JagsawSingh

The underlying assumption that is present in every single 'sardar joke' is that sardars...i,e all Sikhs....are very unintelligent people. Dim witted people. People with the brains of a child. Simpletons only slightly more intelligent than inpatients in a lunatic asylum. Although, lets remember that the Indians (Hindus) like to cover all angles on that last one because if needed, they can and do easily manipulate the 'joke' slightly to make the sardar (Sikh) an actual lunatic (the 12 o'clock joke). Now, can you explain to us all why you keep on posting videos of comedians making harmless jokes that do in no way deliberately set out to target and spread hate about a certain religion and its adherents ? You're showing yourself to be a first class muppet Quantivius. If I were you I'd stop and re-think things a bit.

You have a very little brain Quantivius. I tell you that it is only Jews that make Jewish jokes (as self-effacing humour is one of their trademark survival instincts) and you try and counter that statement by providing me with a list of Jewish comedians making jewish jokes :biggrin2: Are you for real ? Seriously now, the very simple thing that you don't understand is that it is OK for example, for Dermot Moran to make Irish jokes because he is part of that culture but it is not OK for Michael McIntyre to do so because if he did it would originate from a perpective of racism, history of colonialism and hurtful hate. It is OK, for example, for Dave Chappele to make very funny jokes about blacks because he is black. But it is not OK for a white comedian to say the same things because it would come fom a perspective of racism, history and hurtful hate. In exactly the same way it is not OK for the people that deny our existence, deny our freedom, routinely go on genocidal massacre sprees against us, arrest at will, torture us at will, hang us at will...to make us the target for their 'jokes'.....i.e their 'national joke'. The fact that you cannot understand this makes me feel very very sorry for you.

99.9% of the people that fly into Punjab want to quickly, after they land, make their way to their villages in Jalandhar, Ludhiana and Moga. What planet is Badal living in if he thinks Chandigarh is an attractive option for them ? The answer is mine and yours benefit is not his concern. Punjabi people will pay for an airport for the benefit of the people of Haryana and Himachel.

What year are you living in Quantavius ? It is now 2015 and it stopped being acceptable to make Irish jokes over 20 years ago. If someone on TV now, for example, made such a joke it would be deemed 'racist' and that someone would never ever be allowed to appear on TV again. It became unnaceptable because the Irish, for example, articulated well how they found the jokes offensive, hurtfull and hateful. What world are you living in Quantavius ? The only people allowed to make jewish jokes are the Jews themselves and they would get incredibly upset and angry if a non-jew made one. Thats why it is never ever acceptable in polite society and mainstream society to make jokes against the Jews. If one does, it is seen as a hate crime and there are always serious consequences.

Thats a very good sakhi ms514, but I think it differs from the abrahamic proverb as it does not clarify the fact that generally, the rich person is spiritually poorer than the poor person. Growing up, I used to put the issue within our community down to the fact that the older generation (from India) had been brought up heavily influenced by the bhakti tradition where the relationship with God is seen as a very personal one....where personal wishes for material things are granted through prayer. I used to think that the younger western born Sikhs were all like me, where my relationship with God is seen more in terms of what I can do for others and never daring to ask for things in prayers. I've always felt that it would be obscene for me to ask waheguru to grant me something when the truth is he has every right to take things away from me bearing in mind how he has already given me so much. He's given me arms, legs, health, food and a roof over my head. These are things that so much of humanity doesn't have so how disgusting would it be for me to pray for more ? I was wrong however, for thinking that the western born Gursikhs around me think like me. Generally, they think exactly the same way as their parents. Alot of the blame for this must like with the multitude of jathas and parcharaks around these days. In a way of drawing patit Sikhs towards the fold they actively tell them how prayers can make their personal wishes come true and you'll be amazed just how many of today's younger generation amritdharis have become so on the foundation of such selfish principles. As I sit with these people as part of the sangat, i.e my brothers and sisters, the whole thing really does have a negative impact on my own spiritual well-being.

What ????? :blink2: Why on earth did you address that post to me ? I don't. Learn to read. What I did was to tell the OP that this thread and it's silly subject matter will reinforce our enemies' wrong belief that we have aversion towards our girls marrying black and white men. I don't. Why would I ? I'm a Sikh and Sikhs have complete and utter gender equality. Like I said before, learn to read and understand simple things in the English language before posting. The only place anyone has reacted to this situation in this way is in your own mind. You've imagined something yourself and then felt strongly enough to get on the internet and rebuke someone else for something that only happened in your own head. I'M confusing ???? :omg: Which is exactly the point I made in my previous message that both 'angered' and 'confused' you. Seriously, I still don't get why you addressed your message to me.

A word of advice: If your'e a blighty bandar like me, who thinks he (and indeed does) speak a wonderfull colloqial rustic rural punjabi NEVER EVER, when conversing with anyone actually from Punjab, try and explain the old/new Testament parable of it "being easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven". I tried. I failed. I tried because I was trying to articulate how we are valuing the rich man more than the poor man who is rich in his heart. So I translated the parable. They all looked at me like I was a retarded simpleton and started asking questions (in Punjabi) like "what kind of mental person would try and thread a camel through the eye of a needle?" and "how the hell can someone be so stupid that he thinks picking up a camel is possible?". It went on and on. I quickly regretted even attempting to translate this parable into Punjabi but even then the besti was not complete. They kept going. One minute, in their eyes, I was a man of respect "doing Phd" and the next, simply by embarking on this terrible terrible mistake, I lost all respect. I became nothing more than a man that thinks it is possible to pick a camel up and poke it through a tiny needle. Thats the moral of that story. Punjabis will never get to the bit about it being difficult for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven. You will lose all Punjabis (and your respect) the very moment you mention a 'camel' and trying to literaly thread it through a tiny hole. So, because I care for you all as my brothers and sisters I advise you all to never make the same mistake I made. NEVER EVER try and relate the camel, eye of the needle and the the rich man scenario to a Sikh from Punjab. For your own sake's don't do it. But, seeing how most of you are like me (not with the same thinking and mindset but with the similar western born mindset) I feel you'll be able to at understand what I was trying to get at. The point I was going to make to them, but never got to that stage because I became an epic fool, is that we respect the rich man too much. I wanted to explain the deeper meaning of the parable, articulating the fact that the rich man fails to reach the kingdom of heaven not because he is rich but because the richness massages his ego and false pride. I remember when I was a teenager having a similar conversation with an auntie (amritdhari) and I'll never forget how she quoted the fact that Sri Gobind Singh Ji was so rich, had the finest clothes and the finest horses...ie the finest things....that the Sikhs that have those things are closer to HIM. This left me despondent but I quickly realised that the mentality of the average Sikh from Punjab is to think like this. Now here's the thing. I got married in Punjab. My one and only condition for marriage was the girl should be from a Sikh family that is not rich, has suffered from the Indian progroms and would benefit from me. It gave me a sense of worth. It gave me purpose, and I thank the Lord for giving me the opportunity for doing this. But, I look around at all the rich boys and girls from really really Gursikh chardi-kala families in the UK and Canada...western born...and active in standing up for Sikh rights...and I can't help thinking how come exactly 0% of them has married a beautifull Singhni from the widows colony in Delhi ? How come, even though 99% of the beautifull daughters of Sri Gobind Singh Ji, i.e daughters and grandaughters of the shaheeds of 1984 onwards, are living in poverty and suffering, exactly 0% of our UK and Canada born Gursikhs have married any of them ? Basic Maths : 100% of them preaching about the suffering of the family of the shaheeds yet 0% of them marrying one of them thus helping them. Advanced Maths : I've never been any good at Maths but in this instance even I, who is rubbish at Maths can confidently say it doesn't add up. But every maths equation must have answer. The answer is money, greed and riches. But, as the thread implies, we Sikhs of Punjabi heritage have an inherent problem that goes beyond basic maths problems. Punjab and Sikhi's biggest problem is the way that the Badal clan 'keeps it in the family' and has kept Punjab on it's knees by accumulating power by marriage. So what do these western born anti-Badal Gursikhs teach us when they embark on their marraige liasons with other rich Gursikh familes, as they always do ? The answer is that you should never attempt to explain how it is easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven.

Yes thats them. As someone else here pointed out "Shere Punjab started off with good intentions and did a lot of good work. But later became involved in drug dealing, protection scams, intimidation, etc.." , as radio stations often do.

question and let me tell you why. First of all you give your thread a title that suggess the current problem doing the rounds in the media is because we have an aversion to 'our girls marrying white and black men'. Our intellectuals have spent the past week trying to teach our enemies, and the media who get their stories from our enemies, that they have got it wrong, i.e we are not racists. Our issue and argument is purely that such marriages must take place in a Registry Office and not in a place of worship where sacred vows are made in front of our living Guru, i.e the lie and sham that both bride and groom are Sikhs. But tell me, how the hell we gonna get our point across to the media when people like you within don't even understand the issue ? :surrender: I Mean seriously, just what kind of a no-brain dufus are you 'sikhingthertruth' that made you make a thread like this ? You look at 4 days worth of threads and messages on this forum explaining the Sikh stance on this issue and yet on the 5th you still decide to go down this route ? The mind boggles as to what it would take to make you understand a simple point.

I think you missed the point the OP made about him having a hunch that Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji might be taken to the Banqueting Hall. Don't fall into the trap that people like Sunny Hundal and Bobby Friction set for us. Nobody cares who marries who. Its nobody's business and we couldn't care less. The only thing we say is don't perform shams, lies and disrespect to our living Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Therefore, have these marriages where they belong, i.e the Registry Office.

good question Big tera. Over the years, we have had proof that that the media (especially the BBC) have used the negative things we have said here on this forum as ammunition. They have even quoted us as such. Thus they have been defeating us with the sharpest sword of all : Words. Now, although I can't say for certain the positive things we say will be used and noticed by them and, after all, the media by nature look for juicy negatve points...and they haven't up until now......we have to at least be of the opinion and the mindset that we should always arm ourselves with the greatest and sharpest of arguments.

Ah, the seperation of church and state. The English system was (and still is.... just as much as it was in medieval times) flawed. So the Americans, once they gained independance from England, went out of their way to ensure they had a system where the President was held to extra....ultra-excessive ....account for his actions. So, while the English and the rest of the Europeans have been able to ensure no homeless in the streets, no poor unable to feed their children, no poor unbale to recieve healthcare, no guns in the hands of its citizens etc the Americans, since then, have been stuck in an historical rut where they they think their legislature is fighting against some 17th century King. In terms of democracy then, in an historical academic sense, the American idea is not a bad thing at all. But in reality a system where a seemingly left leaning President like Barak Obama has not been able to pass through and keep a single one of his pre-election promises. I know internationally we love him but we have to remember the fact that we love him for the hope and policies he stood for whereas the Americans know him for the fact that he didn't / wasn't able to, keep any of those hopes and promises. Thus, the system is flawed for the modern age. Thus whether the presidential hopefuls are to the left of Trotsky or to the right of genghis khan they will still never be able to keep any of their hopes, vows or promises unless it is in keeping with what the right wing, and the media they control, call 'American Values'. Thus, always remember that an international debate about potential American presidential candidates will always boil down to who is worst; Idi Amin or Pol Put ?

Bobby Friction is Hounsow (west london) born and bred. Agree. You know this thing, when our brothers and sisters in India are subjected to serious felonly crimes such as Hate and Murder and our brothers and sisters out there respond by claiming these vicious crimes "hurt the sentiments of the Sikh community" ? Well, everytime I hear that I feel like getting hold of my brothers and sisters out there and shaking them by the neck. I feel like telling them how minor, childish and non-serious "hurting the sentiments of the community" sounds. Bobby Friction did not hurt our feelings. Bobby Friction is a terrorist. The definition of terrorism is intimidating people into accepting your view. Bobby Friction, by deberately setting out to describe Sikhs as "Taliban", "Extremists" and 'thugs' even though Christians, Jews and Muslims have exactly the same rules regarding marriage inside their places of worship, is using Terrorism tactics. Terrorism is one thing. Hurting our feelings is : 'oooh....i'm just a little kid.....and those bigger kids have just hurt my feelings....oooh...please mr policeman....please stop those bigger kids from hurting my feelings'. See the difference? Now let Bobby Friction and the BBC know.

OK, so let me get this straight: Even if this man stood on a platform of closing down libraries, cutting expenditure on health and education, corporal punishment, exterminating the poor, spending billions on wars in Iraq, gassing Jews, banning breasfeeding and banning cycle lanes you'd still vote for him purely because he has a long beard and dastar ?????

Thats not his fault. He's just a victim of geography.

First of all, DTF, I've already explained succintly on this very thread how one is not allowed to have a wedding in a Christian Church without first confirming one's Christianity. Indeed, the Pope, eastern Orthodox Priests and even our own Anglican / Episcopalan Archbishop of Canterbury quotes Mark 10.8 in justifying this ban: 'Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness?' i.e the Christian Church sees you and me as 'lawless' people...i.e unrighteous people simply because we are Sikhs and thus would not allow us to marry in a Church. Our Sikhi scriptures (Gurbani) however, are full of nothing but love....and thats the difference between Sikhi and the other faiths in that the other faiths are full of fear of a vengefull god whereas Sikhi is full of love for a loving God. But where's Bobby Friction's speech about how all Christians are "thugs" for not letting a Sikh get married in a Church ? Where's Bobby Friction's or Sunny Hundals's news article about the Archbishop of Canterbury being a member of the "Taliban" for adhering to what their faith says ? If Bobby Friction is a DJ how come his mouth gets numb when these issues come up? If Sunny Hundal is a journalist who, by definition, should research his subject matter, how come he loses his pen when the issue of Jews, Christians and Muslims come up And lets not even go deep into a conversation about the Jews because before letting him marry a Jewish girl in a Synagogue they will not only ask the groom to first confirm that he is indeed Jewish they will also do a background check ensuring his father and grandfather were also Jewish. So, never mind letting a Jewish girl marry a jamaican in a Synangogue the Jews won't even be satisfied if the jamaican says he's a Jew and so was his mother. The Synagogue will embark on a 3 generation backgound check before it'll allow her to have a Jewish wedding the synagogue. i.e even though the Jamaican was born a Jew and has always practices Judaism they will insist he proves it before they sanction a wedding in the Synagogue. Otherwise, as they are are nice poeple like us, they will tell them both to get married in a Registry Office because taking Jahova's name in vain is not a light hearted photo opportunity matter. And remember DTF, in terms of your argument about numbers and assimilation etc....the problem is 1000% worse among the Jews than it is for us. So where's Bobby Friction's diatribe describing all Jewish people as "Taliban" and "thugs" ? Where's Sunny Hundal's voice when it comes to the Christians and Jews who are even stricter than us when it comes to marriage in a place of worship ? Why do their loud lion like voices suddenly get so weak and timid when it comes to questions like this ? The answer is because these questions are never allowed to be put to them and the reason is because people like you distort this simple issue into a another wider irrelevant issue that both Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal find easy to answer. Now, the last time I told you Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal are Terrorists you replied with a 'LOL', indicating your leart-hearted response to this assertion. But I'll put it to you again : The very definition of a Terrorist is one who uses intimidation and bullying to get his way. Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal are trying to terrorise us...bully us...intimidate us....by calling us "thugs" and the "Taliban" for having a policy that is actually far less severe than the Jews and Christians. That is terrorism pure and simple.

Isreal v Palestine - Which side would Sri Gobind Singh ji be on if he were here today ? Simple: Sri Gobind Singh Ji would stand by the Jewish people's right to exist in their own land and even fight for that right; Isreal..... while, at the same time, not only would he remind the Isrealis that they've become like the Nazis that de-humanized them he would take his sword and stand by the Palestinians that are being de-humanized by the Isrealis. Truth AND Justice is the norm HE set for himself and WE should follow him if we want to wear HIS saroop.

This supposed 'role model'; Humble the poet. I'm sure, at the end of day, he's a pretty nice bloke. And in this world full of not so nice blokes its nice to find nice ones. But.....he wears the saroop of Sri Gobind Singh Ji so shouldn't we be expecting more from him ? Shouldn't he be mature and intellectual enough to see how those that are still learning look to him for inspiration and to set the right example ? As a man I and we can't fault him. He's a good man. I've no reason to say and think otherwise. But as a Singh who wears HIS saroop we have to say he is not only confused and naive but also damnright insulting, especially given the recent fiasco where he insulting none other than Sri Gobind Singh Ji on facebook and then quickly deleted what he had said. And then you have to think....even monas or people like Bobby Friction wouldn't sink so low so are we showing this man too much respect simply because he looks the part ? As a man then, he is as good and as flawed as any of us. But as a 'role model' he is definately not someone who should even appear on the list.

^ Him....DTF.. Blame him !!! This week, when this issue is discussed to death in the media and radio etc and the whole world sees us Sikhs as racist intolerants remember how it was DTF that deliberately ensured the debate the media would get our side of the story from was rigged in such a way that our simple side of the story was not allowed to be articulated....i.e the media would never hear it. Remember the part DTF had in that. Seriously now DTF, re-read this whole thread from beginning to end. Its clear you've been on some personal mission to ensure Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal win the argument. I don't know what your motive for that has been, it could be a personal family matter it could be political....but know this: This debate could have armed us Sikhs in the upcoming media and radio debates or it could have armed Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal. You've gone out of your way here to quickly supress all sides of the Sikh's story and arm Sunny and Bobby. I know what you're up to here.

Such a simple issue. So easy to explain to the mainstream media. But here we are. 12 pages long (so far) and all we've done is confused the media. They'll come away from this still not understanding our very basic easy to understand point and so they'll go to Sunny Hundal and Bobby Friction for an explanation and they will get one there. Are we really that easy to manipulate ? I mean think about it: It started with mainstream media articles about us protecting the honour of Guru ji in the Gurdwara, the media distorted it in order to portray us as racists and intolerants who don't want and won't allow mixed marriages full stop and then, before you know it the media - Sunny Hundal and Bobby Friction have got us wrapped round their finger so much and so easily they've got us making messages in this debate where we articulate that we don't like our girls marrying white and black fellas. i.e the exact same kind of messages one finds on the right wing hitler worshipping websites. So, the media, Sunny Hundal and Bobby Friction now have exactly the ammunition they were looking for in the debate. Their argument was that Sikh 'thugs' are pretending to protect the honour of the Guru but really its just a front for stopping sikh girls marrying white and black men. You people, here on this thread, are so stupid you've actually armed your enemies. Well done you muppets. and I'm talking mosly to DTF here as its clear he or she has some personal family loyalty thing about standing up for mixed marriages in the Gurdwara....seems to be on a personal mission to ensure Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal win the debate.

Shut the hell up all of you (especially DTF) with your nonsense talk abut 'dilution' 'mixed faith' etc. All of this has absolutely nothing to do with the issue and just plays into the hands of the mainstream media (with the help of Sunny Hundal and Bobby Friction) who want to portray this as an issue where Sikhs are shown as racists who don't want their children marrying white people. The kind of things you people, thanks to DTF, ae talking about blatantly plays into their hands. You all need shut up with that talk and be very clear on this simple issue, so that that they can hear and understand it very well: We, the Sikhs, couldn't care less if a Sikh man or girl marries a Nigerian, Pole, Englishman or Latvian etc. Its none of our business. The personal life of the individual is the business of the individual. We never give them lectures about their proposed marriage and we never try and stop their marriage. Its their own personal life and we respect that. What we say to them is; their wedding should take place in a secular setting because obviously the religious setting and its vows in front of our living Guru, make it clear that you're both Sikhs. Obviously then, as that would be a lie, and neither we nor you would want to blatantly insult Guru ji like this, a seular setting like a town hall is the right place for you to get married, and we hope you're both really happy together. That ^ is what we're saying. That ^ is what we need the mainstream media to understand because right now we're not explaining anything to them with any clarity while Sunny Hundal and Bobby Friction are,... from the inside. What we don't need....and what is of absolutely no benefit whatsoever to us in this issue.....is the nonsense conversation thats been going on here. Stop it. Concentrate on explaining the issue with clarity to the media and, because of its simplicity, they will understand.

I may have shortcomings but there's nothing short about my comings. The fact that I have children is testament to that. I'm guessing because, unlike my example of the intellectually understanding Latvian lady, the 'Sikh' women involved are the ones that are emotionally blackmailing mummy and daddy into bankrolling a £100,000 wedding with a lavish lengha for the marriage and wonderfull photo opportunities. I'm not 'lusting' after anyone. I'm simply pointing out how she was quite stunning and Latvian girls generally are. Its got nothing to do with the story but I mentioned it because as I was writing about it I remembered how absolutely stunning she was. Nothing wrong with that. Me nah a batty man. Hounslow Singh Sabha. A Gurdwara where the committee and president absolutely love those type of marriages and care more about money but me, and people like me, step up and do our bit.

Yeah agree with everyone. You'll have a great time. Not actually been myself, but have been to Paris Disney Land and had no issues here. In fact, got more funny looks at Wonderland in Jalandhar. Wonderland is quite sureal because they have this massive paddling pool there and its absolutely full of Sikh families FULLY CLOTHED in the water. Fully Clothed !!!!!!! So, when you're faced with the choice of either Wonderland or Disney World, always take Disney World and always, as I'm sure you will, have a great time.

Wouldn't you want to know where he stands on issues such as the welfare state, free healthcare, foreign policy, education, care of the elderly, public services etc first ????

You misunderstood my point DTF. The Southall Gurdwara President Mr Sumra, Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal etc are the Terrorists for they are trying to intimidate Sikhs into standing in front Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and blatantly lying. Their intimidation / terrorism modus operandi is to de-humanise the Sikhs by calling them names such as "thugs" and "taliban". Such a tactic is the very definition of terrorism. Thus, Bobby Friction and Sunny Hundal are by very definition terrorists, and you are supporting terrorists.