. When he said his monastery was defiled by the goat blood, Guru Sahib asked him about the blood of innocents being spilt. And then his conscience awoke. The conscience of the Radha Swami who "cries all day" for a goat and is blind to the killings of humans is sleeping. And this is not a matter of eating meat or not.

Niddarsingh, you're not going to get anywhere by name calling. Kudos to k_z who kept his cool. Spelling Damdami as DUMDUMMY is a mistake. No one wants to hear anti-Taksal, anti-AKJ, or anti-other epithets.

NiddarSingh, if you have some proof, why don't you post some pictures?

Haha! Mods are always asleep until the very end, then they delete the whole thread. Niddarsingh, go ahead and make you point, just don't call names. Admin Note: Why don't you wake us up by using the "report" button then. Thats what its for, right?

Any link to this news article? Mitat neevi Nanaka gun changiaan tat. Humility and sweetness, Nanak, are the essence of good qualities. (From Asa di Vaar) How horrible that this tragedy had to occur when there are so many avenues for mobile phone plans in India. Now we're left with an intractable situation. Much better had the situation been avoided in the first place.

Is that Bhai Ram Singh Ji of DDT (who split from Baba Harnam Singh of Mehta) visiting in England? By the way, what do you think of parkash as it is done at Hazur Sahib?

Hey, thanks! Now can we get MohkamSingh to post that he thinks that the killing of innocent pilgrims by Indira Gandhi is much worse than the killing of a goat?

Mohkam Singh brother, why did you start the topic of meat in this thread? We can talk about meat in another thread (actually we can't because it's against the rules). Anyway, can everybody who has posted against each other (Sikh brothers) please post a single sentence against the Radha Swami fools? Or are we just going to beat each other up so the enemy doesn't have to?

LOL! Anti-Dasam Bani Kulwant Singh Dhesi passing himself off as a AKJ rep! Next up: Babbu Mann claiming to be Nihang member Miss Pooja saying she's a Taksal member Ashutosh saying he's a member of S. Dhadrianwale jatha Just because you take amrit in a Taksal ceremony does not make you a "Taksali Singh". Like I said above, people need to be aware of these pseudo-akjs, pseudo-sants, and others.

K_z, it is true you have remained calm, and I hope you continue to do so. Niddarsingh has clarified that his problem was with Dasm Granth being on the exact same platform as Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Would it be acceptable to you to have parkash in the manner of Takhat Sri Hazur Sahib?

OK, this thread sort of went off in the wrong direction about the willenhall program. This thread is actually about psuedo-akjs who are really just missionaries with keskis. As k-z has demonstrated the AKJ is rooted in traditional Sikh views, which means that it has not questioned the Bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. I think maybe the reason the so-called Babbars of Germany went off onto the wrong path is perhaps that they don't have a large Sikh community in Germany, and don't have a lot of Sikh literature in German. As such, an isolated community is vulnerable to manipulation by a few dedicated troublemakers. The same happened in Finland with the Ardas thing. Anybody have any more information on anti-Dasam bani sentiment within the AKJ and what can be done about it to assist panthic AKJs?

I wasn't even there and even I know the answer to that: The reason is the Sikh Channel cameramen were specifically instructed to do that. The organisers were complaining like crazy about that in the last few days on this forum. The reason is we are all brothers, and everyone wants to see every jatha in chardi kala. If there's a fight for the succession in DDT, non-DDT Sikhs care about it. If missionary colleges are preaching Kala Afghana, non-missionaries care about it. If a few AKJs are misguided against Dasam Patshah's bani, non-AKJ are concerned about it. I think if you took a little less confrontational approach towards K_z, you'd get a lot farther. It's hard to even see what you two are fighting about, as kz hasn't said anything against AKJ, and Niddarsingh has clarified he does not doubt Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani.

Is it any wonder Radha Swamis and other landi-buchi are winning? Bhaisukhsingh posts a link where Radha Swamis are talking nonsense against us and saying he (Radha Swami) "cried all day" over a goat. And instead of laying into the Radha Swamis, we start fighting amongst ourselves!

m16, I think the reason you are confused is because S. Dhadrianwale did indeed encourage the Singhs to halt their movement, keeping in mind the murderous intent of the police. In spite of this, the Sant was still shot at (yet, the bullet hit his driver who lurched forward). I think you are being blinded by your hatred. It is a moderate position to say that we should oppose the bad babas and support the good ones. But it is an extreme position to say that every baba is bad and we have to badmouth all of them 24x7. If you want to speak against Nurmehalwala, Sirsawala, Bhaniarewala, S. Dhanwant Singh Nawansher, S. Daljit Singh Chicgao, etc. everyone will support you, but once you start speaking against the likes of S. Dhadrianwale, people will definitely oppose you. By the way, here is S. Harnam Singh, who was next to S. Dhadrianwale:

MohkamSingh, I hope you're not trying to start a discussion on meat, because that is prohibited by the rules. Also prohibited by the rules of the forum are switching the topic of a thread. It's allowed to post a new thread and then post the link to the new thread here. Anyway, the topic of this thread is not meat, it is these ridiculous Hindus and Radha Swamis who cry all day for a goat, and have never shed a single tear for all the humans killed by Indira Gandhi and party.

There are two calendars which are based on on the birth year of Hazrat Isa (Jesus): Julian Christian calendar and Gregorian Christian calendar. The reason they aren't simply called "Christian" calendars is to clarify which one. The names of the calendars are taken from the names of their creators: Julius Caesar and Pope Gregory. Similarly, the name of the Purewali Nanakshahi calendar is taken from its creator, Er. PS Purewal, to distinguish it from other Nanakshahi calendars. Now, the question before us, is: does the Sikh panth have the right to question PS Purewal? Does it have the right to make modifications in the Purewali calendar?

niddarsingh, I take it you would be OK with parkash for Dasam Granth at a lower level and with a different palki and different manji sahib? This would express supremacy of Guru Granth Sahib while still giving respect for Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani. I didn't see any anti-AKJ sentiment in the posts by k_z above. Let's not fight for no reason whatsoever. It may be true that AKJ doesn't parkash the Dasam Granth, but neither does almost any other jathebandi or Gurdwara in the entire world simply because they don't have a bir of Dasam Granth to parkash even if they wanted to.

Based on certain Internet postings, I think there are a few people in the AKJ that think that that jatha is supposed to be "missionaries with keskis and chimtas". I hope the Singhs there use the information in this post to confront such people and get them to admit that they are opposed to the traditional basis of both that jatha and the wider Khalsa panth. No Sikh mahapurkh has ever questioned Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani. Singhs in other jathas and groups like GNNSJ, Bhai Jasbir Singh Singh Khanna's group, and others should also identify and be aware of missionary-style advocates within their own groups.