Manchester_Sikhi

This is a nitty-gritty question. I don't see any problem with non-amrit. preparing amritd. food or langar food. As long as they wash their hands (this relates to anyone, amritd. or non amritd.) and are clean, havent drunk alcohol or eaten meat during the day then I dont see it being a problem. In our local gudwara in birmingham, there are hardly any amritd. sevedars there, and when you go out to eat, or if you buy food from the shop, the chances are the person (or machine) preparing the food isnt an amritd. let alone a Sikh. I think basic common sense should prevail here, as long as the person preparing the food is 'clean', it shouldn't be an issue. Of course, I bet you someone will rebute my comments and say only amritdharis should preapre food for other amritdharis!!!

TD rock! I love 'em!!!

The true name of the Guru resides in Naam and listening to that "sound" current...that is the true name.

True!!! But this Gutka is great and very easy for to understand and interpret for those whose native language isnt punjabi/gurmuki. I shall wait!!! LOL

OK, I'm stuck now. I've e-mailed SikhLink to ask about international orders...no reply. I've e-mailed BCSikhYouth....no reply. I've e-mailed Tapoban....no reply! Dunno why people have e-mails when they dont reply! LOL Any ideas anyone?

I think its more important that if we have strong views about other people taking GGSJ to a party hall because of the drink/smoke/meat issue, we OURSELVES have to make sure we don't go to a Gudware if we are 'obsessed' or 'partake' in drinking alcohol, eating meat (possily), smoking etc etc....as much as it's about keep maharaji in a clean environment, we also have to make sure our own vessel (i.e. our body) is clean whenever we are in the presence of Maharaji. And if this means stopping drinking or stop smoking...then we should do such things before we can really present outselves to Maharaji

There has been a lot of debate about carrying out weddings in party halls with GGSJ present. I agree, this should not be done. But take a moment and think deeper. When we go to the Gudwara, are we not like that party hall? If we drink/smoke/eat meat(please dont jump on that last one), isn't that the same as taking Maharaji to the Party Hall? If we do such things, knowing they are not allowed, then what is the difference between us going into Maharaji's 'Party Hall' , aka the Gudwara (and I dont mean that literally) and taking Maharaji to a party hall that serves meat/alcohol and such?? Whilst a lot of people are in support of this idea, rightly so, maybe we should be thinking of it from both points of view...does Maharaji really want drinking/smoking/meat-eating/vice ridden filth (again, NO OFFENCE meant to anyone, but if we were all clean and perfect, we wouldnt be here would we) within his own hall?

There was a discussion on this very subject a few weeks ago...do a search for contraception. One point raised was the situation of a woman who was raped, and fell pregnant, in which case it was acceptable. What about if the child would seriously harm the mother, can you justify the child growing up with no mother? Actually, contraception (if you do a search) is not banned per-sa...it's not mentioned in any lit. or in the Rehyt M. Contraception is a personal issue within Sikhi I think. Some would say its a no-no, but if you can justify the use of a contraceptive, and it's not forbidden, what is the issue? The only person who will judge you is GuruJi. The essence of the discussion is linked to sex. As long as that sex is practised within a husband-wife situation (i.e. no sex before marrage) then it's a householders lifestyle and not an issue. Some people have even go as far as saying you shouldnt have sex at all except when you wish to procreate....I think this is an extreme. Sex is not KAAM...the excess of sex IS KAAM

This is underpinning a wider problem with Sikhism at the moment, espicially in the western world. Many say Sikhism has no problem, but it HAS MANY problems. It is so difficult to get the youth nowadays (me included) to get up and fight for something they belive in, aka SIKHI. With alll the corruption going around (we all know it happens, we just chose to ignore it), I don't understand why we don't speak out/shout and make some noise and actually do something about it. We need some pro-active youth forums, not just Sikhi camps and socities. We need something more proactive that will give us a voice and make the older generation hear what we have to say. How we go about that, I don't know. I raised this point months ago, but we need to be open and transparent with the Sangats donations within our Gudware firstly and foremost. This is often the cause of much corruption and mistrust. We next need to dissolve all committe run Gudware and have a Sangat lead and organised centre for worship. It sometimes seems to me that we are edging closer to a 'civil-war' to some extent, within Sikhi, but we just need a little push to get it there. I use the word civil-war very generally, but I don't see any effect of the current youth in the Gudware i've been do. Things will change, and when our elders retire from services in committess, what then? There isnt enough youth to are keen or interested in Sikhi nowadays to continue their seva....so what then? Some will say Sikhi is strong and will survive, of which I have no doubt. But how it will compare to the current incarnation of Sikhi is anyones guess.

Ooops...i thnik SikhLink do take international orders, my mistake!

Thanks... by the way, LOL...last time I checked, I was a man! I'll e-mail the BC sikhyouth, but if any of you US/Canadian folk out there are able to order one from http://www.sikhlink.net/store/BookDetails....temID=BK-EP-859 I'll send you the cash and cover postage to the UK. It seems like I can't order it from over here as they don't ship to the UK. Thanks for the suggestions though!

I'm trying to track down this book that my freind has: Singh, Dr.Santokh (1990). English Transliteration and Interpretation of Nitnaym Baanees, Sikh Prayers for English Speaking Sikh Youth. Sikh Resource Centre. ISBN 18954710 I know its published/prined in Canada and seeing as there are lots of Canadian folk on here I need you help!!! If you can track it down I'll paypal you over postage and cost, I REAAAALLLLLY want to get a copy of this!!! Thank you for your help!!!! (and a free samosa for the person who tracks it down!!!) :TH:

I have a question... I want a cat, but I have Maharaji in my house. I don't see there being a problem with having cats/animals in the house, but what do you guys think? Also, what happened if the cat went into Maharaji's room? These are just my random thoughts, so don't take them too seriously, it was just something I thought about. I still have to get the cat idea past my mom, an avid cat-hater!!!!

Final point to make, seems like some of us on here are leaning towards the Islamic ideas of superiority of Sikhism over all other religions..aka..Sikhism is the only way. Surely THIS IS EXACTLY what Guru Nanak Ji wanted us NOT TO DO. Didn't his Bhakti-reformation take some of the wonderful aspects of both Hinduism, Islam and other movements, and mould these into Sikhism? Isn't this acceptance of superiorty of Sikhism thing a little akin to ego? I'm not saying we shouldnt be proud of Sikhsim. But being proud of Sikhism or proud that Sikhism is the only way....isnt that just ego? Where will that lead us? It will make out head bigger thinking we are great.... Why not just accept that we are fortunate to be on the Sikhi path and do our duty as Maharaji stated without getting into USELESS discussion on the greatness of Sikhi. The GREATNESS of Sikhi is a personal issue...we develop the feeling and acceptance of greatness of sikhi within outselfs through our duties as a Sikh. There is no need to try and persaude other or even waste out time with discussion like this because they DO NOT bring us any closer to Maharaji do they? All this time me and you and everyone spent debating the greatness of Sikhi (and the greatness of every religion and the greatness of the world and all within it) in the human sense is all wasted. These few precious minutes could have been spent ACTUALLY seeing the greatness of Sikhi via NAAM and SIMRAN....now we have wasted 2 more mintues of our life.... Forgive me if I have offended anyone, but why can't we just stop debating such issues and realise THAT greatness is a person issue and comes from seeing Maharaji within ourselves and within our acceptance of others (non-Sikhs)>>> that IS the greatness of SIkhi!!!

Ok, so what happened before 1500 AD? What happened to all the souls who belived in religions and paths before the creation of Sikhi? I don't think it matter whether we think Sikhi is the only path or not. What does matter is Naam, Simran, Seva and Love, because we will never really be sure of what happens to other jiva who belive in other things apart from Sikhi....but we can be sure of what happens if we don't treat each other with respect, love one another, attend to simran, do selfless seva and lead dishonest lives. For me anyway I dont care what other people belive in or not, I respect every brother and sister in the world, be they sikh, muslim, hindu, christian, jewish or others..and I respect their beliefs and teachings. But for me, I just belive in GuruJi....I JUST BELIVE IN GURU JI...I have no need to think or feel anything else for anyone else in the world, i have no need to look at and accept or not accept anyone elses religion....it's just as simple as me being focused on my Guru....let others have their own 'Guru' but I have one Lord and he is my Lord.

OK Bhaji. I'm glad you raised that point because I never realised the followers were all business class and women, but if that points makes you feel better I'm happy for you. Oh, by the way, maybe it would also benefit the sangat if you could perhaps show us those stats so we can all see this fact? Also, I don't quite see your point, what with the followers all being women and wealthy? How does that affect or not affect SIKHI? How does that affect or not affect RS? You could say the same about the Gudwara I attend...or perhaps the Church down the road. What about the Church that Bill Gates attend...I'm sure his must be the richest church in the world... Oh what the world is coming too. Please explain how apparant wealthy ( wealth = WORTH NOTHING IN THE EYES OF THE LORD) followers is a good or bad thing? So what if they are wealthy, many Sangat and many Sikhs are loaded and drive BMWs and MERCs...>Sikhs are reputed to be great Business men...thus your local Gudwara would also attract wealthy men and women. Please think of your arguments and state SOLID facts before making judgements on other religions/casts. If you show me a list of stats pointing out the followers of RS are 'wealthy' I'll take your point.....I'll accept they are wealthy...but thats it...because you are not forming a proper argument or discussion but merley stating a fact without a proper basis behind it. OK, well, seems like there will always be faith bashers who don't see the value in respecting other faiths and followers. I'm neither an expert on RS or an expert on Sikhi, but from my OWN EXPEREINCE of BOTH sides, I glady accept both the RS-teachings the SIKHI-Faith as my own and embrace them. Maybe those argueing without a proper basis for their views should also EXPERIENCE both sides and then come back to me with a proper basis for the arguments. Forgive me if I have offended anyone and these are my own views only. Also sorry for the numerous spelling errors, but I just wanted to raise the issue that we must STOP bashing eachother around the heads for no good reason. NAAM SIMRAM SEVA GURU-PYAR, that should be our focus. Let others be and let other follow what they want. We should just make sure we do those four things and nothing else.

ERM...LOOTING THE SANGAT? Thats a bit harsh as you or I don't know the finacial status behind the organisation. You're words are presumptions. Go by the facts my brother. They open up a FREE/CLEAN hospital. They have foreign doctors working for free...they save the sight of thousands or maybe millions each year regardless of colour/caste... Where is the bad in that? Unless you can backup your claims, I suggest you not speak at all...this goes for me and everyone else too..its a general statement, speak less, eat less and sleep less. These areguments and discussion will always remain...but please read the posting by someone in the GUPT section called THIS FORUM...that Bhaji/Bhanji said it perfectly.

>Maybe you can explain why the RS sangat is usually made up of 'unpar' panjabi >women, and indian business people from across the world. LOL, do I look like I am the answer to everything...no offence meant..LOL. Thats a question I can;t answer can I. I can tell you that the biggest meeting centre is in birmingham. I can tell you that in the sangat I see whites/black and apna...some with DKNY, some with CK, some with material that looks expensive..... Do I know their backgrounds? Do I know their status? No. Do I care? Not really... A flame doesn't selectively attract beautifully looking flies does it? A flame attracts all flies...regardless of the colour, creed, clothes or status. Maharaji isn't the abode of the low status or high status...but it's for everyone.. The same goes with all religions and casts. They attract whoever associates with their message and teachings. In fact, most of my family are from the low caste (if you want to use such a STUPID social system) and lots of RS in B'ham are lower castes. Seems like you have some kind of answer to your own question...let me guess....RSS or Hindu involvement?

Brothers and Sisters, why do you go by another persons word? Why don't we go and LOOK for ourselves and see what these people are preaching.... THAT is the only was you will be able to make your own mind up about things. When you buy a car you do read reviews and ask people, the ultimate choice comes when you examine the car in detail when it's in front of you. You take it for a test drive..feel the handelling and gears...then you buy. You don't just get the latest car magazine, read the review and then order one over the phone without seeing it. So why be so naive and take MY description or word, or anyone elses??? I think we as Sangat get lazy sometimes. We take people's word on too many things. YOU go out there and find these things out for yourself. THEN you can make a balanced judgement on the facts. The same goes for Maharaji. You have to go and read Maharaji for yourself and understand what's in it...you have to read it carefully, practise you life as taught and then you will understand. You can read GGSJ all you life...but if you can;t be bothered to do Simran...you will get no-where. You could visit Gudware once a week...spend 1 hour there thinking about Maharaji (but also what you'll eat in the Langar, what the week will be like, your family, your girlfriend) but where will it get u? No-where. Why waste you're time debating other religions and sects...can you say you know enough about your own beliefs and religions? If you can, you must be God!! I'm no expert on anything really. All I do is to follow MY Maharaji and try to do my Simran and love all and everyone. I respect ALL relgions and LOVE all faiths, sects and cultures. That is my task...Maharajis task is to judge US and it's not for US to judge one-another.

yes, they also have set up other eye hospital across india and offer free treatment in them. But you just know someone out there will always link this to some kinda of weird conspiricy between RSS or HINDUS or MUSLIMS.... I dunno what the world is coming to, we have many things we need to sort out within Sikhi...espicially in the west, but we some of us still can't accept other faiths or teachings or religions and feel threatened by such factions.

Oh, and by the way...you might want to add these people to your list too: 1)the millions of Hindu GODS and the MILLIONS of Hindu belivers 2)Buddah 3)Mohammed ( and the soon to be billions of Muslims Jiva's) 4)Christ (and their millions of followers) 5)....any other sect or religion who follows the teachings of their own "GURU" or "SAINT"

You can call RS whatever you want really, these are all words...and I'm not for or against RS or any other sect. For me, I have ONE Maharaji....GGSJ. With regards to RS and any other sects...why are we getting so afraid and nervous... It seems like Bhaji in the blue text is angry or annoyed, which is fine, we are all entitled to our views. But we will get into a situation like Muslims, with violence between 'sects' despite the fact that they are all Muslims. RS is NOOOOOOT a religion, so the issue of whether its Sikh or ANTI SIKH is baseless. I think we should just let all sects be and do what they want (within reason). Why should we fear the effects upon the Sangat? Are we that scared and afraid that other 'factions/groups' are going to destroy us? Are we not LIONS, are we not strong? Why should we fear anyone human? GOD is the only person we should fear. Let's not get into the discussion of arguments about other sects and religions. Sikhism is not the only way to 'God'. By stateing that fact, I'm not denoucing SIKHI at all...but we must have tolerance of other jiva's views and beliefs. If they directly impinge upon our own and threaten our physical survival (and I'm not talking about the so-called risk of these factions on Sikhi, i mean direct physical action on Maharaji or Gudware or Sangat), then we may be justified to be angry. But THERE IS ONE GOD...many religions all leading to one place. So why should we be scared of anyone human, and sect, group, race, colour, poltical party or even animals...? Be scared of GuruJi, and no-one else. As you will read in my previous post, I've nothing against RS at all (nor any other sect). For me, RS has explained numerous Bania to me and passages from other holy persons, it has made me stay on the path...live a SIKHI life. I don't drink, eat meat, do drugs, smoke...I work hard and try not to hurt anyone feelings. I pray each day and still leave a normal life with my parents and friends. This is all Gurus Grace. There is nothing wrong with people having different views to us, but lets not escalte these sorts of discussion into a "SIKHI is everything and anyone who doesnt belive in it is an infadel" type of Muslim viewpoint. God is in all of us, so why hurt God?

Heres my own views: 1. Started of by right wing hindus (rss types) to break up sikhs ....can;t comment on this. If you actually go to some of the RS meetings, as I have done...because my family are RS/SIKH....you will see that there is NO ANTI-SIKHISM or ANTI-any other religion taught. It's stated RS is a spiritual path...much akin to the 3HO practised in the states by Yogi Bhajan. They teach and recite many bania from GGSJ, as well as other saints such as Kabir etc etc. They teach that ALL religions have one thing in common...aka GOD...and that religions, in their current form, are made by MAN, and what we need to do is our SIMRAN and LOVE and RESPECT each other. 2. Founder is a muslim (same intentions as above) ....this is a little erronomous......how would you classifiy Guru Nanak Ji before he 'created' SIkhism??? If you see all current lines of RS-heads...they are ALL GurSikh.... 3. Someone who was kicked out of a Gurdwara after mischievous behaviour, started them off ....again...this is heresay...I can't back it up or not...but i doubt ANYONE can actually say weather these ppl were kicked out or not. The point of this is that it is UP TO YOU to make up your own mind as to the teachings of any religion or saint or spiritual person...the onus is upon YOU are the individual...this site will give you advice...but to understand any religion or sect YOU HAVE TO EXAMINE IT AND LOOK INTO THE DEEPER MEANING before you make judgement. What I would suggest you do, is to leave all this discussion about RS etc etc behind and actually go and see first hand what its all about...find you local RS centre and go see what they talk about...if you don't like it...fine...leave them to do what they want and you just keep focused on your Simran and Sadh Sangat... This topic has been discussed so many times and I've posted something about it already.. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=17268 read the post and re-read my posting. essentially, its up to you to make your own mind up. I have already...and it's stated clearly in that post. Remember, if you dont see god in all, you dont see God at all..

I was always under the impression that suicide is the WORST sin ever. I guess it makes sense of you consider Maharaji created us all, and if we terminated out lives, the it's a snub to Maharaji....