mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan

:BOW: sikhs forgive but don't forget. listen to the ardas next time. we remember all the martyrs...the concept of shaheedi is very important in sikhi. also, i know of no nation that forgets such horrendous events. 1984 is the equivalent of the holocaust for jews. did you forget the shaheedi of schote sahibzaade? guru teg bahadur ji, guru arjun ji? baba jhujaar singh ji and baba ajit singh ji? are those shaheeds different than shaheeds of our time? to forgive is our dharam. to forget is a great blunder. peace.

i disagree, i see goodness all around me (ok, not much in this forum, but still.... ) maybe i'm a "glass half full" person. when i visited india, alone, i found that sikhs were incredibly helpful and kind and honest whenever i needed help. in delhi, mumbai, amritsar, almost anywhere really. when i was in delhi and i wanted to go to gurdwara sis ganj sahib, i found a sikh rikshaw driver who not only drove me there, but walked around with me, reading the signs for me, telling me sakhis... and then he refused payment for the ride! when i was on a train to amritsar, a sikh lady sitting next to me saw that i didn't have a hotel, she called her brother who owned a hotel, he picked me up personally and drove me there from the train station. when i was in amritsar, a sikh lady gave me a kara (my first!) after we met at darbar sahib at amrit vela. when i was taking a bus from chandigarh to patiala, the man sitting behind me tried to feel my leg... the sikh conductor literally threw him out of the moving bus. when i was in patiala, i wanted to go to fatehghar sahib and then back to chd... the door man at my hotel (totally staffed by amritdharis) found me a driver who was so pious... he would do ardas before he turned on the car, every time. he drove me to fatehghar sahib, showed me around, drove me to chd, all for 500INR. when i wanted to go to anandpur sahib, i asked the sikh bus driver if he went to anandpur, he said "NAHI! anandpur SAHIB". then smiled and let me on the bus. in anandpur sahib, i met a sikh family who was visiting from the US after many years. they invited me to eat langar with them and they also showed me around and told me sakhis... in mumbai, my hotel security guard told me to "only ride in sardarji taxis". in GTB Nagur, i got completely lost and when i asked directions from a Sikh gentleman, he walked a mile out of his way to get me to the train station. even before i went to india, i had read in tour books that if you need assistance, ask a Sikh! :D i think the negative image and stereotypes we see today are about 90% from the indian media, which is extremely biased against Sikhs. :Re:

:D

"BED KATEB KAHOO MATT JHOOTHE, JHOOTHA JO NA BICHARE. call the matts of beds and katebs as false and false is the person who does not understand this fact. " i think the translation is: don't call the vedas and quran etc false, false are those who don't contemplate them. peace.

maybe its not all a big conspiracy, and its actually just people who truly feel it is their duty to spread their love for Jesus Christ and christianity to non-christians? maybe if sikhs were as firm in their faith in guru granth shaib, they would have the guts to spread the message of the gurus to the 900 million+ hindus living next door to them? the gurus set up manjhis or religious centers where guru nanak's message was preached. these days, gurdwaras arre not where any type of vichaar is done...its basically, throw money into a golak and peace out. even at harmandir sahib one stands in line for a couple hours to throw money in fornt of guru sahib's bir and then get out asap as the person behidn you will knock your turban off in the pushing and shoving. its very convenient to blame christian missionaries from the west etc, but its funny how people who don't have a clue about punjab are managing to attract converts. the sikhs' greatest wepaon is gurbaani. but the sad thing is that most sikhs don't read gurbaani or do vichaar on it, they put rumaale on it, some toof is lit, heads are rubbed on teh ground, but god forbid we actually open up guru granth sahib and read it. when non-sikhs approach us, we give them the usual speech about ten gurus, reincarnation, five K's, and when it gets to the deep meanings, the ones we don't learn in gurdwara sunday school, we are lost. that's when the christians and muslims etc get us and say so you guys have ten gods? blah blah blah... its a complete failure on our part to make the effort to read and do vichaar on gurbaani. we need to stop worshipping pictures of "gurus" and treating SGGS ji as an idol and actullay read gurbaani so we can do parchaar and counter other parchaar. without gurbaani, i don't see any way of sikhs countering this other than adopting the strategy of hindu terrorists like the RSS, BJP, Bajrang Dal, VHP etc who fight christian conversions by murder, rape, and looting, because they can't counter christian thought with Hindu philosophy(caste system, etc). peace.

:BOW: beautiful. peace.

terrorism sucks. political and religious. peace.

pata ni veer. just basing my views on one article. i guess my motive is that as guru sahibs sikhs, we really need to use the concept of raising the talwaar very judiciously. peace.

i read it and interpreted it differently. guru panth khalsa did get gurgaddi, agreed? when he says that gurbaani was always guru, is that not true? does that mean gurbaani is not guru? no, it means gurbaani was always guru as stated by guru maharaj himself. to say that he said guru granth sahib is not guru is false as he said gurbaani is guru. its a different angle i think. it can be interpreted differently as it seems to have been. i don't know the guy personally, if he is or actually was a rehitvaan gursikh or not...i'm basing my posts on the article in question. just from the pictures, his daughters and wife are keski wearing bibis. obviously believe in sikhi saroop. but again, i don't know their jeevan. my personal viewpoint is that that article didn't warrant this response. ""whoever does beadhbi of guru granth sahib ji, u should "jatka" that person right there at that very moment" -- baba jarnail singh ji " saying gurbaani was always guru and talking about guru panth khalsa doesn't warrant being "jhatkaed" in my view. peace.

yeah, rich people usually don't go to jail for long...this is true in western nations as well. prisons were made for the poor and helpless it seems. but this capatin vs badal clan thing seems to be heating up like a good old desi soap opera, like Khusum or something The Congrees leader Bhattal is quite happy with what happened, she gets the chance to lead with Amarinder out of the way. She probably thanked Badal. Bhattal is from the old Beant Singh faction and appeals more to the Hindus as she makes attacks on Sikh activists even called Amarinder a Khalistani when he stopped the water agreements with Harayna. i think i read that captain skips out on functions celebrating beant sio...

how many of you guys can read punjabi? because he didn't disrespect gurbaani in his article. its these kinds of mindless killing sprees which helped destroy the movement. how would you guys like it if people went around gunning down AKJ members for disrespecting guru granth sahib by not reading raag maala and saying its not baani? serioulsy, think about it. every sikh has the right to disagree with each other. killing an unarmed 60 year old for writing an article that may have offended someone, that's terrorism man. read that article and he was ripping on badal and how he has destroyed the concept of guru panth khalsa. he wrote that gurbaani was always guru. anyone who hails this as some heroic act, all i gotta say is that all those sukhamni sahib paaths, 108 jap ji sahibs or what ever number it is...bunch of pakhand. because a person who reads that much baani with true devotion wouldn't sink to such a level as this. its easy to kill a powerless old man with no political power, but badal, who has done his best to destroy the sovereignty of sikh institutions, walks freely. disgusting.

right on. have baani(word of God) engrained into our minds. so when we are tempted to become bemukh from satguru, we remember baani and stay away from avguns(devil), or panj chors. peace.

man, can you imagine if the congress wins the next elections. badal and co better get ready to hit the prison cells...man its gonna get nasty.....

:nishaan_sahib_right: right on. peace.

well if you are worried about your shoes then you also gotta worry about your socks. are you gonna sit on the bus with your socks and shoes off in the middle of winter? then you may want to wash your hands and feet too before you read. just read the gurbaani. relax. gurbaani says meditate on naam sitting, standing, with every breath. nowhere does it say with bare feet with every breath. in gurdwaras, i think its like this...what's the first thing you do when you go to someone's house? you take off your shoes. why? cause nobody wants your dirty shoe tracks on their carpets or floor. same goes for gurdwaras. if we wore shoes in the darbar, just imagine the clean-up effort required. its just common sense when we eneter guru ghar to take off our shoes, jsut as it is common sense to wear shoes on a bus, which i doubt is as clean as the carpet in your house or guru ghar. take it easy. peace.

self edited.

:D

give them at least the title of "quami hamdard". meaning those that share the pain with the sikh quam. they obviously are not gursikhs. but reading about sikhs being hunted by that tyrant made them act, making them people who had feelings for the sikh nation. there have been many non-sikhs who stood alongside the khalsa. in the big scheme of things, buddasingh, i look at this from another angle: out of all those mona punjabis who inhabit the punjab and will most definetly inhabit the punjab when a sovereign punjab state is established, a few stand alongside the sikh nation. which, in my view, is a good sign. the importance of kes and kakaars cannot be downplayed by these two men. why? look at the worship of bhagat singh. out of all the heroes who fought the british for liberation, the countless gursikhs, the gadari baabe, in sikhi saroop, the guy who cut his kesh, was supposedly an athiest, is the guy propped up the most, why? maybe to promote the comrade belief in punjab? maybe to have sikh youth shave and keep a mustache and wear a hat? maybe, but it hasn't worked. and i doubt these two men will lead to any confusion in the sikh quam about guru sahib's saroop. if anything, it may get the bhangra crews interested in quami issues. maybe turn on a few light bulbs. i think many punjabis view the events of the 80s and 90s in punjab as some kind of kattar sikhs vs secularism thing. this may bring about a change in that mindset. "The courage to kill Phoola, but not enough faith in sikhi and courage to keep kes??" buddasingh, the same can be asked in the opposite direction, the courage to keep kesh and faith in sikhi, but not enough courage to take out poohla. we should probably wait for a message from these two men from their own mouths. what was their motivation, etc.... my personal take on these men is, that i have no idea about their sharda for guru sahib. did they ever have the kirpa of reading gurbaani, dong sangat of gursikhs etc? i honestly don't know. does it take courage to keep kesh? i think it takes sharda. does it take sharda to kill someone? no, it takes simple krodh many times, look at the delhi pogroms. peace.

mehtab singh why are you surprised, look at india's other glorious list of shaheeds: shaheed indira gandhi, beant sio, Gobind ram, rajiv gandhi,......... http://www.punjabpoliceindia.org/martyrs.aspx check out some more of punjab police's finest... enjoy.

Harinder singh you have got to change your screen name to NOSTRADAMUS J/K peace.

"Here he established the Udasis sect who traveled far and wide to spread the Word of Nanaak." how could someone who didn't live the life of a sikh spread the message of guru nanak far and wide? it can be seen by presnet day udassis that the message that was spread was far from sikhi. we have a picture in our house in punjab that says that guru arjun ji couldn't finish writing sukhmani sahib and came to baba sri chand for help. so as you can see, this is the nonsense being spread over there. please don't legitimize their nonsense here. peace.

do only "pure" people deserve independence? because if so, what the heck are Indians doing with a free india? i have yet to meet a people who don't deserve freedom. yes the people are corrupt, but the concept is not. sikhs are corrupt, doesn't mean we shouldn't have sikhi or khalsa panth. peace.

"Raja Ranjit Singh (sorry but my Maharaja is only Guru Sahib" respect. case closed. peace.

makes you wonder, with all the sants, sadhus, babas, achaaryas, pundits, yogis, etc etc in punjab and india, you'd think flood relief would be a cake walk. but its not. why? maybe india has more posers than real sants? peace.

aaah, a fellow virgo, happy burday as they say in engjabi peace.