JagsawSingh

I my experience, Badal and co have been voted in by the masses each election based on thsee 2 simple pre-election promises made by his local candidates: Pukki shadk (paved road) leading up to the voter's khoo (well) and fields Free bijli (electricity) for the farmer Honest to truth, I've been in rural Punjab during election time and these 2 promises are always the ones that sway the vote. The way I see it then, we Sikhs in the west should each do our bit by collectively paying for pend development in terms of paved roads and electricity and spread Sikhi at the same time. If you think of it in terms of Badal being a plate of out of date dodgy doner kebeb meat, we the people being the stomach and the dodgy meat lining the inside of our colon instead of being passed down to the toilet........We need to cut out the middle man (the people)....i.e flush the dodgy meat (Badal) straight down the toilet. We, collectively, have enough financial power to ensure his pre-election promises are no longer valid or neccessary.

I think its a mistake concentrating too much on the 'Rape' vs 'Murder' analogy. The brutal fact is that the white media in the west will make more of the white briton who slightly injurs his thumb in a coach accident in France than it will of the brown briton who gets murdered while on a family holiday in India or the black briton who gets murdered while on a family holiday in Jamaica. For the white man and his injured thumb, we will get a tv news reporter outside the hospital giving live updates such as "yes I've spoken to the doctors Sue, and they say Mr Smith is stable, and no permanent damage has been caused to the thumb". Meanwhile, nobody is ever told how hundreds of British Punjabis have been murdered in Punjab in the last decade because of land ownership disputes and hundreds of British West Indians have been murdered in Jamaica because of robbery. Their lives, because of the colour of their skins, are worthless. Worthless to the point that they are not deemed worthy to mention when they are taken. In contrast, the white man and his sprained finger on holiday in Europe is worth mentioning. It is, after all, a precious white life. To this effect, none here should be surprised when a brown life taken anywhere is not mentioned on the news. It is a worthless life. 'Rape' in brown lands however, is an interesting subject for them. Anything that reinforces their stereotypical view about brown men treating women like shite is worthy of being mentioned. Know your place in this society. Know your value in this society.

Good stuff Proactive. I'm all for we Sikhs using our brains intellectually. Looking at data. Studying data. Analysing data. Finding things out from data. And I salute you sir for doing just that, looking at that particular data in a different way from which I looked at it, analysing it taking into account outside peripherals, and drawing from it an extremely valid conclusion. Statistics don't lie. They have a wonderfull story to tell. And, in a way, it is statistics that set a people free. Let us remember at this point what really led to the downfall of the British Raj in India. The bitter truth is that it was their own love for collectiing statistical facts and figures that, in the end, jumped up and bit them on the bottom. The stats were meant to help them intellectually understand the lands they owned but in the end it was Indians who, from those stats, found out the true cost of their non-freedom. This is what we Sikhs need. We don't need more parcharaks. We've got more than enough of those. We don't need more Ragis and Kirtanis. We've got enough of those. We desperately need men and women of intelligence. Men and women of academia. For example, for years we've been saying how 90% of the rural youths in Punjab are unemployed despite having university degrees and double degrees. Now, from these stats, we can see that a university graduate in Punjab is 4 times more likely to be in the prison system than anywhere else in the whole of India. It is stats like these, if we use them wisely, that can set a people free.

Actually that reminds me Big Tera, I forgot all about you. Thanks for that. There is also a 3rd type of Sikh that will always be loving India no matter what the statistics show. So: 3. A mixture of numbers 1 and 2. An Uncle Tom who is also suffering from mental health issues.

Yeah but to be fair, he did have a 2 o'clock appointment down the DSS to sign on for the dole. Miss that and they would have docked his benefits.

To get through to the Somalians we must, during our street parchars, also hand out leaflets on claiming social security benefits and perhaps, in between katha, throw in some tips every now and then about committing vehicle accident insurance fraud. To get through to them we must give them what they want.

I see the lovely mahants that control the Golden Temple used the quiet period to arrange for some half naked dancing girls to dance there: http://dailysikhupdates.com/275-years-later-massa-rangars-act-happens-again-at-sri-darbar-sahib/

So I clicked on this thread because I saw the thread title "URGENT - Marriage". That got my attention because I started asking myself what could be so 'urgent' about marriage and I came to the conclusion that there must obviously be a baby due soon, so time is of the essence, hence the urgency. I needn't have bothered. Turns out there is not only no urgency, but the boy and girl are not even in a relationship. Turns out he's seen a girl with his eyes, thinks he likes her really alot, hasn't actually told her yet but is under the impression from her body language that she knows how he feels and on this basis wants our advice on stopping her parents and family from continuing with the very normal marriage process that is going on. Of all the bloody 'URGENT' threads I have ever read in my entire life I have to say this is the most NON-urgent EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!

A 'Fact' already mentioned in my message, was the existence in our community of 'Uncle Tom' types, just as they exist in the American black community, so I don't think I need to respond in any detail to that remark. At the end of the day, only 2 types of Sikhs can look at the official Indian statistics which clearly show that a Sikh in Hindu India is 3 times more likely than a Hindu to be arrested - 3 x more likely than a Hindu to be charged with an offence - 3 x more likely than a Hindu to be taken to court - 3 x more likely than a Hindu to be given a custodial sentence by a judge - 3 x more likely than a Hindu to lose his freedom and liberty, and yet still come to the conclusion that India is the country for Sikhs. Those 2 types of Sikhs are: Blind ones or those sufering mental issues Uncle Toms

Stupider than racism itself are people with such low intelligence that they do not possess the mental capability to figure out for themselves the deeper context and meaning behind a message. For example, someone like yourself who wasn't able to see how I used official Indian government figures to highlight how the exact same damning statistics affecting blacks in America also apply to Sikhs in India. We both....Sikhs in India and blacks in America....both occupy the exact same position in which the system sees us as sub-human and thus takes away our liberty and the public sees us as sub-human and thus takes away our dignity. In the case of the blacks in America, the racist system justifies the status quo by seeing the victims as sub-human "ni*gers". Thus, a thread of solidarity with black people in America in which stats are published showing we too have exactly the same level of institutionalised racism in India. And of course possess the exact same number of uncle toms too. The lesson for you then, singhbjsingh, is to educate yourself a bit more. Understand context in a thing before wrongly misunderstanding a thing. So, once again, according to official Indian statistics, we suffer the same amount of institutionalised racism in India as the blacks do in America. We are officially 3 times more likely to lose our freedom than a Hindu, despite the fact that no Sikh belongs to one of the millions of official hindu 'criminal tribes/castes' and Sikhs do not have millions of homeless that have to steal to survive. Take things like that into account and the Indian system is around 800% more likely to take away the life and liberty of a Sikh than it is a Hindu. Hindus = 240 prisoners per million people Sikhs = 840 prisoners per million people

What we already know is now so official even the Hindus can't deny it although the India loving Sikhs will still erase it from their mind. Some of them (India supporting Sikhs) still hang on to outdated notions of the position of a Sikh, not realising what the reality actually is. For example, they often like to quote these 3 misconcptions: Misconception: Punjab is the richest state in India. We're doing great there. Fact: Punjab stopped being the richest state in India many many years ago. Over the last 5 or 6 years it has been slipping lower and lower at an alarming rate and is now at a danger of slipping into the lower half of the table. Misconception: Sikhs have respect in India. The dastar has respect in India. Fact: Sikhs, are the national joke. That 'fact' is so inbedded and into the culture of India that it is absolutely 100% ok for children, TV stars, news, work managers etc to make these remarks about "how thick in the brain dept the sikh is". If thats 'respect', then please god give me disrespect anyday. Misconception: India is a free secular country in which Sikhs are equal 1st class citizens. Fact; Officially wrong !!! The following was published in India a couple of days ago. It shows that Sikhs in India suffer from exactly the same institutionalised prejudice within the system that blacks in America suffer from. Exactly the same. Now, bearing in mind how a Sikh is far less likely than a Hindu to be a member of a criminal tribe, far less likely than a Hindu to be homeless and thus desperate to steal etc the following results are absolutely startling. There are many institutions and over the years we, as Sikhs, have been handed example after example of how that institution sees Sikhs as little more than animals. For example within education the Indians keep telling us how much they dislike us in the way that they send our kids home from exams for wearing the 5 k's, send kids home for wearing the dastar etc. It keeps happening but we've remained asleep. But the recently released statistics about the Indian criminal justice system are damning beyond words. The stats show clearly what kind of a life, freedom and future a Sikh and his children have in India. The stats show clearly what India officialy thinks of his and his children's value as a human being. From arrest, to charge, to trial, to imprisonment.....the official Indian stats show clearly how the Sikhs are most persecuted community in India. The community MOST likely to have his freedom taken away from him and 3 times more likely to be imprisoned than a Hindu !!!!!!!! http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/hindus-least-likely-to-be-jailed-sikhs-christians-most-likely/story-Og4PhnhYsPlVLJglKyeOKL.html

Thats exactly what I said a few messages ago when I talked about the article in the Times of India 5 days ago. That article made it clear that a powerfull shop owner in Jalandhar called Dinesh Khanna made disgusting remarks about Sikh Gurus and all the other Hindu shop keepers joined him and started pelting the Sikhs with bricks and stones. So thats Jalandhar city centre, the place that 80% of the overseas Sikhs do their shopping when back in Punjab. And yet here we are 4 or 5 days later and yet still no Sikh organisation anywhere has supplied any of the overseas Sikhs with the name of Dinesh Khanna's cloth shop and the names of the other shops that pelting sikhs with stones. We need the names of those shops so we can tell our families to boycott them. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Protesters-shopkeepers-clash-over-shutdown-call-in-Jalandhar/articleshow/49461702.cms

. Actually there is a good point there and it reminds me of something I was going to write a few days ago when Hindu shopkeepers in Jalandhar city centre strarted fighting with the Sikh protestors. That report in Indian newspapers mentioned how one particularly powerfull shopkeeper there, a Dinesh Khanna, started making derogatory remarks about the Sikh Gurus as the Sikh protestors marched by. This of course infuriated the Sikhs and a full scale riot ensued in which all the Hindu shopkeepers took the side of that particular Hindu shopkeeper. So, the point is, Jalandhar city centre is where the vast majority of Punjabis abroad do their shopping when back in Punjab. People like Dinesh Khanna and those others live off the money of overseas Sikhs. But this is where we sometimes show ourselves to be not very well organised and bit of a shambles. I mean the Indian news article is now 4 days old and clearly states how Dinesh Khanna shouts out disgusting things about the Sikh Gurus and yet amazingly no Sikh group or individual out there as seen fit to supply us overseas Sikhs with the name of Dinesh Khanna's store and the names of the other stores that started pelting Sikhs with bricks and stones so that we tell our families to boycott them. So whilst I somewhat agree with khoonkabadlakhoon when he says we should protest in the city rather than block our own pends I most certainly do NOT agree with his when he says this: ^That uneducated argument displays so well how little understanding you actually have. The reason we Sikhs have so forcefully been demonstrrating in western countries over the last 31 years is to remind the world that our kith and kin in Punjab are not allowed to do so. For example, in theory, just the mere shouting out loud of 'Khalistan Zindabad' can legitimaty get you killed because according to Indian Law it is enough to get you arrested (where torture is accepted and tolerated), enough to get you tried for sedition and one of the optional punishments for the crime of sedition in India is death. So this is the type of things we demonstrate about in the west. We remind people how this so called free country does not allow freedom of thought. How this so called democracy, according to international human rights organisations, rounded up and killed hundreds of thousands of Sikhs over the course of 1984-1990 for doing the exact same thing we're doing now : protesting and articulating their feelings. So basically what you're saying is this: No one should ever say 'an oven is too hot' while standing outside the oven. You think it is only reasonable and sane to actually be inside the oven if one wants to tell others how hot it is !!!

No. I don't see you as weak of body. I see you as weak of mind. Extremely weak of mind in that you cannot see how the protest turned "violent" tag only came about because of that one policeman that had blood coming out of his head and how that, in actual fact, only came about because a trigger happy sub-standard police force where waving thier batons about so much like demented hooligans they hit own colleauge on the head and face with one. If you still can't see the true picture then I agree with you....there is no point us having a conversation. You are blind way beyond a simple cataract proceddure. You are a man that has given yourself a username way beyond it's definiion. And that brings us back to your blindness. And that brings us back to how, on the internet (in contrast to the streets where Sikhs stand up for Sikhi) someone can willy nilly, without ryhme or reason, give himself the username of 'Akal Warrior'.

Good. We're agreed then. Change it quickly. There is no "version" of Sikhi. There is only Sikhi. We all look at things differently. For instance your parents may look at you as a good Sikh boy whereas I see you as a weak mouse. So, you see, you celebrate this "looking at things differently" dichotomy only when it suits you and your purpose. And what "bandwagon" is this, oh immortal warrior ? We, as Sikhs, are on this earth for, if nothing else, to protect the dignity and integrity of our living Guru who, as our 10th master proclaimed, is not physically with us to protect himself. So, to protect him is the very essence of the Sikh's existence so I don't understand what makes you think a Sikh that a Sikh that excercised his or her rights as a British citizen to protest outside the Embassy that enslaves us, massacres us and rapes us is "jumping on a bandwagon" ???? As for your other points, our entire history as a country without firearms and police that do not carry firearms has been based on the premise that a police force exists by the consent of the citizens. There are police in every country in the world now. Police in every city. But lets not ever forget that the world's first police force was in London. We still say we've been 'kopped' when we've been arrested without thinking how the rest of the world took that expression of ours many years later and they saw what was happening in London, also started a thing called 'police' and called them 'cops'. So thats history. But history is extrisicaly connected with the present. Police forces around the world look up to where it all began. They (the police) exist because we allow them to exist (hence policing by consent). We allow them to exist purely because we expect them to conform to certain standards. So, lets put ourselves in the shoes of the Met: A community that is officialy Britian' most law abiding community give them advance notice they will hold a protest (as is their democratic right to do so) This community has been holding demonstrations at that same spot for 31 years and there has never ever been any trouble. You (the Police) go to the spot where this community that has held a protest for 31 years, gave advance notice, and has never caused a problem. You (the police) see them sitting and praying. You (the police) see fit to put riot gear on your officers an wave batons. You (the police) send in for riot horses. You (the police) see fit to kettle this group including women, old women and children, for praying. (for those of you that don;t know what 'kettling' is it is something that police forces around the world have learn't from London and to be used to use un-democratic principles in democratic countries....It is when the Police deliberately set out to break the heart and soul of a protesting people by surrounding them from all sides, inprisoning them in a tiny contained space and breaking their spirit by denying them any hope of esacpe for several hours) Old auntia. Young bacheh. All kettled because someone at the Met made the decision to kettle. You (the police) after the event decide to tell the media that the reason to kettle was to stop 'disruption to traffic' without any sense of irony of your actions created a 17000% increase in traffic problems. So, Akal Warrior, just how big is this box that you think you think outside of ??????????

For someone with the username 'Akal Warrior' I gotta say he's really not very immortal warrior at all. Could there be a more non-fitting username ? May I politely suggest he changes it to 'Mortal Mouse' ?

Er....something to be proud of or something to be ashamed of ???? Nah. I ain't talking about that 'rice' gene thingy. I'm talking about something different. Nothing to do with orientals and rice. This is more to do with something we as a race have in common with australian aborigines for example. We are lacking certain enzymes in our body that northern European white people have. So, although we 'think' we can out-drink them the fact is we cannnot without it seriously affecting our mental and physical well-being.

Exactly. They are pure racist filth now and they always have been. Always will be. 2 years after my mum fought the 3000 of them that came to protect the racists my cousin was among those fighting the 2000 of them that cme to protect the skinheads. Let me tell you what that filth of an organisation did to the Sikh youth of Southall that day in 1981; They took hundreds of Sikh youths like my cousin to the back yard of Norwood Green police station and beat them to a bloody pulp. But still this filth of an organisation wasn't finished. It then loaded up a couple of SPG buses with the youths, drove them down the M3 and just dumped them on the hard shoulder somewhere near Basingstoke. Trust me, we have alot of previous with them. Every single one of them are scum.

The met ARE racist filth. Plain and simple. What we need to do now is the following: Each and everyone of us need to excercise our rights under the Freedom of Informaton Act. We need to bombard this institutionaly racist organisation that is clearly not for for purpose (i.e an overwhelmingly white police force policing a non-white city) with requests in our hundreds of thousands. Let them know that we will not take what they did lying down ensuring they think twice before deploying such tactics again. They have to, by Law, look into and respond to / answer every question we put to them under the Act. Every Sikh in the land should send in requests asking many many questions, such as: What is the name of the Gold Commander who was put in charge of this policing operation ? (I did a similar request when the West Midlands Police were racist towards some Birmingham Skh protestors a couple of years ago and I discovered the Gold Commander who ordered the police to beat the Sikhs was an India supporting mona from a Sikh background) How and why was a decision made today to charge at the Sikhs with horses when Sikhs have been demonstrating at that same spot for exactly 31 years without incident They MUST, by Law, answer your questions if you make it clear you are asking as per your rights under the Act. Bombard these filthy racist pigs with a million requests. Let them regret the day they decided to turn Britan's most law abiding community aganst them.

Dirty, filthy Met pigs. Pure racist scum. Nothing has changed. Our mothers and fathers fought these racist bastards in 1979, and our brothers and sisters fight them today. Proud of my mum and just as proud of the brothers and sisters today. 1979: 2015:

Forget the song. Akaala at his best was on Frankie Boyle's Election Special earlier this year. One of the best pieces of television in years. However, I have to tell those of you that think he has anti-islamic credentials that he most certainly does not. The man is a champion of the rights of all non-white people and as such has been an outspoken champion of defending Muslims from anti-islamic hate. Anyway, here he is at his very best on Frankie Boyle's show. Particularly love the way he points out the truth about Australia. How our government is citing their 'points based' system as the example to follow in immigration. Akaala points out how nobody should ever be following Australia as an example for anything non-racist when only 30 years ago Australia didn't even recognise the black man as a human being. According to Australia, his rights were to be found under the Flora and Fauna Act !!!

Thats not true. They don't marry their 'relatives' "just to keep caste", the aroras (the Afghan Sikhs one finds in Southall etc) and to some extent the Khatris, marry their first cousins, i.e chache's son, pooahs daughter etc, because it is part of their culture to do so. It they simply wanted to "keep caste" then obviously they would marry their daughter off to another family of the same caste. No. They do it because they like doing it and see nothing wrong with it. Its up to the rest of us to be brave enough to point out the sickening and obscene insestous nature of it without the fear of being labelled 'casteist' by some Sikhs.

So..........are you a SIKH or are you an INDIAN ????????????? How you see both the future and history is they key to answering this question.

Well Inderjit the reason I said it 1 or 2 days ago was because I could see what was going to happen. The signs, 2 days ago, all pointed to some major pinnochio level lies coming our way. I just wanted us to be ready for them this time around because for the last 30 years that trodden on us like ants and then lied about it but all we've ever responded with is males marching, shouting a slogan, and moving their right arm in an upward and forward motion. This response has failed us miserably for the last 30 years. My only hope was that this time we could foresee the lies Baadal was about to spin and be ready for them with eye-catching media ready responses.

I agree with you wholeheartedly with most of what you said. I somewhat agree with you that the bright colours look gay but I can't be arsed to explain to them the history behind it because quite frankly I don't care enough about bhangra to make the effort. But I see your point about everything and would add that we're all being taken for a ride. I'm having to watch my rural culture being raped right in front of my eyes and both you and me are having to sit back and watch as 'producers', 'money makers' and 'boolywood' take our culture and reduce us to nothing more than alcohol drinking jokes and our people lap it up. Much as it pains me to say it I would also agree with you on another point, and that is about the vulgar lyrics of this modern bhangra music we have today. I'm not a fan of bhangra at all. Never have been. I have my favourite musical forms (besides the obvious shabads, simran and gurbani) and among my second favourites are traditional Punjabi folk songs. To get that fix I have 2 choices: Either listen to Pakistani Punjabi folk music or keep in touch with what some British born Bhatra Sikhs sing. I've met alot of bhatras when I've gone east to places like East Ham and Ilford, Manchester and Southampton and I have to say that its wonderfull to see how they are keeping the traditional folk songs alive, especially by singing with traditional folk voices. But thats neither here nor there. The point is that if Punjabi virsa is our maa.....then we have to admit that our maa is being raped right in front of our eyes. Our glorious history...our glorious virsa...is being turned, by producers and promoters, into nothing more than an eye into a world of drinking sharab. Thats sad. But sadder still is that our people forget the truth and buy into it. Sadder even still is, as the OP alluded to, that it leads to the breakdown and vexation of Sikh families.